Gizmo's training

[siberian_wolf]

So over the past few months I have been doing training with Gizmo and people, hoping that he would calm down and settle with them and not continually growl at them.

He started to become alot more calm and relaxed and I was able to allow people to actually pet him. It was brilliant to see Gizmo starting to relax around people and a really confidence boost for me as well

BUT...... It didn't last very long

Just the other day I was stood talking anoth dog owner in the park and I had Gizmo calmly sat by me. I was talking to her about the training I am doing with Gizmo for a while and before we carried on she asked if she could pet him. As his body language was calm and with the great success I had so far I said it would be ok for her to pet him. I'm not sure how or what happend exactly next but as she went to pet Gizmo he immediately tensed up and went to bite her!!!!! He didn't get a hold of her directly but did tear her coat and if she didn't have her coat on I believe he would have got her skin!!!!! This is the first time Gizmo has been this aggressive to anyone and I really hope it will be the last!

Fortunately for both myself and Gizmo she was incredibaly understanding and didn't want to persue the matter further, however I went to the bank and got out enough money to replace the coat. I don't know who was more shocked, me or her! Either way both myself and Gizmo are extremely lucky that she was so understanding!

I have now bought a muzzle for Gizmo to wear on walks and I really hope I can train him more and help him be calm and settled around people so he doesnt have to wear the muzzle for the rest of his life! It's looks awful on him and he doesnt like to wear it but I have to protect him and the people around us!

I feel like I have failed him as an owner and now everyone see's him with that muzzle on and they freak out like Gizmo is some monster! He isn't a monster and although he now carries the label of dangerous dog, he is my responsibility and it's my fault that he has to wear that gastly thing around his mouth, but people just don't seem to look at it that way.

On a good note, mainly to cheer myself up, Marley has been doing brilliantly with his dog aggression. Since our camping trip in October, Marley hasn't been aggressive once to any other dog and instead he has resorted to making loads of new doggy friends and has been playing with the other dogs he meets!

[Andy]

I really feel for you, our Husky is 16 weeks old and is still training. however we rehomed a 2 year old white GSD she was NEVER socialised with people or other dogs and is aggressive to people and adult dogs. we have been working with her but finding people who are willing to approach an obviously aggressive dog to help socialise her or allow their dogs near. Well its almost impossible. But we struggle on and she is slowly getting better. It is a very long dark tunnel but there is light at the end. We are not giving up on her like so many other people do when they find they have a "problem dog"

[Sarah]

Oh Amy So sorry to read this. You've done a TREMENDOUS amount of work with your pack - and that showed so much when we went camping in October ! Don't feel like you're a failure - YOU ARE NOT

I'm glad the lady understood and didn't want to pursue the matter

have you spoken to your behaviourist about it - can she offer any help or advice?

We're all here for you babe - never forget that and don't put yourself don't - look at what you've achieved with them all so far it's a long process but you WILL get there xx

(for those that don't know Amy - she has been staff on here for a long time now - more or less since we started lol she is currently away from the forum and spending all her time working with her 3 boys)

[Bec]

Sorry to hear you are having troubles with Gizmo

Sometimes aggression is never cured, just managed. Often there are even the most subtle of signs that we can fail to read or can miss in a split second. The other thing to remember with aggression is that each dogs has his own threshold, which means the distance they can get from a trigger before reacting. Gizmo could have a threshold that allows him to tolerate people at a reasonably close distance, but not if they get up close and try to pat him. It's important to work out what your dogs threshold is so you can work with it and help prevent them from displaying aggression.

Don't feel too disheartened. This is just one set back. Having a dog that is consistent, no matter if you are training an aggressive dog or training for fun, is HARD work! Just tonight I had my youngest dog out at training club and she did every single exercise - stand for exam, recall, hell even a formal retrieve which she only did for the first time properly two days ago, perfectly with excellent enthusiasm and focus - with the exception of the heel pattern which went from brilliant to absolute rubbish. This is a dog who has no behaviourial problems, is pretty well trained and a dog who I have invested a lot of time and energy into - and she's still far from perfect and still not totally reliably or consistent! (yet). Like I said don't be discouraged by it because it takes a LOT of work to get there!

[Kells xx]

hey sorry to hear that gizmo reacted that way, as my dad andy said we have an aggressive gsd, this morning she allowed a teenager and 3 small children to stroke her and she laid there nice and quiet.........however on her second walk of the morning she went off at everyone, even people across the road!!!!!!!

does gizmo have a favorite toy???? if he has then take that, um when i see echo tense i will say in a very excited voice 'echo wheres your squeaky' and she will just stare at me and ignore everything else, i sometimes have to repeat squeaky at lot and ask where her ball is and make squeaky noises with my voice. it works with her and may work for gizmo

dont give up on your dog!!!!!!!!, he does want to be friendly he just cant grasp how.

pm me if you need a chat or to rant, ill listen and help if i can because i have been through it all with echo

hugs

kelly

[mbb23]

Oh im so sorry to hear this Amy you have put so much hard work, effort and time in with all the training.

