infinitykate Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I don't know about the UK but in canada you can have the pup KC registered after the fact and without the papers of mum and dad, provided it is neutered / spayed and your vet will sign papers confirming that it is a purebred. That way you can still participate in KC competition if you're so inclined. It's not expensive to do, it's really common, and because you're not breeding it makes tracing a bloodline a moot point. Might do that for Finn if I ever get her trained well enough to compete, but probably not. lol. As a side note, I understand you're frustrated, but I'll tell ya what my grandma would say. "There are two kinds of people in this world, those who forgive, forget, learn and move on, and those who hold a grudge forever." Being the latter is a choice, and it takes FAR more energy than it's worth. If you don't intend to register the pup, file a complaint with the KC and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_426 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 the bottom line is he put pen to paper declaring they were registerd you can't sign your name and lie take it to small claims that deal with these cases so people like these can't get away with lieing simple as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I don't know about the UK but in canada you can have the pup KC registered after the fact and without the papers of mum and dad, provided it is neutered / spayed and your vet will sign papers confirming that it is a purebred. That way you can still participate in KC competition if you're so inclined. It's not expensive to do, it's really common, and because you're not breeding it makes tracing a bloodline a moot point. Might do that for Finn if I ever get her trained well enough to compete, but probably not. lol. I think we have something similar here, non-pedigree dogs and crossbreeds can be put on an associate register so you can compete in dog sports with them (well, everything bar showing obviously). I'm not sure what "KC registered" means in the UK or Canada, but in Australia it means that you have a dog with a pedigree. You can't make up a pedigree or have a ANKC registered dog unless it has pedigree papers or it's been placed on the associate register - which doesn't mean your dog is purebred, just able to compete in dog sports. the bottom line is he put pen to paper declaring they were registerd you can't sign your name and lie take it to small claims that deal with these cases so people like these can't get away with lieing simple as. The parents being registered only impact on the sale of the puppy IF the puppy was advertised as coming with pedigree papers. That the parents had papers and he's not showing them to you doesn't really change the fact that your puppy is not pedigree nor was he advertised as one. This is why we always advise people to go to reputable registered breeders, unfortunately you've been dealing with a dodgy backyard breeder and there's really not much you can do about it. It's not worth your time and money trying to take him to court, put it down to experience and next time go to a reputable breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 But he didn't lie to get you to pay more money, that i could see taking to small claims. I would report to the KC/trading standards rather than go down the legal route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Can the KC do anything if he's not a registered breeder and isn't using his dogs to register litters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 good point, i dunno...maybe call the CAB (citizens advice bureau) and ask them whether there is anything you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Can you please just tell me why you didn't ask to see the papers when you saw the pup? And if they didn't have the papers to show you, why would you take a pup off them? That would scream dodgy to me straight away. Someone made a very good point - you didn't pay any extra money to get a registered pup, so what do you think the small claims court is going to do for you? You aren't out of pocket, so there isn't a money issue here. Have you spoken to anybody about the legalities of this? I thought the small claims court was if there was a dispute over money - this isn't a dispute over money. I think that if this is a dodgy breeder, which it sounds like, if they get a letter from a solicitor all they're going to do is get some papers from a friend, if they don't have any papers themselves, and send you copies of them, so whats the point? You won't be able to prove anything. In the UK only the breeders can register a puppy, you can't get a dog registered after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shura100 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 well ive seen some non kc reg huskys go for abou 450 or somting like that but 500 is reasonable i would go to court over somthing as little as kc papers mby he lied mby he didnt wats the point in causing yourself stress over somthing like this enjoy what you have xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 none of my 3 have papers it makes no diff to me i got one from a breeder but hey i dont want to work, show or breed they my family thats it end of xxx be happy with your lil one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_426 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I didn't ask to see papers because i believed him and made him sign thats why and the small claims court is nothing to do with money it is what it is for small claims like this only. i have money but on paper i am a student and currently i dont have much money and not really because it will say their address on the parents registration so they cannot deny and if he does do that it is fraud.... so he signed he has to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 i am a student and currently i dont have much money . Then why waste it on going to small claims court just to see two pieces of paper. It will make no difference whatsoever to your pup, he can't be registered, he can't have his own pedigree papers, he can't be shown or worked in harness. So - save your money and spend it on your pup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibe77 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Just forget about it mate and just enjoy Oscar, its not worth putting yourself thru it all, we only chased up about Grey befor just to be curious and even if we did find we could KC reg him he would still had just been a family pet... Some comments on here seem to be coming across as a dig at you, but i can assure you they are not people are just very passionate about our sibes, please take our advice and just enjoy Oscar and forget about it............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I probably shouldn't post this, but what the hey. I still don't understand why you didn't just ask for a copy of the papers when you saw the pups, why would you say you wanted them sent on? The bit thats probably really going to annoy you, and its nothing personal, just me feeling a bit annoyed about how unfair life is maybe. You say you have money, but because you're a student, it looks as though you don't, so you qualify for legal aid. So taxpayers are working to pay for you to go to court over this, when really, in the greater scheme of things, its incredibly unimportant, and maybe somebody who really has no money and needs legal aid won't get it because the money has been spent on this case? If its that important to you, why don't you pay for the legal advice instead of depending on other people to do so? See, said I probably shouldn't post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Sorry if I'm making a point here someone else already ahs but havent seen it come up just yet so................ the pups may have come from two KC reg parents, but the real reason the litter hasnt been registered is because one or both of the dpgs have restrictions on their papers! This means they are registered dogs but the people who