BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 read this is a dog magazine today n found it really intresting so i thought i would share with you all Wolf experts say pack leaders don't do alpha rolls, only upstart bullies do! No one likes a bully................... If wolf biologists have long believed that 'alpha' concepts are outdated, why are dog trainers and owners still using it? Several Decades ago, biologists thought that a wolf pack wa smade up of unrelated individuals who came together to form a group. In those days they did not have the advanced methods of tracking and studying wild wolves, so simulated this in captive conditions, noting down their findings. In a captive situation, wolves will compete for position and a dominance structure forms. A leading behaviourist at the time, Rudolph Schenkel, described his finding, noting that there was a dominant female and male in each pack and coined the term 'alpha'. Many biologists adopted this idea and it wasn't until later that they changed their view of a pack as being a family group with the parents or breeding pair at the top. The offspring are guided and coached by their parents, who hold authority over them as we do our children. Yearlings would naturally be dominant to the new cubs, just as older human siblings look after and supervise younger brothers and sisters. Pack Mentality Aggression levels are low. The young adults generally disperse to find mates of their own between one and three years of age. If an older daughter reached sexual maturity while still with her maternal pack, she may, if conditions are right, also breed, but only with an unrelated male who would temporarily join the pack. when given the choice, wolves will not inbreed. Unfortunately, it is said to take 20 years for information from the scientific world to filter down to general acceptance. Although we are starting to see a turn away from dominance training, I belive we may have another 10 years before its long awaited demise. The Human Pack How does this information relate to our relationship with the family dog? Many old chinese whispers are still around: you have to do this and that because that's how wolves do it - like eating first for example. Firstly, your dog is not a full-blown wolf. Although classed as a subspecies of the wolf (our pet dogs' scientific name is Canis Lupus Familiaris), genetically they are said to differ by 0.04%. It doesn't sound much, but think about apes and humans. We recognise so much of ourselves in them, but would not class humans as the same species. Even within the numerous wolf species and subspecies, behaviour and social structure can differ. Think of your dog as a much-watered-down version of a wolf, engineered by humans to suit the roles we required, such as herding, hunting and guarding. Within breeds, some will show more wolf like traits than others, such as independance, wandering and prey drive. These tend to be the ancient breeds that are genetically slightly closer to the wolf but really still worlds apart. Over many hundreds of generations, dogs have moved away from their ancestors and can no longer survive long-term without humans, as a pack will not form around and support a breeding bitch, and it is unlikely she will be able to raise pups alone. Yhe domestic dog never fully matures, staying very puppy-like in demeanour in order to please and be appealing to us. They breed twice a year in any season and will mostly mix happily with dogs in the park without signs of territorial aggression. In short, not the dominant animal we have been led to belive and certainly not needing to be put in its place with constant bullying. Good Cop, Bad Cop So let's dispel some of the myths behind dominance training, In a wolf pack a strong leader is calm, quiet and slightly aloof from the others. It will command authority with a soft growl, a look or shift in body posture. Bullying, high-ranking wolves are the opposite; they constantly feel they must show the world they are in control by picking on subordinates in a very physical manner. They dominate in a rough manner - for example by knocking to the floor and nipping or muzzle-punching the lower-ranking wolf. Is it starting to sound familiar? Wolves do not put up with a bully for long; you are leader because the rest of the pack allows you to be. I have heard many stories over the 21 years I have worked with canids about dogs biting owners when the human has physically reprimanded them. Any animal has the right to defend himself against attack. Dogs get mislabelled all the time. A growl, when physically taking a dog by the collar to remove it from the sofa, does not necessarily mean he's being dominant, Ask yourself why. Did your dog get bowled over in the pack earlier? is he in pain? if you'd hurt your neck and your partner grabbed you by the scruff of your shirt to move you to A to B, wouldn't you snap? When going through a door by all means ask your dog to wait, but do it for the right reason - it won't make you a stronger leading in your dog's eyes. It is however, good manners and safer for your dog to sit and wait at the door rather than rushing out, knocking you over and running into oncoming traffic. Would you let your children do that, or jump all over visitors when arriving at the house? No, you teach them to be polite. It should be the same with your dog. In wolf packs, the best wolf at tracking will take the lead in a hunt or they will change who breaks trail through the deep snow. I am often asked when out walking the wolves if they are dominant when walking ahead of you on the lead. No they are just enjoying the walk and taking in the smells and sights, Guide dogs do not show dominance to their owners when asked to walk ahead in the guiding position, so why do we think our dog is dominant if he walks ahead at the end of the lead? Again it's safer for all if he walks on a loose lead by your side, but this has little to do with his pack position. None of the wolves challenge us handlers because they walk ahead. They don't wait for the higher-ranking wolf to walk through a gate before they do, wither, and they certainly don't wait their turn when dinner turns up. Where did the idea of eating food first before your dog, come from? Probably from people watching wolf packs eat. If its a large prey animal and a small pack, there is enough room for everyone to tuck in at the same time; if not, some will wait their turn. It's true to say those with the highest priority may eat first - ie the breeding pair and the youngest cubs - but the reason is for the continuation of the pack. Subordinate