Guest Gemma Riley Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 OMG!! You should really do some research into "that BBC documentary" It was not based on facts at all!! Why dont you visit a show for yousrelf instead of basing your opinions on a very one sided biased documentary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 i didnt mean my dogs, there is feck all wrong with my lot,and i challenge anybody to say there is , cause i will set tori on you and she can make your ears bleed at 20 meters so just try it . they r not badly bred, i ment in general, there are loads of ppl on this site who got there dogs from so called crap breeders , some are not kc , some r crosses, so all i was trying to point out is you say you dont have a problem with the dogs them selves , but the breeders , but they r the ones breeding the dogs and if they r sooooo bad they wouldnt be breeding from good quality stock would they , so therefor the puppys wouldnt be good quality either Your dogs are gorgeous Jules Hey can you warn me before hand if you set Tori off so I can get my earplugs well and truly embedded lol :D The KC is responsible for putting a restriction in place for things like that Sarah. unfortunatley it does come down to the person that owns that dog but its easy money to stud your dog out and have no responsablitly for the consequences I have enjoyed reading other peoples point of views. Thanks I wonder if the KC will change their point of view in the future so that males can only sire a certain amount of litters a year? Food for thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK OK I'm gonna ask this nicely ...... Please can we keep this to a conversation and not let it get out of hand. I appreciate this is a 'hot topic' and such, however can we all respect all other members of the forum! Sorry for the bold peeps, just wanted to highlight the fact.. Dont mind the debate but we're all sensible people on here and if you think your gettin out of line when posting (and generally we all know when we do) then please think twice about ripping each other to shreds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 well said marc, im sure there would be a few more quetions asked if you didnt feel you were going to get jumped on for doing the wrong thing, ive had a few questions ive thought about asking and then though nah cant be bothered with the hassle tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I like the way Marc said it best >>. and please keep it clean people or this will be the 2nd post of mine that will be closed >> i'll have a record (lol) and no one will answer my posts >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I like the way Marc said it best >>. and please keep it clean people or this will be the 2nd post of mine that will be closed >> i'll have a record (lol) and no one will answer my posts >>>> LMAO - so it's you that we've gotta throw rotten eggs at is it?? lol Only joking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 i will always answer lol, soryy to have started this off again ,but i was gettin a bit fed up , the tail one a while back really got my goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 OMG!! You should really do some research into "that BBC documentary" It was not based on facts at all!! Why dont you visit a show for yousrelf instead of basing your opinions on a very one sided biased documentary! A show? You mean a glamorised show where everyone is smiling and having 'fun' >> i cant see into their genes can i? I cant see how these dogs are so genetically inbred they are suffering >> dogs will suffer in silence >> Did you watch it? Did you think the woman who knew about her King Charles Cavalier being infected with syringomyelitis and then let him father 8 liiters is responsable? Or the fact she won best of breed?>>> Shall i go to a show she is in with her 'stud' and watch her smile and maybe even listen to her about what a super 'stud' her dog is and how many puppies he has infected? Dog lovers watched that docu and cringed >>> What do you mean it wasn't facts >> A rhodesian ridgeback breeder even stated they kill all their puppies without a ridge >>> responsable to you? And would you class this as fact? Or maybe do you think they paid her off? What about the pug and it's guaranteed 6 hereditory problems........responsable? Yet all these dogs owners seem to also fancy showing as you have advised me to go and see, they seem to enjoy pampering their dogs to make it appear they are healthy and go home with a nice trophy, if i go to a show and encounter one of these 'responsable' dog breeders i might be tempted to thump them! And if it's all rubbish why did the KC advisers and speakers often find themselves stuttering for words admitting "it's in a mess" ..........?