bred them chose to put restrictions on the papers to prevent the dogs being bred from, either to protect their lines or prevent dogs being used to be bred from until the breeder if ever feels it is appropriate! The restrictions can be lifted by the breeder if they choose to! So it is not a definate that he breeder you have gone to is lying about the parents being registered! I would visit the breeder in oerson and ask for a copy of the papers......unless you had what you wrote up looked over by a lawyer i very much doubt it will be considered legally binding a court of law, and if the parents of the pup you bought turned out to be KC reg you will have spent alot of money and get nothing in return! It would have been far cheaper to buy a couple of registered pups and then ypu would have knowledge of the parents than it will be to take the hing through the courts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitykate Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 So taxpayers are working to pay for you to go to court over this, when really, in the greater scheme of things, its incredibly unimportant, and maybe somebody who really has no money and needs legal aid won't get it because the money has been spent on this case? If its that important to you, why don't you pay for the legal advice instead of depending on other people to do so? See, said I probably shouldn't post it. Not my tax dollars, being as I'm from another continent but I second the sentiment. You're mad because you didn't get what he "signed his name to" which I would be willing to place money on the fact that it wouldn't hold up as a contract anyhow. I work in the legal field and I know that proper contracts fall apart every day. Haphazard documents almost never hold up. I understand your frustration with the situation but unfortunately this one is your own issue. It's not going to change anything, you're not going to get any money, you're going to waste a lot of time and heartache. If you really feel strongly that you're doing this as a service to a future buyer, spend the couple of bucks and put an ad in the paper where you found the ad for the pup, and post a notice on a few websites advising a buyer beware. Now, stop stressing and go cuddle your puppy. Accept the things you cannot change, have the courage to change what you can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val (Zebedee) Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'm sorry, I still don't get WHY you want the papers ... I don't understand what you will achieve by trying to take this guy to small claims court over him signing a piece of paper saying he would forward the parents' papers, then he hasn't & you can't contact him ... is that right? Have I understood what the problem is? Or are you saying you think he has committed fraud by saying he'll forward the papers & hasn't, even though your pup's clearly not KC registered & you knowingly paid when you picked up the pup that that was the case? Why do you want the papers ... they seem very important to you? Is it just curiosity that you want them, as I can't see what else the papers will tell you? Oh, I'm confused! I don't understand on what grounds you are complaining ... I just don't get it .... sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 been watching this thread for a few days now and came to the conclusion that you've rushed into getting a husky to quickly i know the feeling as it happened with me with keiko seen her advertised 450 stating that both parents were kc registered but not the pups, breeder couldnt afford to register the pups, however i managed to talk her into getting keiko registered took us about a month or so to get it all sorted out was beginning to think it wasnt worth all the hassles then when i done a background health check on all the dogs on her 5 generation papers i wasnt to chuffed but got it all sorted out in the end and keikos health and full of life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_426 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Is it just curiosity that we want them , just want to know a little about his family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninooks mum Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 not sure if I am right nbut do the pups papers not come from kennel club as i am almost sure the kc sent the papers to Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_426 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 karren O Connor you have a right to have a opinion but your very sceptic about it and maybe some misunderstandment, we don't care about the papers we just want to know about his family the man has signed a sheet to say we could have a copy of the papers there for if your irish english american you come to an agreement and that agreement has to be met, and a small claims court doesn't require alot of money im a college student not some bumb that doesn't do nothing so get your facts right maddam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Your English is pretty hard to understand sometimes, I don't know what an understandment is. However, maybe you don't know how the internet works. Just about anybody can join this forum and see what you've posted. I'm not making things up, this are your words: i have money but on paper i am a student and currently i dont have much money This breeder breeds sibes, so its not inconceivable that they are a member on here, or have friends that are, and you've basically just admitted that you are willing to defraud the legal aid system. I think that you'd be in just a little bit more trouble than the breeder will be, for not sending you any documentation. I never called you a bum(no b on the end). You're the one that is talking about misrepresenting the facts to get money that you're not entitled to. If you want to pay to take this breeder to court, go ahead, doesn't make any difference to me or anybody else, but thats not what you're saying. You're saying that you want to commit fraud to prove he defrauded you - can you not see the irony there? Nobody likes to be made a fool of, and I can understand why you're angry. But, you chose to buy an unregistered puppy, and didn't see any papers for the parents, so I'm afraid it is a lesson to be learnt. If it was that important for you to know the puppy's history, you should have bought a registered pup. I also think that maybe when you tell the legal aid people that you paid 500 for a puppy, they may catch on to the fact that you're not a penniless student:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Play nice folk am watching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 were the pups advertised and if so - have you got a copy of the advertisement? ?? the bottom line is he put pen to paper declaring they were registerd you can't sign your name and lie take it to small claims that deal with these cases so people like these can't get away with lieing simple as. Can you PM me or reply on here what wording was used on the paper you mentioned, i've done contract law at uni and may be able to help........or do you know the parents names so you can do some digging on them and their history if all you're after is your pups history - having the parents names, you may be able to find it on the net - i've found out quite a bit about my boys generations - you'd be surprised at how much is out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira26 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Yeah I agree with Sarah, If you have the parents names you can actually check them out on the kennel club website itself through the health check option. I was just wondering Jamie what it is you wish to accomplish through the small claims court, do you want them to make the breeders give you a copy of the parents paperwork or are you looking for some money back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think it's just to get the history i don't think he wants any sort of refund Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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