Little Wolf Nala Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 So Nala - the love of my life, my baby, my best firend - is only these things to me. She is not particularly fond of anyone else really. Even living with my parents and siblings for entire 4-year life, she is still semi-nervous around them for some reason. And don't even get me started on strangers. For anyone who read our intro, I am moving into an apartment soon and being a twenty year old making this break for the very first time, I'm sure you can assume that I will be having roommates. My future roommates came over one day and I wanted them to meet the furball they would also be rooming with, they came inside, behaved calmly (so none of that high pitched getting all up in her face nonsense), and I had Nala on a leash. So Nala is obviously excited (or nervous, she does like a high pitched whining/talking thing when new people come over) and she is rubbing up on my new roommate, thinking nothing of it, she reaches down and pets her head. To which Nala growls aggressively and (I think, I couldn't see very well) snaps at her This is not the first time she has behaved like this. She has bitten my brother twice - under circumstances that no one is particularly sure of because no one else was in the room either time and he is 8 years old so of course he says she just bit him out of nowhere. And she has "bitten" my boyfriend once - this one I witnessed firsthand. She play-fights with the family's beagle regularly (she has never hurt the beagle or even attempted to, just play growls and fights), and my boyfriend came from England to meet me and my dog for the first time and when he saw this play fighting he didn't realize it was harmless. He attempted to intervene when he thought Nala might hurt Molly and Nala turned to growl or snap at him and caught his nose. Witnessing this first hand, I am not trying to defend her, but I don't think she meant to bite him, I think she just meant to snap and her tooth grazed him, but I'll include a photo of his injury and you guys can be the judges. So all in all, I am worried about what may happen when we move into this apartment. She has even had a slight attitude with me lately - if she is standing right in my way and won't move on her own and I just nudge her (literally a nudge) she will growl and sometimes even snap. When she was younger, I took her out to Petsmart regularly to socialize her with both people and dogs, and she did fine back then, but as an adult (both of us) I haven't had time to come home from work and drive half an hour to get to the city to socialize her. I am hoping that with this move to the city, I can get her out and walk her around the complex and the surrounding areas for her to be around strange people regularly. One more thing that should be noted, I have attempted to train her professionally twice, both pretty unsuccessful because she is impossible to motivate, especially when out in public. She won't do anything for treats, toys, clicks, or whistles. I mean how do you train a dog that doesn't want any kind of reward? Please please help lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Firstly it sounds like fear aggression...she bites/snaps because she is afraid (and under socialized like you mentioned). Just so you know the growling is a good thing and should not be punished, it's their way of warning that a bite will follow, it means that she's very uncomfortable with the situation My boy Tsunami started having fear anxiety after he got neutered this January. He does not get aggressive, he's totally on the opposite being scared to the point he peed himself or ran away! I've worked on him now for 4 months and he's improved that I can now take him to doggie playdates at the park, but still cannot walk him out of the yard, he has to go in the car or he doesn't feel safe! What you're describing about her not doing anything for treats or not taking food outside is because of fear...she is so afraid of the environment change that she only focusses on her surroundings! It takes Tsunami 3 or more visits to a new place before he will take treats or even start to relax. You have to start training inside the house first, where she's 100% comfortable, then move to outside in the yard, outside the yard etc...it takes weeks or months to get progress, but it does get better if you are willing to keep working on it. If you'd like to read more about Tsunami's long road to being social again, see this thread: Also read this article, it helped me a lot https://positively.com/contributors/the-first-step-to-take-to-help-a-fearful-dog/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 I actually read your thread last night! I am just glad to know that I am not the only one with this issue. Aside from not getting out enough, she hasn't had any trauma in her past that would make her act this way. Unless being taken from her mother too soon would still have an impact on her now? I knew little about huskies when I got her and the breeder lied saying she was 8 weeks old, when in fact she was a mere 5 weeks old. But in their defense, the mother was rejecting all of her pups, biting them when they tried to nurse. And I find the most disheartening of all is her attitude towards me. She has always respected and loved me, even when she hasn't anyone else. So things like nudging her out of the way and her snapping at me are making me wonder what's going on there? Unless maybe she somehow knows we're moving and she's nervous about it? I have boxes piled up in my room so? I know you said to start in the house, but should I start with bringing people into the house? Or do you think she might be territorial in that kind of situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Oh yes, definitely if she was taken away from her mom at 5 weeks it could explain her issues of not coping now! It's not always trauma that triggers it, but I'd say moving will be a traumatic thing for her, so yes she's experiencing trauma now... The moving boxes, your behaviour changes of being excited to move out, the packing, meeting your roommate all of these things add up and makes her even more insecure! (And that's traumatic for her, she's not coping!) I had a Border Collie who would freak out