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Ah ya see we cant have it both ways ...... We are now saying that it is ok to have a Husky as a pet alone, however breeding them as such, if the breeder knows about the breed and the breeding standards is wrong. That statement in itself contradicts itself. Again I am fully open to the fact that there are people who breed who do not know about them, however by saying that people shouldnt unless they work or show their dogs, we are also saying that they dont know enough about them. I'm a bit confused by the above Marc - probably way too early in the morning over here to be thinking hehe. I thought it's pretty clear that the reason why we talk about reputable breeders showing their dogs and testing their working ability is because they are, well, breeding them, and it's important to make sure that you are breeding with a Siberian that not only meets the breed standard but is a great example of a Siberian. It's not important (generally speaking) for pet owners to show or work their dogs in harness because they aren't going to breed their dogs and aren't contributing anything to the gene pool. Therefore they don't need to test their dogs conformation or working ability except for the fun of it. There is more to breeding any dog of any breed than simply reading the breed standard and deciding of your own judgement that your dog fits it and is worth breeding from. but do you really expect me to believe a show with shampood dogs resulting in the giving out of ribbons is a fair assumption to say you are 'responsable' No one here is saying that showing is the be all and end all. But it is important to have a solid understanding of the breed standard and to have your dog looked over with a critical eye. For example - and I know it's not Siberians - just this last weekend we had a Beagle breed specialty show here and the club flew in a judge from Mexico to look over our dogs. There can be a HUGE advantage and merit in showing your dogs, imagine the feedback the entrants got from an international judge, sometimes it's priceless. Like I said I know some great breeders who don't show for various reasons, but they don't discount the merit and value in showing their dogs and having them looked over by people who know the breed standard inside and out. They are still breeding dogs who are doing well in the show ring. Is that the most important thing to them? Of course not, but it gives you feedback that you are heading in the right direction. >> lets not revisit the BBc docu >> which has more fact than opinion...showing isn't all it's cracked up to be. No, lets not. The only thing that makes my blood boil more than talking about that over sensationalised "documentary" is the fact that people think it is representative of the majority of the purebred dog world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 LMAO - so it's you that we've gotta throw rotten eggs at is it?? lol Only joking haha lmao NOOOO:D:D ...........:ran_mad: i will always answer lol, soryy to have started this off again ,but i was gettin a bit fed up , the tail one a while back really got my goat no it's not anyone's fault, youve got an opnion and so do other members, i think people should listen without jumping down throuts!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I dont think it's a majority >> but the two go in hand, one cannot praise the 'showing system' to death and ignore the bad points, i am merely pointing out that showing has many underlining factors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 There is more to breeding any dog of any breed than simply reading the breed standard and deciding of your own judgement that your dog fits it and is worth breeding from. Very true ... and I'm afraid that if this is the case, there there isnt a single breeder on here no matter how much experience who is qualified... We are all from the wrong climates (with the odd few lucky exceptions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 A show? You mean a glamorised show where everyone is smiling and having 'fun' >> i cant see into their genes can i? I cant see how these dogs are so genetically inbred they are suffering >> dogs will suffer in silence >> Did you watch it? Did you think the woman who knew about her King Charles Cavalier being infected with syringomyelitis and then let him father 8 liiters is responsable? Or the fact she won best of breed?>>> Shall i go to a show she is in with her 'stud' and watch her smile and maybe even listen to her about what a super 'stud' her dog is and how many puppies he has infected? Dog lovers watched that docu and cringed >>> What do you mean it wasn't facts >> A rhodesian ridgeback breeder even stated they kill all their puppies without a ridge >>> responsable to you? And would you class this as fact? Or maybe do you think they paid her off? What about the pug and it's guaranteed 6 hereditory problems........responsable? Yet all these dogs owners seem to also fancy showing as you have advised me to go and see, they seem to enjoy pampering their dogs to make it appear they are healthy and go home with a nice trophy, if i go to a show and encounter one of these 'responsable' dog breeders i might be tempted to thump them! And if it's all rubbish why did the KC advisers and speakers often find themselves stuttering for words admitting "it's in a mess" ..........?? Exactly why Gemma told you to go and see a few shows and meet some showies before casting your judgment on the show world exclusively from a BBC documentary you watched. Do you think all show breeders are like that? I can tell you from personal experience, actual first hand experience, that the BBC documentary does NOT represent the majority of the show world. There is good and bad in everything and to insinuate that documentary is representative of the show world is damn insulting to