Anyone have any nice stories about friends, family's sibes having a litter.

[raindog]

lol you keep to your excuse plus i dont know in what planet you are in but in my planet DNA will iven tell you what the out come off 2 difrent DNA sibs will be in a pup .

this is my last comment in this subject

I'm not making any excuses. Just telling it like it is and explaining how all good breeders behave and why they do so. As someone who has been in the breed for 15 years and who runs the biggest Sibe Welfare organisation in the UK, I think that I am pretty much firmly grounded on Planet Reality:ran_biggrin::ran_biggrin:.

Your idea of DNA testing is a little optimistic. DNA testing on humans is still pretty much in its infancy, in dogs it is still at a very basic level (primarily because it is so expensive to research and canines are not seen as a priority). As to your final point - if all three dogs are DNA tested, all it will tell you is that the pup is or is not the offspring. Nothing more!

Mick

[carlos]

hi

I'm not making any excuses. Just telling it like it is and explaining how all good breeders behave and why they do so. As someone who has been in the breed for 15 years and who runs the biggest Sibe Welfare organisation in the UK, I think that I am pretty much firmly grounded on Planet Reality:ran_biggrin::ran_biggrin:.

Your idea of DNA testing is a little optimistic. DNA testing on humans is still pretty much in its infancy, in dogs it is still at a very basic level (primarily because it is so expensive to research and canines are not seen as a priority). As to your final point - if all three dogs are DNA tested, all it will tell you is that the pup is or is not the offspring. Nothing more!

Mick

mick just like i sead in my prevous posti do agree with you but its not a ideal world. not evry breeder is like you m8t

[Guest snowdog]

raindog do you know of any groups i might take my girl an boy to to look and see if they are of good breeding quality veven though not kc as although it is what i am maybe planning on doing i will never ever do it unless the specific tests for the hip eye and thyroid are done and that my boy is tested for any infections before they mated, i understand this is not what everyone agrees with,but if i choose to go ahead i would like to nkow that they are healthy and of good form, if not i will not go ahead, and i will persue my thoughts on fostering, any help is a bonus thankyou.

also if there moms and dads are kc can i check their history

[Lyn]

All good, ethical, responsible breeders will endorse their pup's KC registrations. When we sell a puppy, we are selling a puppy, not a breeding machine. As I said earlier in this thread (or the other one - I 'm losing track - and the will to live!)..........

Quote:

When the breeder registers a litter, he/she can endorse each pup's registration to the effect that any pups bred from the dog/bitch cannot be KC registered. This is known as a "breeding ban" although technically it is only a registration ban and unscrupulous individuals can still breed from the dog, they just can't register any of the puppies. Most breeders will lift these conditions if the following conditions are met:

1. The dog/bitch is of sufficently high quality to be bred from (usually assessed in the showring and in harness on the trail).

2. The dog/bitch has had all the appropriate health tests with good/satisfactory results.

3. The dog/bitch to which the dog/bitch is to be bred has also satisfied points 1 & 2.

4. The breeder feels that the dog/bitch's owner is sufficiently ethical, responsible and able to cope with all the ramifications of having a litter.

If the breeder does not feel these conditions have been adequately met then they will not and should not lift the bans and so if the owner goes ahead and breeds, the litter cannot be registered.

Another issue here is this - even in the best of litters, it is unusual for every single pup to be of the highest quality. If, for example, we bred a pup which had a major conformation fault, we would not only endorse that puppy's papers, but make it clear to the new owner that because of this fault, there would be no way we would ever lift the endorsement. The puppy would be sold on that understanding and a contract would be signed accordingly.

No-one is "forcing" anyone to breed unregistered sibes. If you don't fulfill the conditions set by the breeder in their contract of sale, then you shouldn't breed - full stop! If you choose to go ahead despite the endorsements, then as far as I am concerned you would be both dishonest (as you have broken the terms of your contract) and unethical.

I am in total agreement with you on this one Mick (and rep added Mick, excellent post).

We do indeed impose such a breeding ban on our pups for the same reasons. I don't think the conditions of lifting are in any way problematic to an ethical breeder whos more than happy to abide by each and every one of them and wouldn't actually consider breeding without meeting them because they are my idea of suitable owners.

