Chip Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I only let Shadow and Storm off lead to play in an enclosed area but they have stay sessions off lead in parks,town and such and just to add to the above posts, when I clocked my Stormy, the highest she hit is 26mph running along side the bike:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreyRust Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 It is true that there are rare individuals that have good recall, but the entire point is that if you are looking for a dog to accompany you off-leash and be obedient with recall anywhere, it is not wise to look at getting a husky, because as a breed they are notoriously unreliable and prone to running for the joy of it, or cannot be distracted from something that provokes chasing. They are bred to be independent of thought and self-reliant of deed. I'll reiterate my theory that virtually every husky that owners brag about as having good recall is under the age of 2 years, and that by the time they turn 3 they'll have become unreliable. Some husky owners have found out the hard way how unreliable even trusted dogs can be. Poor Al lives in the country, where his husky was relatively safe from hazards like traffic, other dogs and people who may pick her up. His dog was good off-leash, and he was sure that he had a lucky exception. His dog was reliable, until the one day she wasn't. Unfortunately, he posted this in November, and hasn't seen her since... http://www.husky-owners.com/forum/threads/im-aggravated-i-know-better.32650/ But please remember that it is just a theory and retain an open mind. I wouldn't be surprised if your right but that wasn't really my point. My point was that saying they can't be off lead period, leads to more problems; Sure, it keeps people from getting dogs and setting them loose without knowing better, but it also spreads ignorance about the breed and the ends do not justify the means. It has MUCH more to do with the owner than the dog; In fact I retain my theory that virtually any dog can be trained to do anything if the owner knows what s/he's doing, but that is the key point and they MUST know how dogs think and must understand their individual dog; Otherwise it's like trying to tell a wall to paint itself. The thing that I learned about training huskies is that the reward has to outweigh the prey-drive. You _cannot_ train them reliably with conventional doggie treats because they have such a strong prey-drive, it's a reward in itself. I believe it's much more people's misunderstanding of canine pyschology that produces very few huskies that are reliable off-lead. People don't really seem to think outside of the box when training animals and that leads to bad behaviour in huskies when they try and treat them like golden retrievers or labs. Same is true for border collies or any "advanced" breed. The most important key to training a husky is using the right reward. If you can find something more rewarding than their prey-drive then you will be able to train them to recall from chasing a rabbit, but this is very hard to do obviously (and varies from individual dog). A good trainer would use their prey-drive to train them. Letting them chase a squirrel to reward them; It would take significantly more effort and understanding, the reliability is relative to how well you did and is still a grey area to me but a competent trainer should be able to do it. I would certainly be less likely to let a husky off lead than a GSD, but I would never let either off lead without adequate recall training with heavy distractions, without that I wouldn't even think about it... If somebody put a husky in my care would I let them off lead? I would have a broken arm before I would let that dog get loose; If I had the dog for a long time __maybe__. If I owned a husky for years would I let it off lead? Depends... So, __maybe__. Also I should mention this to anyone that would be (insane enough to be(?)) doing this, the reason why a 'reliable' dog can go rogue very quickly is because there is a HUGE difference from training inside your cosy house and trying to apply it in the field. It's just straight up idiotic to assume that a dog the does something in a low distraction environment will do the same thing with little critters runnin' around. While it might not make as much difference to us, it's a completely different world to them. and even if you have them trained reliably in an envirnment with lots of distractions, a new type of distraction (The "Golden Raccoon" shall we say) that again, we don't notice could pop up make a reliable dog not. So it's important to train for a very long time to raise the odds of training against all kinds of distractions. Even then, it's a risk. It works for some and for some it doesn't. I just believe people should be given the facts and that they should choose for themselves rather than somebody seeing that it doesn't work for them and then spreading it to other people whom it may work for like it's the gospel and then verbally burning anyone at the stake whom doesn't believe (I'm not necessarily accusing you of this, I'm just stating how I feel). ~Trey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Povodny Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 It is true that there are rare individuals that have good recall, but the entire point