those who do show their dogs. The chances are that if you actually went to a show you wouldn't encounter anyone like you saw in the documentary because they are in the vast minority. Flame away at the pedigree dog world all you like Ice but let's not forget about the puppy farmers out there who breed bitches til they die, 100s and sometimes 1000s of dogs kept in cages from birth used purely to breed from, they don't clean their faeces up so the dogs have to sit on inches of impacted crap. They can't walk because they've never left their cages. They don't have a name. Forget about health testing or anything like that, puppy farmers don't care if the dogs get sick - they just take them out the back and shoot them. Or should we talk about backyard breeders? You know, Joe Blow who has a nice looking dog (in his opinion) and thinks he can make a quick buck by mating it. Who cares if the breed is prone to hip displaysia, his dog looks ok, and the vet checked over it so he's definitely fit to breed from. His friends said they all wanted a pup so it will be easy to sell them off at $1000 a pup. Sometimes they find all their pups a home, not that they really care where they go to, sometimes they struggle to do so and the pups end up in pet stores or the local pound. They don't know enough about the breed to have bred dog that were going to grow up healthy and strong so a few of the pups end up with temperamental problems (probably because they were rehomed to puppy buyers who are not a good match for the breed), HD, eye problems, skin problems etc etc. Does the BYBer care? Of course not. It's not his fault. My point is that there is good and bad in the dog world. I've not once seen a sick dog at a dog show, or a genetically deformed dog. Are they out there? Probably, but don't let an over sensationalisd documentary fool you into thinking that they are in the majority or that it's pedigree breeders who are the evil of the dog world. There's a hell of a lot more to be worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I dont think it's a majority >> but the two go in hand, one cannot praise the 'showing system' to death and ignore the bad points, i am merely pointing out that showing has many underlining factors No, there are no underlining factors. The people who do the wrong thing when it comes to breeding would do so regardless of if they entered a show or not. They have no ethics or responsibility, this is not going to change if they were no longer able to show. No one has praised showing to "death" and ignored the bad points, as I said, there is good and bad in everything. What some of us have been saying is that there is a lot of merit in showing your dogs, whereas some posters like yourself have been saying there is no value in it whatsoever. Of course I am only talking from my experience, as someone who actually goes to dog shows (just as a spectator at the moment!) and is friends with many people who show. Very true ... and I'm afraid that if this is the case, there there isnt a single breeder on here no matter how much experience who is qualified... We are all from the wrong climates (with the odd few lucky exceptions) Which is why IMO it's important to do as much with your dogs as possible to broaden your understanding of what makes a great dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Bec - I think breeding a bitch until she can no longer stand is equally as sickening as a breeder slowly breeding a dog into death over years of bad breeding. Like i said before i know it's not the majority, yet a significant number to affect the way breeds look and how some are grossly un-healthy and riddled with heritory disease >>> all these years have had an affect on todays dogs and have drawn the media's attention, why show the good side when there's a bad side that needs to be uncovered? It's like showing Hitler at his best painting whilst undergound hundreds of jews are being tortured. I would rather be educated on the bad to amend it and therefore only leave the good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Showing on the surface appears fun and full of merit, however there are breedersin the system who abuse it's shiny, glossy cover and breed impared dogs anyway <<<< this is an underling factor (which is what i meant lol) It's late here im off to beddy byesss, i'll catch up 2mz, have a good sleep all lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Bec - I think breeding a bitch until she can no longer stand is equally as sickening as a breeder slowly breeding a dog into death over years of bad breeding. Like i said before i know it's not the majority, yet a significant number to affect the way breeds look and how some are grossly un-healthy and riddled with heritory disease >>> all these years have had an affect on todays dogs and have drawn the media's attention, why show the good side when there's a bad side that needs to be uncovered? It's like showing Hitler at his best painting whilst undergound hundreds of jews are being tortured. I would rather be educated on the bad to amend it and therefore only leave the good. Why show the good side? Because there is a lot of benefit to showing your dogs, not just to get feedback on the type of dog you are breeding, but because it's a fun dog sport that many people enjoy. I know people who show who may