Alex T Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 When we first got Isis she used to bite/ nip at all of us - but each and every time she did, we used to go over to her and gently hold her mouth closed and say "no bite" in an authoritive manner. It took some time but she has now stopped biting! As for the walking issue - we have begun to train Isis with the "on by" command, but this in itself needs her to see us as the alpha. So we have started distracting her with treats - if we see an issue arising we place a treat in a closed hand and put it at her level so she can smell it as she walks along - we then say "on by" as we get to the issue and if she ignores it she gets the treat! It could be useful to find out what drives your dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 First of all, Sammie, I just wanted to say I'm really glad to hear that you are wanting to persevere with Suka I would like to know how you would perhaps go about stopping a husky from barking as you walk down the street, he barks at everyone we pass, every dog we pass, and he pulls in the direction to get to these people/dogs...we have tried the leave command but he is almost hell bent on going over to them, and i know its not necessarily to be aggressive, but its bad doggy manners, and it can come across as aggressive to those that do not know the breed. I tried distraction today and it works to a degree, is that the way forward or am i setting him up for something worse? I would guess the problem is that he sees those kinds of distractions (i.e. other dogs) as much higher value then he sees you. On a scale of one to ten, with ten being the highest value, what value do you think Suka has of other dogs? Think about it, and then think on a scale of one to ten, what value you believe Suka has for you. What you need to work on is Suka seeing you as a higher value then the things he finds most distracting. Don't make it too hard for yourself by plunging in head first, start in a lower distraction environment like the backyard, get him focusing well on you, and then slowly increase the level of distraction (i.e. start training outside the front of your house). Don't set him up to fail by asking for him to focus on you when the level of distraction is too high. It has to be gradual, otherwise you will get no where and you will always be fighting for his attention. Think about what Suka values, and what is really exciting to him, in terms of rewards/motivation. Does he go nuts for food? Any food in particular? Does he prefer toys over food? Think about what you can use and have special treat reserved only for when you are training with him. If you are going to train with food, I would stop giving him treats except for when you train with him, so those training sessions become even more exciting for him. Use high value food like chicken, sausage, cheese etc. And as I said above - start in low distractions and work your way up to high distractions. He is most of the time a really good lil puppy, he just has these scary moments that make you sit back and wonder what is going to happen if we cannot rectify this now. It is pretty normal to have those 'what have I done?' moments when training a difficult pup. One big tip I can give is if you are feeling frustrated or over whelmed, to walk away and give yourself a time out and come back to training when you are in the right mind frame. If you are feeling frustrated etc Suka will pick up on even the slightest body language you give and it will make training that bit harder. I will help andy for now and see what can be done, but it really is up to andy to step up and take the reins on this because suka has to listen to everyone not just me. I don't want to rehome him, and i know it will break andy's heart if we have to, it has been his dream to own a sibe since he was a little boy. I also know despite suka biting my daughter, she loves him to bits and talks about him all the time, and i simply cannot give up on a dog that is such a big part of our lives. I will also go along to the next dog training session and ask them for advice to see if there is anything else they might suggest. There is nothing wrong with you being the main trainer, if you want to be. My dogs are expected to obey everyone in the house hold but I am the one who does the training and I am the definite 'alpha'. I would just focus on working through this stage in Suka's training as effectively as you can, and then worry about who will take over the reins once you get through this rough patch. If you start going to dog training and handling Suka you might find yourself enjoying it more than you expect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 good reply bec added to rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 excellant post bec, added to rep It is pretty normal to have those 'what have I done?' moments when training a difficult pup. One big tip I can give is if you are feeling frustrated or over whelmed, to walk away and give yourself a time out and come back to training when you are in the right mind frame. If you are feeling frustrated etc Suka will pick up on even the slightest body language you give and it will make training that bit harder. I found this when lead training with my boys, I would become easily annoyed if they lunged in front of me, etc or if someone else just was being arrogent and I certainly could tell the difference in my boys behaviour and it definately became more difficult to train them whilst I was feeling stressed, anxious, etc. So now, even around the home, if I do get those :mad: moments or :icon4: moments then I leave the area where the dogs can go and go somewhere else where they dont and calm down before going back to them and if we on a walk and these tension moments arise then I will walk away from the situation where possible as to keep the tention levels to an absolute minimum. If they do happen to arise, as Im sure we all know its impossible to avaoid all of them, then I will not do any training but try to get the tension level back down by chilling out and maybe playing tug or something with them which so far seems to work so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Thanks Amy and Sarah! I also meant to add that I would be putting Suka on a long line whenever he is outside when your daughter is playing, that way you can have more control over him and reel him back if he is getting too rough. He needs to learn some manners as puppies can get easily excited around kids as they are at 'their' level, often run around and can speak or squeal excitedly