is that if you are looking for a dog to accompany you off-leash and be obedient with recall anywhere, it is not wise to look at getting a husky, because as a breed they are notoriously unreliable and prone to running for the joy of it, or cannot be distracted from something that provokes chasing. They are bred to be independent of thought and self-reliant of deed. I'll reiterate my theory that virtually every husky that owners brag about as having good recall is under the age of 2 years, and that by the time they turn 3 they'll have become unreliable. Some husky owners have found out the hard way how unreliable even trusted dogs can be. Poor Al lives in the country, where his husky was relatively safe from hazards like traffic, other dogs and people who may pick her up. His dog was good off-leash, and he was sure that he had a lucky exception. His dog was reliable, until the one day she wasn't. Unfortunately, he posted this in November, and hasn't seen her since... http://www.husky-owners.com/forum/threads/im-aggravated-i-know-better.32650/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Povodny Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 It is true that there are rare individuals that have good recall, but the entire point is that if you are looking for a dog to accompany you off-leash and be obedient with recall anywhere, it is not wise to look at getting a husky, because as a breed they are notoriously unreliable and prone to running for the joy of it, or cannot be distracted from something that provokes chasing. They are bred to be independent of thought and self-reliant of deed. I'll reiterate my theory that virtually every husky that owners brag about as having good recall is under the age of 2 years, and that by the time they turn 3 they'll have become unreliable. Some husky owners have found out the hard way how unreliable even trusted dogs can be. Poor Al lives in the country, where his husky was relatively safe from hazards like traffic, other dogs and people who may pick her up. His dog was good off-leash, and he was sure that he had a lucky exception. His dog was reliable, until the one day she wasn't. Unfortunately, he posted this in November, and hasn't seen her since... http://www.husky-owners.com/forum/threads/im-aggravated-i-know-better.32650/ I must know the exception to the rule, a friend of mine has two males brothers from the same parents but different litters. They're now 9 and 10 years old and have always been exercised off lead. They never attempt to go on the furniture, never counter surf, leave the room when you eat and know its bed time when the television gets switched off at night lol. They are a fantastic pair of boyz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 But please remember that it is just a theory and retain an open mind. I wouldn't be surprised if your right but that wasn't really my point. My point was that saying they can't be off lead period, leads to more problems; Sure, it keeps people from getting dogs and setting them loose without knowing better, but it also spreads ignorance about the breed and the ends do not justify the means. It has MUCH more to do with the owner than the dog; In fact I retain my theory that virtually any dog can be trained to do anything if the owner knows what s/he's doing, but that is the key point and they MUST know how dogs think and must understand their individual dog; Otherwise it's like trying to tell a wall to paint itself. The thing that I learned about training huskies is that the reward has to outweigh the prey-drive. You _cannot_ train them reliably with conventional doggie treats because they have such a strong prey-drive, it's a reward in itself. I believe it's much more people's misunderstanding of canine pyschology that produces very few huskies that are reliable off-lead. People don't really seem to think outside of the box when training animals and that leads to bad behaviour in huskies when they try and treat them like golden retrievers or labs. Same is true for border collies or any "advanced" breed. The most important key to training a husky is using the right reward. If you can find something more rewarding than their prey-drive then you will be able to train them to recall from chasing a rabbit, but this is very hard to do obviously (and varies from individual dog). A good trainer would use their prey-drive to train them. Letting them chase a squirrel to reward them; It would take significantly more effort and understanding, the reliability is relative to how well you did and is still a grey area to me but a competent trainer should be able to do it. I would certainly be less likely to let a husky off lead than a GSD, but I would never let either off lead without adequate recall training with heavy distractions, without that I wouldn't even think about it... IMO - huskies can be great off lead - however I agree that it is 100% about the handler than it is about the dog. If someone took nikki to a park and didn't know exactly how to read him, his commands, what to look out for - he'd walk all over them and probably take off. Huskies are definitely not labs... that being said - if someone does put in the time, seeing a reliable husky offleash is amazing. You are correct about the prey drive though - this is one of the reasons why I leave the e-collar on after 8 years. If for