never breed their dogs, it's just like any other dog sport that people enjoy participating in. I am also a firm believer that we should encourage those who are doing the right thing and not slamming them by lumping them in the same category as the minority of people who do the wrong thing. I guess you could also ask the question why talk about the good in purebred dogs overall, why not just focus entirely on the bad? If we're not careful we aren't going to have any purebred dogs in the future. I for one want to see my breed still around and going strong in 20, 50, 100 years. Just look at the countries who are wanting to and are actually banning certain breeds of dog! The BBC documentary has not done the purebred world any favours - come on, comparing purebred dog breeders to Hitler? How disgusting and insulting to the majority of purebred breeders who pour their hearts and souls into their dogs. Sadly people, like yourself, are watching the documentary and getting on the bandwagon of those who are telling us our dogs are crap, unhealthy, we are trying to breed an Aryian race etc. I certainly don't think all breeds are riddled with health problems. I actually think Siberians are one of the healthiest breeds out there. We have GREAT dogs. There are some breeds that I think need an overhaul like German Shepherds but the ball was rolling for a change in the breed before the BBC documentary was made. I think a lot of people who watched that documentary have no idea about the positive action that is already being taken by those involved in the purebred dog world. I'm talking about breed clubs that are funding research into diseases known in the breed, bringing down stricter breeding guidelines to their members, organisations like the MDBA that are working to promote responsible and ethical breeders and much much more. I know it must be hard to look at it from your perspective and see the merit in showing when the only exposure to the show world you've had is a BBC documentary. I just don't think the answer is to slam the pedigree dog world, I think we should be promoting the tonne of good that there is in it and highlighting the breeders who ARE doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Showing on the surface appears fun and full of merit, however there are breedersin the system who abuse it's shiny, glossy cover and breed impared dogs anyway <<<< this is an underling factor (which is what i meant lol) It's late here im off to beddy byesss, i'll catch up 2mz, have a good sleep all lol I don't think it's an underlying evil in the show world - doing the wrong thing is about the person not showing itself, that's what I meant when I said the bad breeders will be bad breeders regardless of if they showed their dogs or not. And that's why every single one of us who have posted in this thread and others about the merits of showing your dogs have said that it's not the be all and end all, and that a good reputable breeder will not rely on showing as the only indicator they have a good dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic_Sibe Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, sorry, but i feel the need to add my tuppence worth in here. We need to stop this them and us atmosphere we're creating here. By them and us I mean owners and welfare. Believe it or not the conversations are not constructive, but destructive to the whole fabric of what this forum is about. I have 100% respect for the work all of SHWA is doing for Huskies all over the country, but it seems that every conversation seems to get back to it being some peoples fault in the forum for the state of Husky welfare. I'd say most if not all of the people in here are responsible owners that have prevented dogs gracing your doors. People in this forum are here for the love of Huskies no matter how they were bred. It's not their fault even if they did inadvertently buy their Husky from a back yard breeder or puppy farm. I'm sure if they knew what they know now some may have steered clear and found a more reputable breeder. Where do we define the criteria that makes a reputable breeder? Do we say that people that race and show dogs are the only responsible and reputable breeders? Hell no, some of these people still overbreed from bitches and do not declare every litter (hence non KC registered) Do we say that Huskies do not get sold to anyone not intending to show or race them? No i don't think so, I have owned Huskies for 19 years as pets only, never raced nor rallied, what's wrong with giving a great dog a loving home? Until legislation is brought in to deal with issues of puppy farms then the problems continue. Let's just help support welfare organisations such as SHWA. You are doing a great job, and we do appreciate it, please though let's not fight amongst ourselves. I've not heard of one person in here that has given up their sibe to rescue, that's not to say some haven't, but it's fair to say most of us wouldn't dream of it. On a final note, would it be wrong of me to show my sibe, and providing she was a good standard of the breed, ie win best of breed on more than one occasion then go on to breed from her with an equally high standard BOB stud, both been health checked, made sure they have different heritage lines and of good heritage? I'm not saying that I am going to do that, but what