wolves that might not get enough food will soon disperse, If you feed your dog and then, an hour later, have your dinner, all that your dog will think is: "where's mine?" or "I'm full so i don't care." Dogs, like wolves, live in the here and now. The other Chinese whisper I often hear is: "My dog is dominant because if I argue or rough-house with my partner he jumps up and tries to bite or leap between us." This is actually a sign of a good omega or lower-ranking animal. Their role is to redirect aggression by inserting themselves between fighting breeding pairs to prevent injury between the two leaders and therefore the possible break-up of the pack. Omegas are rescourceful and can use play to defuse a situation, often initiating a play session With all this in mind, I'm not saying you shouldnt be leader to your dog, but please think about the truth behind the old myths. Teach good manners, guide and shape behaviour with calm, quiet authority and remember that nobody likes a bully, especially your dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 very good nix Thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid_Wolf Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 +1 nix, good find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosemary Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Thanks Nix - great read ................ very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kells xx Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 wow nix thats great thanks added to rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 took me soooo long to type out - i was NOT happy when i had typed out half then lost it so had 2 re-type it all again lol will have a look thru all my mags n see what else i can type up lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 very interesting read Nix. thanks. xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCouture Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 nice find nix, +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 wonderful read nix +1 Really interesting information there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahNukka&Shadow Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Nice one Nix, do you still have it typed maybe we could email it to Cesar Milan! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 lol just copy it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Nice one Nix, do you still have it typed maybe we could email it to Cesar Milan! LOL ^^ the best sentence i have ever seen :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahNukka&Shadow Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 ^^ the best sentence i have ever seen :rofl: Alright Mr technical! I ment had she saved it to her PC or whatever!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Excellent work Nix. . . +1. . do you have a scanner on your printer ?? if you have a scanner email me the pages and I'll convert them to pages you can type and edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Alright Mr technical! I ment had she saved it to her PC or whatever!! Excellent work Nix. . . +1. . do you have a scanner on your printer ?? if you have a scanner email me the pages and I'll convert them to pages you can type and edit. lol nah i still have the magazine article tho and i typed it straight up to here - these are NOT my words people! lol n nah no scanner or printer we used to have 1 but alas they are no more lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Oh, Ok.. . never mind. . You're getting the reps for passing on some really interesting and genuinely helpful info. great job for finding it, sharing, and all the effort involved. . . . :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjk Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 interesting read. and i am not condoning bullying you dog, but by moving into a humans life and away from the wild their behaviour has changed, so comparing a dog to a wild pack is flawed logic. there is still ongoing a study by a russian scientist with foxes, basically only the friendliest from each generation where allowed to breed, and 40 years later they are very very tame the control group where the alphas mate still exhibit wild behaviour. they need to figure out the exact way of raising a pet dog and have classes for owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 agree with you david, you hear so many people saying in the wild the alpha eats first and the alpha would pin another wolf down ect thats why i posted this up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyra Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 +1 for a great read, Nix. This type of information will be sooo helpful when we bring Dante home next week. I'm going to have Aaron read it so we can both keep a cool head about typical puppy/dog behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Thats brilliant Nix, thanks. Have you read The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson? Really interesting reading. I've mentioned it before on here, probably more than once:D but I've noticed so many different things since I've had a proper 'pack' of dogs here, Diesel is the alpha dog, but very rarely does he actually have to fight, it really is a look or a growl, or a slight shift in his body posture, and the other dogs back off, or move away. Its usually only the new dogs that will challenge him - usually only once or twice, then they settle into the pack and all is calm again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 nope i havent karen, have you got a link for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 great post nix added to rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted September 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 wow i need to post up stuff like this more often lol never had so much rep lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraxxx29 Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 Oh my gosh I really enjoyed reading that thanks nix +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted September 21, 2010 Report Share Posted September 21, 2010 nope i havent karen, have you got a link for it? You should be able to get it from Amazon, its a great book, not the easiest to read. Another one that has made me think differently about dogs is Dogs, A New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behaviour and Evolution by Raymond and Lorna Coppinger. THeres a whole section on sled dogs in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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