in a high pitched tone which can make the dog in turn get excited and carried away. I would watch for signs that Suka is getting excited (it might be when your daughter is running around or playing, as this in turn makes him want to play and gets him over excited) and preempt any chance he has to get involved. I'm not sure what the kids were doing when Suka was playing with them i.e. if you daughter was running around or jumping about or generally getting excited, but for the moment, I would be teaching the kids that Suka cannot participate in play with them. You don't want Suka to see them as similar to his litter mates, or like his play buddies, so I would not be encouraging him to play with them as such. Teach the kids that they can play with Suka in a calm, structured manner i.e. they can pat him, throw the ball for him, give him a treat if he sits etc but I would be discouraging any play that gets him too excitable. I know the above may sound harsh but I would not be encouraging Suka to participate in play with the kids. They aren't his equal, or his play buddies. Your kids are only young and Siberian males can grow to be close to 30kg in weight and they can be very active dogs. If you let him run around with them and play with them now as a puppy imagine how much more easily he will be able to knock them over once he's fully grown. I teach my dogs to be calm around kids, and I can see signs that they are getting too excitable I call them back to me before they get too into the play. From what you described in your earlier post it sounds like Suka got too excited and carried away when he was playing with your daughter and he tried to play with her in that rough mouthy way pups play with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 thanks for that advice, i will certainly try and become a better focus for suka, i didn't really want to be the main handler as i have said, andy really would love to take this role, but we will see how things go, it might be that suka has a preference to my tone of voice than andy's or his body language is different to mine. I think a lot of sukas issues are related to his early weeks of life, he needs a lot more socialisation and a lot of patience. I have to remember we are about to change everything he has ever known, and that isn't going to happen in a day. On the plus side, he hasn't yet snapped today and is being relatively quiet for suka, last night he was really noisy so i just said 'quiet' everytime he barked, and each time i did he shut up momentarily until eventually he shut up for the rest of the night, i can only imagine what my neighbours must think lol. We are really hoping to be able to come to the meet so he can socialise with his own kind, and it will be great to see how he reacts to the whole situation. Thanks for all the help we really do appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 hey thats great that he was good last night n this mornin wud b good 2 bring him to socialise he cud meet bings too i dunno y but dogs seem to love bings like over the feild the other day a lab came over 2 us n wasnt keen n looked scared when blaze wanted 2 play but it was fine wit bingo so might b a good socialisation thing there lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 awww really hope you can come to the meet would be great to meet you andy and suka!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 thanks for that advice, i will certainly try and become a better focus for suka, i didn't really want to be the main handler as i have said, andy really would love to take this role, but we will see how things go, it might be that suka has a preference to my tone of voice than andy's or his body language is different to mine. I think a lot of sukas issues are related to his early weeks of life, he needs a lot more socialisation and a lot of patience. I have to remember we are about to change everything he has ever known, and that isn't going to happen in a day. On the plus side, he hasn't yet snapped today and is being relatively quiet for suka, last night he was really noisy so i just said 'quiet' everytime he barked, and each time i did he shut up momentarily until eventually he shut up for the rest of the night, i can only imagine what my neighbours must think lol. We are really hoping to be able to come to the meet so he can socialise with his own kind, and it will be great to see how he reacts to the whole situation. Thanks for all the help we really do appreciate it. Your very welcome, I can tell from your posts how much you love Suka and how you just want to do well by him Do you use the nothing in life is free principle? aka NILIF, where the dog learns that before getting anything of value (i.e. treats, pats, attention, food etc) that he must 'pay' for it first by completing a known command like sit. It is such a simple training program but one that needs to be incorporated into every day life with the dog, in every interaction you have with him, no matter what he wants he must learn that nothing comes for free and that everything he values comes through YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I hope you suceed with Suka and come to the meet next week (3rd May), please keep us updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Bec, we do indeed make him earn everything, he doesn't get attention on his terms, he never has we made that mistake with our lab pup and it took months to rectify his behaviour. He never ever gets given a treat just because, he has to sit, go into a down, or stay/wait and leave...We also never stroke him unless he sits nicely first lol, i won't fuss him if he jumps up i just walk away and he has learnt not to even bother jumping up now. He has to sit and wait for his food also which he has mastered very well, and he listens for our 'good boy' command before he eats it. I am going to persevere with this as it really does work, it worked wonders for our lab and i know with time it will work for suka. He is very very food motivated which is great because i know that eventually i can get him jumping through hoops for me (not literally)... We also will make sure that suka doesn't play rough with the kids, he tends to follow megan around a lot when she is outside, she doesn't jump about a lot but she well i cant even call it running either lol she kinda minces everywhere lol...flits about like a fairy and i think what caught sukas attention was her dress because he started pulling at it and then went for her arm. Megan plays ball with suka and he will retrieve for her and he will stop when she gets bored of playing which is good, i wont let her play raggy with him though as that is only a game for adults who can stand their ground...i read that you have to win the toy at the end or else it shows the dog that they are dominant...suka loves playing raggy but he gets very boisterous and when he starts winding up to that point we give him the leave command and he releases the toy without issue and game is over. just realising how much suka already knows, and there is so much that we havent really told about him...