YOU HAVE NOT LET GIZMO DOWN YOU ARE A FANTASTIC OWENR WHO WORKS VERY VERY HARD WITH HER PACK!!

I agree with Sarah and have a chat with the behaviourist and see what else they suggest? sorry I cant be much help x x x x x x

[Sqwidge]

Oh Amy, please don't be disheartened...you will get there it's just going to take longer than you thought. Try not to set yourself a target of when you want it sorted by, kinda go with the flow and if he reacts like he did above then go back a step on the training, like don't let people stroke him for a week (or whatever, remember i have no idea what i'm talking about!) just have people near him, then once he's tolerant of that/looks interested in people, let him venture towards them, assuming he's not doing it aggresively...etc...

i dunno, i guess i'm just trying to say keep perservering, you have done such a fantastic job so far... xxxxxxxxxxx

[siberian_wolf]

We are not giving up on her like so many other people do when they find they have a "problem dog"

Glad to hear you are willing to put all the time and effort needed to help your GSD. I definately am not giving up on Gizmo, He has helped me through so much that most people wouldnt understand and for that the least I can do for him is help him settle with people. Like you say finding people that are willing to help with aggressive dogs is an almost impossible task but there has to be someone that will.

have you spoken to your behaviourist about it - can she offer any help or advice?

With recent event I haven't been able to get in touch with her for a while now. The method she uses is Amichien method which I felt wan't what Gizmo needed to calm down with people as all I was told to do was to get people to just ignore him and for me to do the same but I just can't stand there and ignore my dog when I know he is stressed. I have been using positive reinforcement with him and trying to make the presence of people around him means that he get something pleasurable happen (i.e. his fave treats, attention from me, play time, etc) and it was starting to work until he went to bite the lady. To me, it looked like she approached him like every other person had but she also lent over his head which Gizmo could have found as a threat and that may have been why he went to bite but I wouldn't want to say for certain.

Thankyou all for your support, I am carrying the training on it's just a little bit harder now I have to put a muzzle on him before we go out. I am hoping to have a vehicle soon that I can take the dogs in and then I hope to take Gizmo to a much quieter area with hardly any people so I can do some training without the muzzle without the fear of him biting someone.

[Sarah]

Don't beat yourself up over this Amy - it could very well be a one off incident - you never know, but don't let your guard down - that goes for any dog and their owner - no one should be too complacent.

The important thing to remember Amy is not to let you pent up fear of him doing it again pass onto him, stay calm (have you still quit smoking? If not have a cig - if you HAVE still stopped forget i said anything they're really bad for you!! lol)

[Bec]

I have been using positive reinforcement with him and trying to make the presence of people around him means that he get something pleasurable happen (i.e. his fave treats, attention from me, play time, etc) and it was starting to work until he went to bite the lady. To me, it looked like she approached him like every other person had but she also lent over his head which Gizmo could have found as a threat and that may have been why he went to bite but I wouldn't want to say for certain.

Just be careful you are rewarding for behaviour you want to see, not just rewarding him because he is around people. When I am training Micha near other dogs, I ONLY reward for focus and attention on me. I don't reward him for looking at the other dogs, I give him a command and reward when he complies to it or when he offers me good solid focus.

Training aggressive dogs is about teaching them they have an option other than aggression, that complying with you and looking to you for guidance is the answer not exhibiting aggressive behaviour.

[Sibe77]

Dont give up Amy! and dont ever think your a faliure as an owner! you do great work with 3 big boys (4 if you include Jamie..lol) maybe Gizmo just senced something he did not like? Grey done that the other day with Mary, she had him on a lead and a lad walked past and Grey went for him which he never ever does! poor bloke Shat himself! but i just think he scenced something he did not like about the bloke, but 5 mins later he has 5 kids swinging of his neck and did not flinch!. Gizmo was great in October and he was fine when i stroked him and that was when you had just really started training, so just stick with it hun it will work out in the end....

[Kells xx]

carry on with your training and hopefully you will see some results, they may be slow and he may relapse in his behaviour but he does want to please you and as long as you are consistent you will be helping him

chin up chick

kelly

[siberian_wolf]

Thank you so much everyone. It really helps having so much support from you all.