As for someone going off, ignoring them, and breeding anyway, well, not only would they be unable to register the litter, they wouldn't be owning the dog we provided them with for much longer either! Thats how strong my view on breed ethics are, and I expect anyone with a dog of ours to hold the same ethics.

[valkyries]

This thread as gone on way to long, i have been reading over the past few days and i agree every one see's things different and have their own opinions on different issues.

I did understand your thread snowdog 'whould i breed my dog or not and yes i understand it would be a one off litter' straight and simple yes or no,

For me it's a no purley coz i don't have the time for pups, to me you seem a sensible person you have stated that you have done your home work, you have your vet behind you, health checks will be done, you would vet the buyers and house check, you will be on hand to help them and you will take any back that may need to come back so if i was you and yes i'll prob get slated but i'd go for it, as you said after looking in to every thing if one thing is wrong you wont breed so your not going in to this with your eyes closed good luck to you i hope it works out.

I do respect every ones points in this breeders and non breeders so i wont judge any one here, all my sibs are withoout papers but if i wanted a litter from one of mine then i would do all you are doing and i'd have my litter it's your choice.

ok if i'm to be slated coz of my opinion then far play i said it so i'm adult enough to take what comes.

As to me there are more important things going on in this world and they could all be solved if we all had the enegy and commitment to speek out over war's, starving children, hell kids loosing limbs and where here fighting over whether snowdog should breed or not god it's a sad world we live in.

ok i have broad shoulders i can take it lol

[Guest snowdog]

this thread as gone on way to long, i have been reading over the past few days and i agree every one see's things different and have their own opinions on different issues.

I did understand your thread snowdog 'whould i breed my dog or not and yes i understand it would be a one off litter' straight and simple yes or no,

i do respect every ones points in this breeders and non breeders so i wont judge any one here, all my sibs are withoout papers but if i wanted a litter from one of mine then i would do all you are doing and i'd have my litter it's your choice.

Ok if i'm to be slated coz of my opinion then far play i said it so i'm adult enough to take what comes.

As to me there are more important things going on in this world and they could all be solved if we all had the enegy and commitment to speek out over war's, starving children, hell kids loosing limbs and where here fighting over whether snowdog should breed or not god it's a sad world we live in.

Ok i have broad shoulders i can take it lol

thankyou so much for your honesty, i hope you dont get slated all you have done is state your position, and as you say it is the individuals choice, xx

[Sarah]

Raindog / Lyn / Linda great posts, added to reps

[Guest snowdog]

is it cheating to vote on your own poll?

[Sarah]

is it cheating to vote on your own poll?

ummmmmmmmm nope

[valkyries]

yes lol ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[valkyries]

but i do lol

[Guest snowdog]

belly laff xx

[Guest snowdog]

now i cant decide, am i undecided or yes maybe! lol

[valkyries]

i think your a yes maybe

[Guest snowdog]

yup thats what ive put lol x

[SarahNukka&Shadow]

Hey snowdog,

Maybe if you wanted to combine fostering and puppy rearing, after you've got your research you could indicate to the welfare assosication that you wouldnt mind fostering a pregnant bitch? If they'd let you do that? Maybe an option to combine the two and then after you've seen what its like you could think about breeding your dogs? OOOOh or you could try to contact a breeder whos bitch is due and ask if they'd mind you sitting in on the birth? get some real first hand knowledge that way! Just ideas hope they help!

[Sarah]

great idea sarah added to rep

[Guest snowdog]

Thats a great idea sarah, i like that, i will get in touch with, hmmm i need to find a reputible breeder who would let me watch though, i will get checking that out, as ive been wondering if when it actually came to it i could be 100% not a wreck, bad enough with the smaller animals ive assisted giving birth, but a sibes really different, ill look into itxx

[Guest snowdog]

Actually sarah thats such a good idea, i will put a thread up to ask if anyone knows ofa reputable breeder who would allow me to witness a birth , thankyou.