some reason we are doing excersizes and a rabbit lathered in BBQ sauce comes along, the e-collar is the only way to ensure my boy wont chase that tasty morsel to the state line. Having said that, I think the last time I actually pressed the button on the ecollar receiver was over a year ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 But please remember that it is just a theory and retain an open mind. I wouldn't be surprised if your right but that wasn't really my point. My point was that saying they can't be off lead period, leads to more problems; Sure, it keeps people from getting dogs and setting them loose without knowing better, but it also spreads ignorance about the breed and the ends do not justify the means. It has MUCH more to do with the owner than the dog; In fact I retain my theory that virtually any dog can be trained to do anything if the owner knows what s/he's doing, but that is the key point and they MUST know how dogs think and must understand their individual dog; Otherwise it's like trying to tell a wall to paint itself. I do try to keep an open mind and I am aware that there are exceptions to every rule. Your next point is where I disagree, though. When someone seeks to get a dog, they need to be aware of breed traits first. Why on Earth would someone get a husky for - say - a farm dog when a variety of other breeds will be better suited to the life? I don't doubt that there is a magnificent trainer out there who - when paired with the right temperament of dog - could train a husky to herd sheep. But why the hell would anyone bother to go to such limits to train a dog to overcome all of its in-born drives and instincts when there are many breeds who already excel at it? If a person wants a companion dog to be off leash all the time, it's foolish to suggest getting a husky. Because - as you already said - it's partly about the owner and they need to be not just skilled in training, but above average. And they need to be aware of other training methods, such as rewarding with prey drive. Letting them chase a squirrel to reward them; It would take significantly more effort and understanding, the reliability is relative to how well you did and is still a grey area to me but a competent trainer should be able to do it. Again, a competent trainer may be able to get a husky operating with reliable recall for them, but it's foolish to assert that it can be readily done and encouraged. The results can often just lead to tragedy and heartbreak. You then go on to say that you would be very hesitant to do it as well. So for the average owner, who is not a pro-star trainer, why is it poor advice to give a breed generalization? While it might not make as much difference to us, it's a completely different world to them. and even if you have them trained reliably in an envirnment with lots of distractions, a new type of distraction (The "Golden Raccoon" shall we say) that again, we don't notice could pop up make a reliable dog not. So it's important to train for a very long time to raise the odds of training against all kinds of distractions. I agree that even the most reliable dog should never be considered 100%, regardless of breed. But one can safely assume that a border collie is going to be more consistently and dramatically reliable than a husky, even a well-trained one. Even then, it's a risk. It works for some and for some it doesn't. I just believe people should be given the facts and that they should choose for themselves rather than somebody seeing that it doesn't work for them and then spreading it to other people whom it may work for like it's the gospel and then verbally burning anyone at the stake whom doesn't believe (I'm not necessarily accusing you of this, I'm just stating how I feel). Except that those are the facts. I'm simply pointing out that - in my experience and based on everything I've read both in books and on the internet - the vast majority of husky owners who claim their dogs are reliable off leash do not have fully mature dogs. I would rather point this out as a breed trait - because it is. I would much rather the owner of a pup be aware that their husky may not always recall reliably and could easily get to the point of complete disobedience than have them suffer an awful surprise. THAT is why many husky owners - not just me - frequently remind people that they are not - in general - off leash dogs. No one should EVER get a husky expecting an off leash companion. Period. If they manage to luck out and get just the right temperament and mentality and end up with a reliable husky then they are lucky and can certainly enjoy it. If they are a super-stellar-awesome-master-of-all trainer who can train any dog to do anything, they won't care if someone else tells them it shouldn't be done. But for the average owner - which is the vast majority of us - breed traits must be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 a photo that was shared on facebook. This is a husky which was hit by a car being offlead. It survived just... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I found this photo hugely amusing and had to share: Cesar Millan walking a big pack of (mostly) loose dogs, and where's the husky? On a leash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 I found this photo hugely amusing and had to share: Cesar Millan walking a big pack of (mostly) loose dogs, and where's the husky? On a leash! is it though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 is it though? Yep! ctrl+ to zoom in and you can see that the top leash is going to that dog. (ctrl- to zoom back out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thats a great pic!! goes to show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatherp438 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ok - it's been suggested to set up a thread so we can see the percentage of husky owners here who let their dogs off lead. I've created the poll - please take a moment to vote on it - all votes are anonymous and you can chose more than one. We live on about an acre out in the country and I have now let Koba off of his lead a few times. So far he had done great. He just played around the yard. We were nervous as our pug immediately leaves the neighborhood if he breaks free. It was a big relief. I am still a little cautious and only do it for short periods of time and under very closer supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I found this photo hugely amusing and had to share: Cesar Millan walking a big pack of (mostly) loose dogs, and where's the husky? On a leash! I wonder how many takes it took to get that picture, or if there WAS a dog right there in front of him but was photoshopped out. LOL And not all dogs are walking behind him. You're slipping, CM! Give out the proper energy, or whatever it is you blab on about! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I wonder how many takes it took to get that picture, or if there WAS a dog right there in front of him but was photoshopped out. LOL And not all dogs are walking behind him. You're slipping, CM! Give out the proper energy, or whatever it is you blab on about! LOL It would be hard with that many dogs, but I am suitably impressed nonetheless! And it looks like the little black thing is for sure ahead, and the leashed shepherd cross too, but just to have them all that close together and walking quietly is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irene Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I voted no. I did once in a tennis court in oxford but the door was tied shut and andys son wouldnt let anyone open it. Dog parks imo are a bit dodgy in case an eejit opens the gate and doesnt shut it. leads all the way for mine. marley dos,nt go off lead but one day there was 4 of us and we did the same in tennis court ....marley is on a horse lunge rein ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irene Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I wonder how many takes it took to get that picture, or if there WAS a dog right there in front of him but was photoshopped out. LOL And not all dogs are walking behind him. You're slipping, CM! Give out the proper energy, or whatever it is you blab on about! LOL[/quote what a fabulous picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laine Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not to start an argument or anything, but I took that pic into PS and... it's a 50/50 the husky is on a lead. It could be going to the husky, OR the bully type beside him (smoky gray dog on the right facing the pic). It's hard to tell because the larger dog ahead has his ears flopping in the way. But looking close, there is a couple of pixles of blue on the bully type dog but not coming from the husky. So at best, it's debatable about the husky, unless he came right out and said the husky was on lead. That said, right now I'm working with Orion on his recall and while he seems to be getting it, I still would not trust him off lead unless in an enclosed space. He will chase flies, birds, leaves or anything else and right now he will not come back to me. I would like to get him to a point that at least if he does take off and gets out of my hands, if I call him he pauses a moment. That pause is what will probably make or break him coming back to me. It's not a totally reliable offlead thing, BUT it's a safety net just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyMom09 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 · Hidden Hidden a photo that was shared on facebook. This is a husky which was hit by a car being offlead. It survived just... [ATTACH=full]41867[/ATTACH] That's our Diamond. Her first owners were, lets just say, not husky qualified....at 9 months old she was struck and and almost killed by a car. Rehabbing a broken dog is not something I would not wish on anyone it was the hardest and longest 6 months of my life....it hasn't really ended either. She can't go outside in the extreme cold for much longer than a potty because of the metal plates and screws that now hold her front legs together. She gets cold easy and is arthritic. The only place mine run off lead is in their contained yard. Link to comment