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Sammie it sounds like you are really on the right track so far! You should be proud of the work you've put into him already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 i agree with smeagle, keep going with the good work !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Really sounds to me like its as much Andy who needs the training as Suka ..... Is Andy there when you are doing this training? Only asking, as I have said before I had the same (if not worse) problem as Andy which stemmed from a complete fear of dogs altogether. Funny thing is I dont know where it came from as I had a German Sheperd as a young child. I found it very hard to be authoritive as my instinct was that if I was authoritive, then so would the dog be. It stems pretty much from doing the same with dogs as you do with another person. When speaking to someone you wouldnt use a certain tone if you think someone is agressive as you would be wary of the reprisals. Andy has to understand, as I did, that they are animals that are run by instinct and instinct alone. If you are not the leader, you are not the leader. There is no half way house or thought involved in the process, your either higher or your not. The tone Andy uses from what you have described has to change, and with that so will the mentality. So in summary @Sammie - I would seriously suggest Andy training Suka, but with you as his lead letting him know what he's doing wrong etc and trying to change that. The weakest person in the family should be the pack leader, not the strongest. This way you can control Suka in a happy environment all the time rather than when your around. @Andy - You gotta let her lol ... I know that sounds a ridiculous comment, but I know from my own experiences its not too easy at times to be told your doing it wrong, and accepting the change. Its also not easy to change the way you act and speak with the dog, but you gotta do it m8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 good reply marc, added to rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 So true Marc - dogs know when they are dealing with someone who they can take advantage of. I think a lot of people think being assertive is the same as being aggressive, and worry that if they are too firm the dog will no longer like them (there are a surprisingly amount of people who think this!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 good reply marc added to rep You listen ??? never lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 I 100% agree with you Marc, Andy does need some training in order to be a confident handler as he really isn't that confident in his skills as a handler. Andy infact lacks confidence in general and i think Suka has picked up on this and being an intelligent pup he has learnt how to best exploit Andy's personality...Just to demonstrate that Suka is completely willing to learn i have done some work with him today which i video'd and what a difference...here is a few short clips Excuse the voice, i sound about 5 years old and the high pitched 'good boy' seems to keep him focused lol. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxNESBLTpqU[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvGaDlp0gCs[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEZEuwGn410[/ame] This is the clip ^^ That he decided to try and nip me when i tried to stroke him, i verbally corrected him and he backed off and didn't attempt that again. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm9fUKGfCA8[/ame] And as i always used to end the training of our lab on a positive note, i did so with suka and he demonstrated he can leave when instructed to do so Positive things so far, and he seems really content for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 well done in the vids sammie I think that getting andy to do this also will help alot as will help andy to become more autoritive with Suka, maybe you could do this first and then andy follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex T Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Wow some great vids there - congrats on the training! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 he looks very well behaved in those pics and its good 2 c u correct him when he/as hes about 2 bite u! great vids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 great vids, well done !! he sits lovely! Kaiser is doing that at the moment where suka tries to bite you, i end up tapping him on his nose lol must be a puppy thing, although kimba didn't do it - men!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 hehehe thanks, he does sit well, i found for now just verbally reprimanding Suka seems to work, he did get a tapped nose when he bit Megan though...He is currently guarding outside in the back garden, i think he got spooked by something/someone because he is stood to attention barking and growling like a beast out there, i can't get him to come in, he won't even let me out there...i think he thinks i'm gonna get hurt lol...I'm sure when he realises nothing is there he will come back in, i could only distract him for maybe half a second before he was right back there on alert. Is this something they all do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 maybe he's being protective? or just seen a mouse or something and doesnt know what to do , not sure, my boys haven't done anything like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 hahaha i think he is unique, he really didn't want me to go out there and check it out, i left him to it and he has just done one final lap of the garden, and came back in so i think he is satisfied that nothing is there...i am keeping him in now though, where i live this breed is very sought after and we have been approached several times asking if we want to sell him to them, and if he is pedigree etc... That's actually the first time i have seen him so alert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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