[terrysibe]

I have stayed out of this until today,

This morning we took in 4 12 week old puppies, shocking you I hope so, nice family had the dogs a couple of years until they thought that they would like a litter of pups,

Then it all went wrong, mum needed a C section and out of 7 pups all died but 4, mum who upto now was a wonderful family pet, got on well with the cat etc,

went into labour, passed first pup and killed it, 4 hours later and still straining nothing so was rushed to the vet, puppy was stuck in the passage, Bitch was now frantic, screaming and biting at her stomach drawing blood on herself and the family and vet,

She was so distressed that she bit her mum really badly, they managed to get a sedative into her and get her on the operating table, the rest of the pups delivered safely,

While waiting for mum to come round they gave the pups a little feed and put them in a warm box to take home, the vet advised the family not to put the pups on the bitch until she was fully awake and showed no signs of aggresion towards the family or the pups,

So when mum was up and about they noticed that she seemed to be searching almost franticly for her pups, so they put them in the welping box and took mum in, mum sniffed the pups and then suddenly started to tear them apart, the family dived in to pull her off, sadly she killed another 2 pups,

They rang the vet and told them what had happened and that they felt it would be better to put mum and pups to sleep. the family felt they couldn't trust her anymore.

the vet then took the pups to hand rear as they could not face loosing them too, they had to be tube fed straight into their tummys as they had no swallow reflex,

then when they were 8 weeks old they handed them into the rspca, who have today relinqished them to us,

What did the family get out of letting their bitch have just one litter a 5.700 vet bill a dead sibe that they had loved for many years and total heart break

Yes I am crying as I type this,. but I want everyone to understand what its really like to breed just one litter, we have had more puppies in this year than ever before and they are all from people who just want their bitch to have one litter,

As most of you would know we had pups recently from out Ch bitch and a Crufts qaulified for life stud dog, both happy healthy dogs, mum has totally rejected the pups and they are now with a foster mum. without her we could have lost all of them,

Please think again,

Terry

[Guest snowdog]

That is a heartwrenching , horrific thing to happen and this is why i am undecided and i understand both bad and good sides, and as i say i may decide to adopt a pup instead, or foster im not sure, but i understand the horrific risk that you take when you decide to breed just for one litter or more, and again i may enquire into fostering or give an unwanted pup a home for life as they deserve it, thankyou for the post x

[Sarah]

That's heart wrenching

[Chewbacca_&_me]

Hi there,

Of course there are are always good stories about puppies being born.

If you are prepared and make sure to keep an eye on your pooch as she gives birth, then the chances of a serious problem are greatly reduced.

When My parents were breeders in the 90's we had several normal healthy litters with no serious problems. I think we had 6 or 7 litters with maybe 6 to 9 pups each.

Births can be wonderful and exciting.

I apologize If you felt that I was heckling you, I promise that I wasnt.

I hope if you do decide to have a litter that everything turns out wonderfully.

[Sarah]

I witnessed Kasier's litter being born and had tears in my eyes - that was a happy birth, mum was great she cleaned them and was a star, we could handle the pups and move them whilst she was giving birth to another, just remembered i got a vid of one being born i've posted it before but here it is again if you've not seen one before

[terrysibe]

Tell me about it, I don't often put my oar in on threads, but am shocked that those who have the "I want a litter and I know best brigade" try to convince people its okay to put a bitch that they say they love through what can be a most traumatic time, is beyond me,

As people who knows and have met us, know that we take our dogs very seriously and have for over 16 years, call us snobs or what every makes you feel good,

But my Stance is we are guardians of this wonderful breed and we should take every step that what ever we breed is a fantastic example of the breed, working showing and most of all temperament,

We all think our dogs are perfect examples of the breed, ( I know my dogs faults better than anyone)

Also can tell people about our foster doggie that has been with us for nearly a month, he came to us for a holiday 9 weeks ago and I noticed that his eyes are cloudy, i asked the owner could I take him to my vet as i was worried about his eyes,

Dually dragged poor Mick over to the vets and they confirmed that he had major cataracts in both eyes and would need sugary urgently,

he had his op 3 weeks ago cost 3500 to date, took him back to the vets today as I was worried about one of his eyes, to be told he had developed Glaucoma in one of his eyes, another 980 today bill, he now has to have drops 4 times a day 5 sets of, he may have to have drops for the rest of his life, or loose his eye ,

The breeder is going to find himself on the end of a major law suit as he is responsible for his bitches eye tests being done. this could go in mega bucks

Just something else to think about