Sarah Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Ok, I think we all know how difficult a Sibe can be to train (if not impossible) to recall, have you managed to make any progress with this?? If so - please feel free to share your sucess stories!!!! Kimba won't come if i call him by his name but if whistle he is at my side in seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ive only just started this method so not sure if it definately works but its fun aswell and that is: Playing fetch with them. I bought a hard rubber ball the other day and Ive been throwing accross the room for the dogs and then when they catch it I call their name (whoever caught it) and if they come straight back to me I give them a small treat. Bandit loves it and is progessing slightly. Marley isnt too sure about how it works yet but Im certain as soon as he knows that he gets a treat when he comes back with the ball (as food driven as he is) he will soon get the idea. Gizmo is sort of into it but it usually depends on what is going on around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I have tried loads with Smithy, freshly cooked chicken (at home he will jump through hoops for them), special treats, high pitched voice (sounding very girly), run in the opposite direction calling his name, whistle, but alas no, until now - wait for it, I shout " Where's Barney" and he's there by my side every time. Now I hear you ask who's Barney, well he is the next door neighbours CAT . he doesn't eat with Barney, has never met him face to face, doesn't socialise with him, but it works so hey ho will continue till he gets bored... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie62 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 smithy got to try that one ... mine would not no recall if it hit them in the face lol ...having four is a bit hard , need to do one on one . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 will let you know lol!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 our 2 will come for any treats or a rattly bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Mine come for clicker or a whistle as they know they get a treat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Micha has pretty reliable recall, I can guarantee when we are training that he will come 100% of the time, as with various other places that I have been able to test him within the confines of leash laws. I think it is really important to do all you can to teach your Sibe recall, because you just don't know when you are going to use it. I had a tradesmen doing yard work for us (the dogs were locked inside) and I thought he had closed the side gate properly when he hadn't - Micha was let out of the yard and I ran out to the front and called him.... THANK GOD for recall training because he turned around and came running home! I start training on a lunge leash and in low distraction environments and go from there. The best motivation/reward to use for your dog is what it's strongest drive is - if it has a strong prey drive, go with a toy; if it has a strong food drive, go with food; if it has a strong pack drive use attention/pats as the reward. I mentioned this in another thread - when training one of the most important things is to make sure you don't set them up to fail. For eg - I will not call my dogs to come when I know they are not going to comply, because I never want them to learn there is a time they hear a command and can decide not to comply. I don't work my bitch off leash (for eg) in an area where I know the distraction level is too high for her to give me guaranteed focus. That is why I think it is really important to build up the dog's focus gradually and start training in lower distraction areas and work your way up to higher levels of distraction and start proofing all over again. The moment the dog learns that they don't have to respond to the recall command, the command itself loses its effect because they've learned they can ignore it and comply with it on their terms and when they feel like it. With Sibes this is particularly dangerous as once you give them an inch they will take a mile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskyluv Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Recall?! What's recall?! We've worked on recall with training treats and after 17 months it's not great but it is pretty good. Unfortunately I had his recall tested a few months ago when we were running him out at an unfenced field right next to a busy road during the morning rush hour. I dropped his lead when he took off running away unexpectedly. My heart dropped and I called out his name and he came to a dead stop and waited for me to walk over to him and I quickly grabbed his lead. Whew! Relief! It wasn't perfect recall but I'm just glad he stopped and waited for me to reach him. I wouldn't expect that response though if there was a distraction like a rabbit or something. He has also slipped out the front door three times (off lead) and all three times he came running back when called. Two of the times he slipped out the front door was due to guests in our house leaving the front door open. :mad: Ha ha, at the off lead dog park I might as well not exist. Seriously though he is getting much better but I will never expect it to be great. I am mainly concerned about training for insurance purposes, like if I ever drop the lead or he slips out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feral2008 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 my first sibe was brilliant. responded to hand signals, and well I just trained her like I would a collie. which made the two I have now feel like hell on four legs. if there is food in my hand and a fence around them they are great. Just dont take either of those things out of the equation.. lol I saw a lady letting a husky run off lead at a dog show with no fence and her little tip was she just educated it like you a german shepherd dog. I just reckon she had a rare husky that had hearing.. lol Leesa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well I tried the ball thing (as mentioned in my first reply) and Bandit has got really good with it, Marley only comes when he know theres a treat (bless him) and Gizmois getting better too. I must say Bandit has made the most improvement with recall and is even learning retrieval as if Gizmo or Marley has pinched something of the side (i.e. TV remote) Bandit will get it off them and bring it over to me I will it admit its not every time but for Banidt thats brilliant as he is usally the mischief maker, bless him. None of them are good at recall on walks but with the lead training im doing they are getting on really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well I tried the ball thing (as mentioned in my first reply) and Bandit has got really good with it, Marley only comes when he know theres a treat (bless him) and Gizmois getting better too. I must say Bandit has made the most improvement with recall and is even learning retrieval as if Gizmo or Marley has pinched something of the side (i.e. TV remote) Bandit will get it off them and bring it over to me I will it admit its not every time but for Banidt thats brilliant as he is usally the mischief maker, bless him. None of them are good at recall on walks but with the lead training im doing they are getting on really well. I've never heard of this technique before SW, you will have to update us as you progress with it and let us know how it works! Micha loves to retrieve but only because he loves chasing things and just wants me to throw the ball again, hehe We don't do it as much now as I don't want him to see the reward (his "prey item", the ball) as being so far away from me. He starts to focus too much on the ball and not so much on me, so instead I have been training him, bouncing the ball and letting him catch it as a quick reward as opposed to throwing it a far distance. I'd tug with him, but he isn't interested, he won't even grab the toy - he just wants me to throw it LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 The way Ive doing it is not using their names for disipline, which can be the most difficult thing sometimes. I just make sure I got their fave treats with me and place him in a sit using his name and a treat. Then I simply roll the ball (like you would a bowling ball, just not as hard) let him catch it and then I call his name and when he comes back I give him a treat. I am hoping that they will associate their name being called with a treat and fuss and so, feel more inclined to come back. When we have the garden secured properly with some 6ft wooden fencing I hope to start doing it outside with them too in the graden but at the moment the ball can easily be lost in the 12ft hedge that goes around the garden so we are hoping to get something more secure to go along the bottom to hide the gaps. I never heard of the technique but when Banidt had a ball at Christmas I discovered how much he loved chasing it so to be honest the idea just popped into my head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyrayn Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Tikaani will turn and recal at full speed on a whistle ... Nikita will think about then plod back to me lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneakersmama Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Sneakers comes fairly well inside if I call. I started with calling and rattling the treat bag, then slowly moved to just having a treat with me already and giving it when he came. I had read in a puppy book to do this instead of chasing him when he grabs toys and stuff and runs. It has really worked. Altough I'm starting to suspect he more than occasionally grabs stuff and runs so he can get a treat. I have stopped doing the treats every single time and he does still come. He's not doing so well on coming when called out side. If it's just the two of us he will, but if the kids are closer or he hears the neighbor behind the fence or a kid playing out front or anything involving another person forget it. Of course, I've never been a big fan of allowing dogs off leash outside of the fenced yard so hopefully it won't become to big of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 SM... have a read of my post in the swimming thread. I don't let my dogs off leash a lot (although we do a lot of off leash training) because of restrictive leash laws here, but I put a lot of time and energy into training recall as you will never know when you are going to need it. Even though most Sibe owners will tell you never to let your Sibe off leash, I was always worried about what would happen if my dog got out of the yard or somehow got off the leash. Over the last six years or so I have definitely had accidents happen, including being out on a walk where Micha's collar broke loose, and one occasion where his leash snapped. I've had my elderly grandma not close the front door properly and let him out, and I've also had workmen on the property who failed to close our gate properly. In those situations I was so thankful I had taught Micha a proofed and reliable recall because I was able to get him back quickly and safely. I don't agree that Sibes cannot be taught a reliable recall as I know quite a few trainers who have achieved it but it is not something that can be done easily without the guidance of an experience trainer or behaviourist (IMO) - however I think we should all do our best to teach recall as you never know when you are going to need to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates of the caribbean Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Hi , I find saying "whats this" works with my more stubborn dog. The other will generally come back when I call him or for a treat. My girl dog (the more stubborn one) is very fussy with treats but I have found some that she likes eventually. At the "Pets At Home" place they do cheese biscuits and frankfurter style sausages and both dogs love these. Obviously it is best done on an empty stomach so they are hungry enough to want the treat. : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates of the caribbean Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I also make sure they have had about an hours exercise before I let mine off because then I know they wont be too full of energy and excitement and so are more likely to come back. Plus I try and act like a dog pack leader when they are off, I keep moving around confidently and do not keep checking where they are all the time (or try and make it unnoticeable to the dog) as this is only something a follower or human would do and I dont panic that they wont come back as again a dog leader wouldnt . A dog leader knows that his pack will stay by him as this confidence is what makes him a good leader. I think you need to try to assert yourself as pack leader in every aspect of your relationship with your dog too. Obviously every dog is a bit different. If it ever fails I will rattle a treat bag, show treats and shout "whats this" and/or move in opposite dirrection, calling them or making clicking noises or clap my hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 In general terms yes it is important to be a pack leader but there is a lot more to training than just being the 'dominant' one. A dog who catches sight of prey and goes into full prey drive isn't going to care about the pack leader, the drive motor pattern in the dog's brain is a subconscious reaction to a stimuli and as such, they won't hear you calling after them and their pain thresholds become very high (because of the adrenalin in their bodies). I personally prefer to train my dogs when they are excited and full of beans as I get much more energy from them and I can rev them up more easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates of the caribbean Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 yes obviously, its like the dog whisperer says they are always an animal first then dog then breed then personality etc ans so that is the animal bit in them showing itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 yes obviously, its like the dog whisperer says they are always an animal first then dog then breed then personality etc ans so that is the animal bit in them showing itself. Which is why it is hard, unless you have done drive specific training which can be quite complicated, to say it is just about teaching them the command and then being the pack leader (not saying this is all you do but just talking in general terms). It is the old scenario of would your dog still comply if a rabbit ran past... it was the conundrum I had when I first started training my scent hound for competitive obedience, we got to the level before the trialling class before I decided that there had to be a more effective way to train with her instinct instead of working against it. She was ok eventually at our club, but what if I went to a different club to trial and she couldn't keep her nose off the ground? Hence why I stopped going to club and looked into alternative training, now we are doing a one-on-one drive training program and I hope to trial her for her obedience title later in the year. Anyway I guess my long winded point is basically that I wouldn't let my Sibe off leash in an unfenced area unless I knew I could call him off the ultimate distraction of "the rabbit". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Even though most Sibe owners will tell you never to let your Sibe off leash I can stronley agree with you there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 i can stronley agree with you there! me 2 ........xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 me 2 ........xx I hope you didnt learn it the same way I did. I learnt the hard way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I hope you didnt learn it the same way I did. I learnt the hard way! No, I learnt the hard way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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