Just be careful you are rewarding for behaviour you want to see, not just rewarding him because he is around people. When I am training Micha near other dogs, I ONLY reward for focus and attention on me. I don't reward him for looking at the other dogs, I give him a command and reward when he complies to it or when he offers me good solid focus.

Training aggressive dogs is about teaching them they have an option other than aggression, that complying with you and looking to you for guidance is the answer not exhibiting aggressive behaviour.

Maybe that's where I have been going wrong then. It was only when people where around him that I would use a particular reward hoping that he would relate the reward and people around him as a positive experience but I wasn't getting his focus on me so I will work on that, thanks. I have just bought some training tools (a clicker and a whistle) to help teach some more commands. I got the clicker for the majority of commands and the whistle for recall training only. I will use the clicker training to teach him a command to focus on me.

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

AMY YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!!! uve done an amazing job with ur pack and they have come so far! its just 1 setback that u can now focus on and fix - maybe getting people 2 give gizmo his treats may help him see people as a good thing? - u sed this woman leaned over gizmo - did any ov the other people? if not maybe he felt that she was too much up in his personal space - theres this akita cross i see everyday on my way 2 work shes a lovely dog and always comes over 2 me for a fuss but when she gets 2 me she seems very wary so i just hold my hand out 2 her and just let her sniff me till she seems calm and relaxed then i more my hand slowly 2 tickle her chin/nexk - i heard sumwhere that people going 2 pat the top ov a dogs head can sometimes feel threatening to them - maybe u cud ask people 2 give him a treat let him sniff them then if u feel he is relaxed enuf for a fuss ask them 2 not lean over him or 2 pat his head but instead 2 tickle/stoke his chin/neck?

remember where i am if u wanna chat ok hun xxxx

[Wizadora]

i think one of the ways to stop aggression to people is to get LOTS of different people to give him treats when he acts calm, and to pet him after hes learnt that people bring treats so i should be nice. Aggression is most often out of fear, so he needs to learn that people = nice things.

[mbb23]

Dont give up Amy! and dont ever think your a faliure as an owner! you do great work with 3 big boys (4 if you include Jamie..lol) maybe Gizmo just senced something he did not like? Grey done that the other day with Mary, she had him on a lead and a lad walked past and Grey went for him which he never ever does! poor bloke Shat himself! but i just think he scenced something he did not like about the bloke, but 5 mins later he has 5 kids swinging of his neck and did not flinch!. Gizmo was great in October and he was fine when i stroked him and that was when you had just really started training, so just stick with it hun it will work out in the end....

Grey didnt snap he only just jumped for him and growled I was so shocked as he has never done that befo!! By this point the lad had jumped to the other side of the road in fear and I felt so bad and said im really sorry and he was fine.

To be honest I dont think Grey ment anything bad I think it was more to do with the fact that the lad was looking very shifty walking towards him (maybe cause he is scared of Dogs) and Grey had picked up on that.

I get alot of people (who scared of Dogs) who over react and make a big drama when walking past Grey, iv had people tease him with barking or silly Dog noises or screaming and shouting wolf wolf when walking past him and im like of course a Dog is going to react when you act like that! I know a Dog aint everyones cup of tea but walk past calmly or let me know and I can move away but just done act the arse cause then Grey picks up on that and thinks its play time and will approach them people.

I have had Mums practically throw there child into a main busy road cause im coming up to walking past with Grey very odd!!! But to be fair there are some really niuce people/kids who love to come over and say hello to Grey and play with him and give him cuddles and lots of belly rubs and Grey is such a big softy and will lie there like a big baby x x x x x x

[Val (Zebedee)]

Amy, not sure how you think you're a failure, you have come so far with all 3 boys. Just because you are protecting him as well as others for the time being is not failing Gizmo, it's showing him he has to make the choice, as we all know huskies do!

Look at the change in Marley, he was the anti-social one when I first met you & he's turned around, Gizmo just has to realise he can't get away with being stroppy - just be patient, take a step back & keep at it. I wish I were closer, I'd love to help you out with him being a stranger approaching him.

Good luck, hunny, it will work out, it may just take a while longer than anticipated, xx

[Bec]

Maybe that's where I have been going wrong then. It was only when people where around him that I would use a particular reward hoping that he would relate the reward and people around him as a positive experience but I wasn't getting his focus on me so I will work on that, thanks. I have just bought some training tools (a clicker and a whistle) to help teach some more commands. I got the clicker for the majority of commands and the whistle for recall training only. I will use the clicker training to teach him a command to focus on me.

You have to be careful you are rewarding for the behaviour you want to see, not just rewarding him for being around people as this can backfire if you miss any signs of stress/fear/discomfort.