if I just packed an overnight bag...everytime he saw me packing he thought he was going to be seperated from me Dogs are super smart noticing just the slightest changes...you might not even notice or think it means something, but to her she could have her whole world upside down now! Maybe she thinks you are leaving without her... Has she been to your new place? What kind of training have you done with her, things like the basics: sit, down, stay, leave it, or anything else maybe like tricks or targeting etc? She needs to know the basics before you can trust her with people... So if you can put her in a reliable sit/stay or down/stay you can start with introducing a stranger, but only in the house for quite a few times and without touching her at first let them talk to her from a distance and let her just watch them. Then you could move onto having people come closer or letting her approach people. She will need to be comfortable around people first before she will allow being touched. And if people have to touch her remember not over or on her head, they should hold out their back of the hand towards her and let her sniff it first. If she's okay with this they can touch or rub her under the neck...but not if she growls, then she's not ready and warning to stay away! Also read this about puppies being taken away from their mom too soon, might make you understand some things more: http://www.snowdog.guru/true-cost-early-removal-puppy-mother-litter-mates/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 She hasn't been there yet, and move in day is about a week and a half away. She knows sit, stay, shake, wait, leave it, and out (if she's in a room she's not supposed to be in), but she does not perform them reliably - only when she's in the mood for it. This goes back to the lack of motivation thing, treats, toys, clickers, and an obedience whistle - she will have none of it (if she's not in the mood, even at home with nothing bothering her and she's completely serene). What's odd is she has never played with toys really, and never been particularly fond of food period. Luckily my boyfriend will be flying in this week, so it will be a new (ish) face in the house to help me socialize her before we move. As for walking her out in public, how can I kindly tell people not to pet her until she is comfortable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingsolo Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 You can get leads that say it clearly https://www.amazon.com/NERVOUS-PREVENTS-Accidents-Warning-Advance/dp/B00BXL66IU here is an example. Very clear to humans who will hopefully respect it. Good luck with your move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 @goingsolo That's a great idea, whoever thought it up! I will definitely look into getting one, and a harness too maybe. Thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmscott Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 · Hidden Hidden Does she happen to be from a breeder in Camden? I would consult with a canine behaviorist. Avoid any trainer using the alpha/dominance theory. Link to comment
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 @jmscott I don't believe so, I don't quite remember to be honest. It was not any kind of sophisticated operation though. They posted the litter on craigslist and even with that wouldn't allow you to pick a puppy from the photos when you contacted them, they just said they would be in the Walmart parking lot at so and so time and it was first come first serve. Kinda sketchy now that I look back on it, but I was sixteen and I just wanted a puppy lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmscott Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 · Hidden Hidden There is a very popular breeder that used to be in GA. I see a LOT of frightening temperaments being produced. You really do not want to mess around with fear aggression. I myself have had to put one rescue dog down because of the level of agression. Until you find a trainer, look up Suzanne Clothier training articles on aggression. A lot of people find their first dogs in the newspaper. Here's a couple great articles for when you look for your next Sibe.http://www.keahisiberianhuskies.com/blog/how-to-decode-puppy-ads http://www.keahisiberianhuskies.com/blog/why-choose-responsibly Link to comment
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 @jmscott Oh dear, I really hope it never comes to that. Although I am afraid that if she bites someone at the apartment and I have to give her up, no one else will be willing to work with her and it will come to that. My biggest road block is my family at the moment. Even today I thought I would take @loudlucky's advice and go out in the yard with her and just let her get calm there. My family (whom she lives with, so there's no unfamiliarity there) was at the pool, so I thought I would sit on the deck with her (on a leash because she's not allowed in the pool) and let her calm down and relax. During this attempt, my 9 year old brother who is hyperactive jumps and squeals and runs around her and gets up in her face, making her nervous, and despite my asking numerous times he refused to calm down around her. So I am hoping that getting away from the chaotic vibes my brother gives off will do both of us some good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmscott Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 · Hidden Hidden There are some great videos out there for kids to learn safe doggie skills. Get your parents involved. This is safety for him both at home and out in the world. http://stopthe77.com/ http://www.safekidssafedogs.com/ http://www.doggonesafe.com/Dog_Safety_for_Kids 2 Link to comment