if all the breed improvement boxes are ticked? All breeders have to start somewhere is the point I am trying to make. Sorry for the rant Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 On a final note, would it be wrong of me to show my sibe, and providing she was a good standard of the breed, ie win best of breed on more than one occasion then go on to breed from her with an equally high standard BOB stud, both been health checked, made sure they have different heritage lines and of good heritage? I'm not saying that I am going to do that, but what if all the breed improvement boxes are ticked? All breeders have to start somewhere is the point I am trying to make. Steve, I think it would be wonderful if you did the above to try and become a responsible breeder. IMO we do not have enough responsible, ethical breeders out there. I think we should be encouraging people to get involved in the breed, and mentoring those who want to know more about breeding. I would rather see more responsible breeders than less of them and instead more of the ones who are not doing the right thing. Let's face it - there is demand there and backyard breeders and puppy farmers know it. I'm not saying that everyone who wants a Siberian should own one, but I know quite a few breeders with waiting lists that are easily a year or two or more long - and that's after they've vetted each potential buyer to see if they would be a good match for the breed. I admit I do find it frustrating when you educate people about buying from a responsible breeder and yet they go out and buy from someone who doesn't even health test their dogs anyway - it's not just about supporting good breeders but giving yourself the best chance to have a healthy and long lived dog! I wouldn't want to gamble on a dog from a BYBer or someone who hasn't even hip scored their dogs, so I find it hard to imagine why anyone else would. Obviously not everyone has the view on it as I do though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I've not heard of one person in here that has given up their sibe to rescue, that's not to say some haven't, but it's fair to say most of us wouldn't dream of it. Some of the people who give up their dogs for rescue have no choice. Circumstances (redundancy, illness, homelessness etc) have made it impossible for them to keep their dogs. There is no shame in this. Unfortunately however, many of the people who give up their sibes do so with as little thought as they gave to getting one in the first place. That is why I believe it would be no bad thing if Sibes were a little scarcer and people had to work a little harder to get one in the first place. It might dissuade some of the people who buy on a whim. On a final note, would it be wrong of me to show my sibe, and providing she was a good standard of the breed, ie win best of breed on more than one occasion then go on to breed from her with an equally high standard BOB stud, both been health checked, made sure they have different heritage lines and of good heritage? I'm not saying that I am going to do that, but what if all the breed improvement boxes are ticked? All breeders have to start somewhere is the point I am trying to make. I think this cuts to the heart of this whole discussion. There are those in the breed who think that no one but themselves should be able to breed and that breeding should be a "closed shop." This is not where I, Gemma or Smeagle are coming from. Far from it, we have helped and encouraged several people to start breeding. It is not the "Who" but the "How." As Smeagle has said, the more good, responsible breeders there are, the better the overall quality of dogs available and the more good quality puppies there will be available for sale to the public. As I and Smeagle and Gemma have said, showing and working your dogs is not the be-all and end-all and on its own does not guarantee that you are a good breeder. I agree that there are those out there who work and/or show there dogs and are still little more than puppy farmers. Working and showing are just two boxes to tick on the long list of what might make you a good breeder. One useful way of looking at the importance of showing and working for someone who wants to become a breeder, is that it is part of an "apprenticeship." By getting involved and asking questions you meet a whole range of people who know much more than you do - about canine construction, about bloodlines, about health, about breed history; and about the practical ways of assessing the quality of your dogs. This "apprenticeship" is invaluable as long as you have an open, critical mind and don't suffer from"kennel blindness" (ie the inability to see any faults in your own dogs). Marc wrote earlier: The point I was trying to make more than anything, is that when anyone on this forum in the past has mentioned the possibility of breeding their animals, it is generally met with the same 'your out of order' attitude by people, when the fact is they are actually being extremely responsible by asking. This is what causes people to lack the nessesary knowledge in the first place and eventually leads to people feeling like they cannot ask questions. I can't personally recall ever telling someone who asked such a question that they were "out of order" - but what I do always do is to ask what I believe are the crucially important questions - Are the dogs KC registered?, Have they been health tested?, How do you know they are breeding quality? Are the pedigrees compatible? etc etc. Those questions are about education, not criticism. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic_Sibe Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Steve, I think it would be wonderful if you did the above to try and become a responsible breeder. Just to clear things up, I am not saying I will breed from Kiana, but merely stating that if all the boxes are ticked is it responsible for someone to start breeding Huskies as a new breeder or will that be frowned upon by the so called 'responsible' breeders who look down their noses at pretty much everyone else but themselves anyway? There is a lot of snobbery in dog breeding anyway, not just in Huskies but all breeds, I am 100% behind breed improvement but you can't penalise people for thinking that they can add something to the breed or shall we just not breed further generations anyway, because at the end of the day who is really right and who is really wrong? There is a huge gap between puppy farmers and the odd 'back yard breeder' that thought they were doing good for the breed. So can we assume that all new breeders could be looked at as 'back yard breeders' until such a time that they prove their responsibility. In the timescale of things how long until we know that this new breeder would be doing things for the good of the breed? Sorry I'm waffling, but the whole issue of people being labelled back yard breeders is far too big to get a true and honest opinion, we have some on one side of the fence that knock anyone who breeds and the other side where most think they are doing good and are blinkered to any problems they may be causing. I bought Kiana from what I can honestly believe 100% to be a reputable breeder, I did my research, I met the breeder, I met the four dogs she owns, (mother, auntie, elder brother and grandmother of Kiana). I checked up on the sire and made a judgement call. Now because the breeder is relatively new some breeders will frown upon that, although she shows her dogs and is starting to achieve some good results. I would happily take on a welfare dog, after all that was what I intended to do in the first place, but got point blank refused because the dog in question showed all the normal traits of a typical Husky. Even though I had 19 years experience of owning Huskies I was told no. Funny though she really took to us on our visits and just showed 'normal' Husky behaviour, cheeky and mischevious. I just hope she is now rehomed and happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberianandy Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I would happily take on a welfare dog, after all that was what I intended to do in the first place, but got point blank refused because the dog in question showed all the normal traits of a typical Husky. Even though I had 19 years experience of owning Huskies I was told no. Funny though she really took to us on our visits and just showed 'normal' Husky behaviour, cheeky and mischevious. I just hope she is now rehomed and happy. same here steve and like you have been there although not with a sibe it was a lab we was after and the reason they gave and most shelters seem to have the same view. is that they won't rehome large dogs with small children even if the dog has never been round children and could be really gentle with them.my kids have beeen brought up round large dogs and are used to there size and boistrousness. we even said to one shelter "has the dog ever been round young children" the say "well no" so we say"well how do you know they don't get on with small children" enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just to clear things up, I am not saying I will breed from Kiana, but merely stating that if all the boxes are ticked is it responsible for someone to start breeding Huskies as a new breeder or will that be frowned upon by the so called 'responsible' breeders who look down their noses at pretty much everyone else but themselves anyway? There are some narky people in the dog world (in all breeds) but in my experience they've been in the minority. Good breeders will be happy to assist and mentor people who want to look into breeding themselves, as long as they are receptive to receiving advice and are ticking all the right boxes. That's just my experience from going to breed club events, being involved in dog sports, having friends who are breeders/showies, going to shows etc. We all started some where and that includes the great breeders who have been breeding for 20, 30 or more years. We have an organisation here called the Master Dog Breeders and Associates which was founded by registered breeders, they offer courses for people who are interested in breeding in genetics, canine health and nutrition, breeding etc. There is definitely support there for those who want it! There is a lot of snobbery in dog breeding anyway, not just in Huskies but all breeds, I am 100% behind breed improvement but you can't penalise people for thinking that they can add something to the breed or shall we just not breed further generations anyway, because at the end of the day who is really right and who is really wrong? There is a huge gap between