Ravenwolf Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not to start an argument or anything, but I took that pic into PS and... it's a 50/50 the husky is on a lead. It could be going to the husky, OR the bully type beside him (smoky gray dog on the right facing the pic). It's hard to tell because the larger dog ahead has his ears flopping in the way. But looking close, there is a couple of pixles of blue on the bully type dog but not coming from the husky. So at best, it's debatable about the husky, unless he came right out and said the husky was on lead. That said, right now I'm working with Orion on his recall and while he seems to be getting it, I still would not trust him off lead unless in an enclosed space. He will chase flies, birds, leaves or anything else and right now he will not come back to me. I would like to get him to a point that at least if he does take off and gets out of my hands, if I call him he pauses a moment. That pause is what will probably make or break him coming back to me. It's not a totally reliable offlead thing, BUT it's a safety net just in case. In PS take the line tool and draw a line continuing the leash. LOL, while there's no way to tell 100%, I'd put money on where that leash is going! I agree that teaching recall is so important to teach anyway, unreliable as it may be to husky ears. When I have to bring Wyatt to a short leash on the retractable I always call him - it's nice that I can use the leash to reinforce if he ignores. But it has definitely saved his butt a number of times when he's either gotten away when I lost grip on the leash or gotten loose in another circumstance - many times he'll obey because he doesn't ever realize he's free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasodaisy Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 On very good advice from here we've been teaching Kobi recall on a long lead, i don't know if it would work however i'd rather we had that to try than nothing. I have also started using a retractible lead (the irony of buying one then the dog deciding to walk to heel anyway!), when he does occasionally wander a bit further i just use his recall command and he (usually) comes right back to me. Ok so he's sold out for chopped carrots, i know he only comes back cos he thinks he might get one but whatever works. I'm still convinced a smarter husky would have held out for steak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 That's our Diamond. Her first owners were, lets just say, not husky qualified....at 9 months old she was struck and and almost killed by a car. Rehabbing a broken dog is not something I would not wish on anyone it was the hardest and longest 6 months of my life....it hasn't really ended either. She can't go outside in the extreme cold for much longer than a potty because of the metal plates and screws that now hold her front legs together. She gets cold easy and is arthritic. The only place mine run off lead is in their contained yard. I had no idea she was yours. you must be the person on facebook who shared it. you did a fab job with her. xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyMom09 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 · Hidden Hidden I had no idea she was yours. you must be the person on facebook who shared it. you did a fab job with her. xx I did share her story on Facebook Thank you Storm & Angels Mum, it was quite a journey but we are rewarded with a wonderful happy husky girl Link to comment
Arooroomom Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Cheyenne and Rodeo were off lead yesterday at this photoshoot we were doing. While they weren't running around they did very well with off lead control and direction to stay/sit/down. Everyone was very pleased and surprised at how well they behaved since they aren't "professional" photography/animal talent dogs at all. Training them to work off the leash and to recall is so important. But never would I ever take them to a field let them off lead and open them up. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I've tried to retrain his recall, but it doesn't work. One time, I literally held up a raw steak (that was meant to be our supper, but I was willing to give it to him to come back!) and called him. He paused, looked at me, smelled the air, and then continued trotting down the sidewalk like an innocent dog. He eventually came back after I cut through the backyard neighbour's yard and 'cut him off' on the other part of the street (still holding the steak). Cause I knew where he was going - the dog park and the woods are that way! I only gave him part of the steak, though, cause my Dad would be pissed at me if I gave him the whole thing. But I was desparate and nothing I would do was working! So, lesson learned: When nothing else works, wave a steak in front of their face. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellabear11 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 We let bella off the lead every day, either on the beach or on the prom. Sometimes she gets off 2 or 3 times a day, but she ALWAYS gets off the lead EVERYDAY. She has a great recall. Today for example, we were on the beach, there wasn't much beach as it was high tide, yet on the beach there was a border collie, and 3 little yappy dogs. She played with the boarder collie for a bit and EVERYTIME I said 'leave' she would leave the ball ( good thig as it was theirs) and EVERYTIME I said 'come' she came to my side. This is not unusual for bells. She is great on the lead now and only pulls if I say 'go on'. It has taken some time but I think the fact that she knows she will always get off the lead again we do have a problem with food aggression but that is getting better with every meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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