Emma Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Ice came to us with fear aggression even though he was only young. Being around young children or adults who don't know how to behave appropriately around animals (too many of my family members fall into that category, lol) really aggravated the situation. He would growl if my kids walked near him whilst he was sleeping and growl if a stranger be it either a man or other dog came near him. Loud and jumpy children running around and yelling, grabbing at the dog etc....is a massive red flag and one that could very well end up in a bite situation. Thankfully my kids were older and calm and I made sure that they knew not to disturb him if he went to his bed or corner of the room to sleep. He settled down this behaviour with my children pretty quickly in the end once he became familiar and Learnt some trust and now he is very relaxed and happy with us all. When we come home he jumps all over us and licks us all to death but strangers was a harder one to tackle. I asked straight away that no one pet him on approaching. After a while he would relax and approach the other person so I then asked that they lightly stroke his head only (for many dogs this is a bad place to stroke but for Ice this is the place he prefers. Don't touch his hind quarters though. He barks and shimmies away). As time went by he became more confident and will now be quite happy to approach new people for a stroke. Regular positive socialisation has helped him with that. The one thing that he still hates is if you try to hug him. He doesn't respond overly aggressively. You will sometimes get a soft growl followed by him backing away and then coming back to lick you. But mostly he just jumps down from the sofa and sighs as he walks off. It is possible to overcome a nervous attitude in some situations but it does take time and you need to be very careful how you handle it. Your future flat mates visiting....to be honest for the time being I would say to simply have them in the room, talking to you and not staring at her or trying to touch her. Even if she rubs around them leave her be for a while. It could be that she didn't see the person was about to stroke her so it startled her when she was already in an unfamiliar situation so she reacted. Sent via the power of rubbish tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I'd recommend getting one of those 'I need space' leashes and a yellow ribbon tied to it (Google yellow ribbon dog project). But also something to consider is first muzzle training her Get her used to wearing an open basket type muzzle (not the fabric kind as they can take that off). Once she's used to wearing it for a few minutes introduce a stranger and see how she reacts. If she does not growl when the stranger approaches praise or treat her. If the stranger can pet her under the chin and she behaves its progress! If she growls at them you will need to break down the steps more and go slower... I know you don't have lots of time and feel frustrated, but you are not going to get anywhere by rushing her The safest thing to start with will be a muzzle, that way you are 100% sure she will not have the opportunity to bite in those situations. You will still need to address the issue and work on socializing as a muzzle cannot be worn all the time! But the muzzle is something that can be trained in a week, proper behaviour for aggression will take lots more time and effort. Does your roommate have any pets or is she familiar with dogs? It would help if she knew a little and also how to read a dog's body language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 @Emma With his ADHD and jumping around and refusing to obey anything I say, my younger brother's presence sets me on edge, so I can only imagine how Nala feels around him lol even if I can't get him to calm down, she and I will be out of this environment very soon (22 of June, to be exact). Which will rattle her at first, but I think in the end the serene environment will do both of us some good. I think I am going to try the keeping her in the same room as guests thing tomorrow though. We are having a BBQ and some people will be over and I would like to just have her in the room. What are your thoughts on restraint in such situations? In our home, should I keep her on a leash, or let her roam freely amongst the people (assuming they will be paying her no mind)? @loudlucky A couple years back I bought a cloth muzzle that was absolutely useless, she pulled it off no problems, but I will look into getting a heavier duty one. I think it would give myself and my friends helping me peace of mind if she couldn't bite even if she wanted to lolhttp://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/the-company-of-animals-baskerville-ultra-muzzle-for-dogs Here's one that I'm looking at getting, it seems decent and allows her to have normal function of her snout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmscott Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 · Hidden Hidden This protocol is intended for food aggression, but might help. https://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/ben_guards_the_food_bowl/ Link to comment
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 @jmscott That was a really interesting method! I always wondered how to train a food aggressive dog. And I think it just might help with Nala if I give the strangers cheese to treat her with (cheese is literally her favorite thing on this planet), if she is willing to take it from them that is. I tried to treat her with cheese while training her with a professional trainer and she refused. But I will try a combination of all of these tips: having her present in the room with strangers with a muzzle on and have them offer cheese to her when she approaches them. Thank you so much for the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmscott Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 · Hidden Hidden The idea is that you don't let her stress having to directly interact with with people. You just have them ignore her and throw food. She slowly learns that these weirdos give her awesome nomnoms, maybe they're not so scary after all. Link to comment