puppy farmers and the odd 'back yard breeder' that thought they were doing good for the breed. Maybe some BYBers think they are doing the breed a favour but that doesn't mean they are contributing anything positive to the breed. We won't have our breed in several generations if we don't support the breeders who are doing the right thing, health testing, working and showing their dogs and competing in other dog sports, breeding from dogs who are a great example of the breed, breeding dogs with great pedigrees so that we can continue to breed from the same lines in many years to come. Imagine what our breed would look like today if no one took any care when breeding their dogs, didn't care about health testing or forming and breeding to a breed standard, carefully recording pedigrees and developing the breed to what it is today? No one is saying we should be breeding less, we are saying we need more breeders doing the right thing and less breeders doing the breed a disservice by breeding whatever they feel like putting together and hoping for the best. Sorry I'm waffling, but the whole issue of people being labelled back yard breeders is far too big to get a true and honest opinion, we have some on one side of the fence that knock anyone who breeds and the other side where most think they are doing good and are blinkered to any problems they may be causing. By definition a backyard breeder is an unregistered breeder - i.e. one who does not breed under any prefix/kennel name and is not registered with the appropriate governing body (i.e. the AKC, ANKC, UKC etc). They don't health test their dogs, they aren't registered so can't supply a pedigree, sometimes they breed purebreds and sometimes they breed crossbreeds. They are not breeding for the benefit of the breed but to supply the pet market - because they aren't breeding registered dogs they aren't contributing anything to the breed and they certainly aren't improving it. There are dodgy registered breeders out there too and I'm not quite sure what the situation is like in the UK, but here in Australia the majority of registered breeders do the right thing ETA: Being registered alone will not mean someone is automatically reputable, but there is no such thing as a reputable unregistered breeder (IMO) - it's essentially a default that a reputable breeder will be registered with their governing body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Why show the good side? Because there is a lot of benefit to showing your dogs, not just to get feedback on the type of dog you are breeding, but because it's a fun dog sport that many people enjoy. I know people who show who may never breed their dogs, it's just like any other dog sport that people enjoy participating in. I am also a firm believer that we should encourage those who are doing the right thing and not slamming them by lumping them in the same category as the minority of people who do the wrong thing. I guess you could also ask the question why talk about the good in purebred dogs overall, why not just focus entirely on the bad? If we're not careful we aren't going to have any purebred dogs in the future. I for one want to see my breed still around and going strong in 20, 50, 100 years. Just look at the countries who are wanting to and are actually banning certain breeds of dog! The BBC documentary has not done the purebred world any favours - come on, comparing purebred dog breeders to Hitler? How disgusting and insulting to the majority of purebred breeders who pour their hearts and souls into their dogs. Sadly people, like yourself, are watching the documentary and getting on the bandwagon of those who are telling us our dogs are crap, unhealthy, we are trying to breed an Aryian race etc. I certainly don't think all breeds are riddled with health problems. I actually think Siberians are one of the healthiest breeds out there. We have GREAT dogs. There are some breeds that I think need an overhaul like German Shepherds but the ball was rolling for a change in the breed before the BBC documentary was made. I think a lot of people who watched that documentary have no idea about the positive action that is already being taken by those involved in the purebred dog world. I'm talking about breed clubs that are funding research into diseases known in the breed, bringing down stricter breeding guidelines to their members, organisations like the MDBA that are working to promote responsible and ethical breeders and much much more. I know it must be hard to look at it from your perspective and see the merit in showing when the only exposure to the show world you've had is a BBC documentary. I just don't think the answer is to slam the pedigree dog world, I think we should be promoting the tonne of good that there is in it and highlighting the breeders who ARE doing the right thing. Surely you must be able to grasp the concept of a comparision >> i was making the comparison to help depict it >>> In society it's better to show the truth, in all situations, so yes i used Hitler? The BBC has shown the bad side and 'we love our dogs' have shown theirs >>> seems fair to me. I dont completly disagree with showing i just dont think it's the be all and end all for breeding dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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