[Sid_Wolf]

Dont feel bad hun, your doing great, we all know how much work your putting into their training, and your starting to see results, keep up with it and it'll get better, today was a set back thats all.

On a more helpful note, have you tried rescue remedy? Theres a trainer I speak to who swears by it for anxious and stressed dogs, she sprays it on her coat cuffs, her trouser seam about head height, her gloves, the dogs collar, and the lead about a hand length away from the trigger clip, says it works wonders. And theres no dose limit so you cant use too much

[siberian_wolf]

Amy, not sure how you think you're a failure, you have come so far with all 3 boys. Just because you are protecting him as well as others for the time being is not failing Gizmo, it's showing him he has to make the choice, as we all know huskies do!

Look at the change in Marley, he was the anti-social one when I first met you & he's turned around, Gizmo just has to realise he can't get away with being stroppy - just be patient, take a step back & keep at it.

Thanks val. Marley has taken a turn for the best, he has a huge amount doggy friends now which he plays with in the field, I just need to work hard with Gizmo so he can have a huge amount of people friends We was stopped today by a couple and Gizmo was great with them, they said he didn't look or act like he would ever want to bite someone.

I wish I were closer, I'd love to help you out with him being a stranger approaching him.

Gizmo and me would love you to live closer, he wouldnt hesitate to see Myshka everyday!

On a more helpful note, have you tried rescue remedy? Theres a trainer I speak to who swears by it for anxious and stressed dogs, she sprays it on her coat cuffs, her trouser seam about head height, her gloves, the dogs collar, and the lead about a hand length away from the trigger clip, says it works wonders. And theres no dose limit so you cant use too much

Yeah I have heard about it before, have used a similar herbal remedy with my old rottie Butch during firework season. I am going to continue with the training for now as we did have some success from it, I just need to work harder with Gizmo to help him gain confidence.

[valkyries]

Best of luck Amy your doing real well with the boys xxxx

[SarahNukka&Shadow]

AMY YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!!! uve done an amazing job with ur pack and they have come so far! its just 1 setback that u can now focus on and fix - maybe getting people 2 give gizmo his treats may help him see people as a good thing? - u sed this woman leaned over gizmo - did any ov the other people? if not maybe he felt that she was too much up in his personal space - theres this akita cross i see everyday on my way 2 work shes a lovely dog and always comes over 2 me for a fuss but when she gets 2 me she seems very wary so i just hold my hand out 2 her and just let her sniff me till she seems calm and relaxed then i more my hand slowly 2 tickle her chin/nexk - i heard sumwhere that people going 2 pat the top ov a dogs head can sometimes feel threatening to them - maybe u cud ask people 2 give him a treat let him sniff them then if u feel he is relaxed enuf for a fuss ask them 2 not lean over him or 2 pat his head but instead 2 tickle/stoke his chin/neck?

remember where i am if u wanna chat ok hun xxxx

This is exactly what I was going to say Nix!

Amy Just remember one thing... As long as your trying your never a failiure! And everyone who knows you, knows how hard you try with your boys, you are the kind of owner I wish all dogs had! One who identifys a problem and works with the dog instead of ignoring it and hoping it goes away or worse dumping the dog becuase of it!

What Nix said makes perfect sense and I've been told by dog behaviourists that its peoples natural reaction to lean over the dog and pat the head but if they stopped and thought about how scary that is if someone bigger than them leaned over them and patted their head then they wouldnt!

If you find anyone wants to pet him Id say give them a treat tell them to get down to his level and offer the treat on an open palm like you would a horse and then when hes taken it let him sniff their hand abit and then slowly move it to under his chin or lower down his body, its much less threatening body language to him... think how dogs greet each other bum first, its very dominant behaviour for dogs to meet face to face and start pawing at each other and so it is for people to do that.

It'll take time but just dont give up keep calm hava cuppa and carry on! Thats my motto! LOL

Hugs to you and your boys!

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

Thanks val. Marley has taken a turn for the best, he has a huge amount doggy friends now which he plays with in the field, I just need to work hard with Gizmo so he can have a huge amount of people friends We was stopped today by a couple and Gizmo was great with them, they said he didn't look or act like he would ever want to bite someone.

Gizmo and me would love you to live closer, he wouldnt hesitate to see Myshka everyday!

Yeah I have heard about it before, have used a similar herbal remedy with my old rottie Butch during firework season. I am going to continue with the training for now as we did have some success from it, I just need to work harder with Gizmo to help him gain confidence.

see hes bin rly good 2day thats a step in the right direction obviously the other day he wasnt in the best mood - just stay positive

wish we lived closer too - id try and help u out aswell

good luck amy you CAN do this!