loudlucky Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 11 hours ago, Little Wolf Nala said: @Emma With his ADHD and jumping around and refusing to obey anything I say, my younger brother's presence sets me on edge, so I can only imagine how Nala feels around him lol even if I can't get him to calm down, she and I will be out of this environment very soon (22 of June, to be exact). Which will rattle her at first, but I think in the end the serene environment will do both of us some good. I think I am going to try the keeping her in the same room as guests thing tomorrow though. We are having a BBQ and some people will be over and I would like to just have her in the room. What are your thoughts on restraint in such situations? In our home, should I keep her on a leash, or let her roam freely amongst the people (assuming they will be paying her no mind)? @loudlucky A couple years back I bought a cloth muzzle that was absolutely useless, she pulled it off no problems, but I will look into getting a heavier duty one. I think it would give myself and my friends helping me peace of mind if she couldn't bite even if she wanted to lolhttp://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/the-company-of-animals-baskerville-ultra-muzzle-for-dogs Here's one that I'm looking at getting, it seems decent and allows her to have normal function of her snout. Yes, that's the type of muzzle! She will still be able to drink water with it on see this video of how you might want to introduce it to her... I think Jaimie's recommendation of the strangers throwing the cheese at her (or rather just in front of her lol) would be a good start! They are supposed to be able to eat with that specific muzzle but check it out first to make sure if she can get the cheese and eat it before trying this with her muzzled. Otherwise it will frustrate her more if the cheese is there but she can't get it The muzzle is just meant to be a temporary fix and mainly it keeps strangers and your brother safe until you can begin training her in your new place. The calmness and less people there will be a bonus as she should be more relaxed once she gets to know the place. Remember you might need to start over with potty training as most dogs have accidents in a new place With Tsunami's play dates I asked the people to ignore him and not to talk or pet him even if he approached them! They obeyed and he now approaches them without being scared...now we've moved on to them being able to talk to him when he approaches! He's still not ready for them to pet him, so we're taking it slow... On the treats issue have you tried real cooked chicken? Smokey only works for salmon treats, otherwise only bacon or cheese! She will flat out ignore almost all dog treats or only take it once...the second time she's like nah, that didn't taste good! Tsunami works for most shop bought treats, but will not take a treat outside the yard unless it's real meat and he's been there a couple of times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 @goingsolo That's a great idea, whoever thought it up! I will definitely look into getting one, and a harness too maybe. Thank you! I have an I need space lead for my girl from indi-dog whilst she's not fear aggressive towards humans she is with dogs after being attacked n can be scared of some humans if they crowd her to the point where she tries to slip her collar to run away 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 @jmscott and @loudlucky That is a very informative video and I will definitely use that method when her muzzle comes in, I ordered it last night! And we haven't used real meat treats from what I can recall, so I will try that as well. She is certainly more intrigued by human food as compared to dog treats. @BingBlaze n Skyla And I am considering getting something like that, but I have a feeling that most people probably won't pay attention to the leash. I think I might be better off getting something similar looking to "service dog" blankets, except you know, to say she needs space. Although I suppose the muzzle would deter people as well haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 You can try deli meats or ham, hotdogs, real cooked chicken or turkey pieces or even bits of sausage etc. She's bound to work for one of those! Just cut it up in small pieces and it should get her attention if she smells it! When I took Tsunami to obedience class our way of "cheating" was having a piece of bacon in my pocket! He knew it was there and he would get it after the session was done...so he did what I asked! (The trainer didn't allow giving treats when doing the 'test' at the end) You can take a look through Zak George's Youtube channel, he has lots of useful videos, maybe there are others that can help on aggression I know Indie-dog (one of the forum sponsors) makes an I need space harness, but I'm not sure what you get in the US. The muzzle should deter most people for now, so it gives you time to get a harness or something else like a bandana to warn people... The most important thing when introducing the muzzle is to go slow and to get her comfortable to wear it...if you force it on her too quick, she's going to freak out and get more scared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Wolf Nala Posted June 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 I had her around people for part of the BBQ today, and I think she did alright. I kept her on the leash and she and I sat by a wall and I tried to keep her calm by petting her and using a cam voice. As more people came inside, she began her high pitched crying and was jumping around in attempt to get closer to them. I let her calm down a bit before I allowed her to approach them (she has a tendency to jump up on people in an excited manner and then growl and/or snap at them). Luckily there was no growling or snapping! Since there were so many people around, I decided it might be best to not have treats around her at that time. For the food and pool portion, I let her out with the beagle in a separate area from the people. Aside from the excessive crying, I'd say she did alright - a work in progress at least. @loudlucky How have I never heard of him before?! I really like his videos and I will definitely continue to reference to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Sounds good! I only recently found Zak's videos on Youtube, but they have been a real big help with both dogs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudlucky Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 http://eileenanddogs.com/2016/06/14/dog-isnt-food-motivated/ Read this about food motivation training, might give you some insight why she won't respond to treats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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