What is the Zero Bloodline?

[Paulusworm]

so what cant he do ?

Drive a car or vote in a general election

[jules dief taz tor]

lol i ment race wise , is it just bshra that have a problem with the lines ?

[Sid_Wolf]

Not sure Julie. BUT... if you wanted to run him, then all you do is say he's unreg'd and get them to go over him

He will be nurotic with a pedigree full of Zeros n Forstals Im going to Forstals for my next pup

[jules dief taz tor]

neurotic , taz , lmfao , yep thats him , always wondered if it was just me , or if taz truely was off his head , now we know , what do you know about forstals doggies , are they mad too ?

[Sarah]

I think you can run in SHCGB races? not 100% though but rings a bell

[Cathy]

I had never heard of this, and the thread got me curious. It must've been controversial, because in searching, I've run into a lot of dead links where info has been pulled.

[Lyn]

As the owner of zero and part-Zero derived dogs, the history part is right. They can run with ANY race organisation and both breed clubs in the UK EXCEPT BSHRA. They are recognised as pure siberians in the UK and the secretary of the Kennel Clubs signature appears on their KC papers to verify this. You'll have to go off and find out for yourselves why that is ironic

It is an old line and the actual Zero affix is generally found no more recently than third generation back now. That said, the actual Zero bloodline does still exist in it's pure form (under different UK affixes).... We own three 100% Zeros, two three-quarter bred and three half-bred Zeros.

[Paulusworm]

They can run with ANY race organisation and both breed clubs in the UK EXCEPT BSHRA. They are recognised as pure siberians in the UK and the secretary of the Kennel Clubs signature appears on their KC papers to verify this. You'll have to go off and find out for yourselves why that is ironic

Would I be thinking along the right lines if I was thinking that only one person is involved?

*** Mods: Please feel free to remove/reword this post if I'm getting into dangerous territory. I've tried to be vague but have not long been awake, lol ***

[Sid_Wolf]

neurotic , taz , lmfao , yep thats him , always wondered if it was just me , or if taz truely was off his head , now we know , what do you know about forstals doggies , are they mad too ?

Most dogs born from a long line of working dogs are a bit mental lol, at least more so than show or pet bred ones. Because dogs with the best drive and want to run are bred from, rather than the calm lazy ones so those traits are past down

[raindog]

My take on the whole Zero thing is that it was about egos, not pedigrees. A guy way up in the north of Scotland (Steve Radburn) imported Siberian Huskies from Harris Dunlap's "Zero" kennel in the US. Amongst these were some of the dogs still seen several generations back in many pedigrees - Zero's Brew, Zero's Flutter etc. Steve Radburn bred these dogs and produced his own "Tupilak" line of Zero bred dogs.

Eventually, he decided to get out of the breed and sold most of his best racing dogs to a guy living on the south coast of England - Neil Marshall. Neil was a rough 'n' ready bloke and an obsessive racer and lived to train and race his dogs. He soon began to wipe the floor with every other team out there. Most organisations just accepted that he had the fastest dogs and were happy to let him compete. One organisation - BSDRA (British Sled Dog Racing Association) , however, was less happy. The leading lights of BSDRA had been used to being big fish in a small pond for so long, that they couldn't cope with the idea of a working class upstart like Neil, coming along and beating them all. Hence, the change of the organisation to BSHRA (British Siberian Husky Racing Association) and the Zero ban. At the time, many Zero supporters wore T-Shirts with the slogan, "If you can't beat 'em - Ban 'em!"

There are, and always have been, rumours about Dunlap and Radburn adding Alaskans or even Greyhounds into the mix, but my own view is that this was unproved, unprovable and unnecessary. If you don't care about what your dogs look like, but are only concerned with pure speed, and you breed only fastest to fastest, eventually you will end up with incredibly fast dogs which don't necessarily look anything like the breed standard. This doesn't have to be the case though and I recall that Neil's ex-girlfriend Tanya had a beautiful pure Zero - "Storm" who would have won in any showring anywhere.

They are recognised as pure siberians in the UK and the secretary of the Kennel Clubs signature appears on their KC papers to verify this. You'll have to go off and find out for yourselves why that is ironic

For those who don't like puzzles - the KC secretary is a leading light in BSHRA.

Mick

[jules dief taz tor]

0oh flipping eck , didnt know zeros went on to tupilaks , tazs pedigree has the following on

5th generation

zeros milky way ii

zeros gloss over

zeros jolt

zeros glider at tupilak (imp)

zeros sugar

zeros brew at tupilak of altbaugh(imp)

zeros flutter at tupilak (imp)

rookies woody at tupilak (imp)

chiawatis emy at tupilak (imp)

4th generation

zeros brew at tupilak of altbaugh (imp)

tupilaks sable of altbaugh

zeros brew at tupilak of altbaugh (imp)

zeros flutter of tupilak (imp)

tupilaks salty

tupilaks bonnie

3rd generation

tupilaks china

tupilaks nugget

tupilaks salty

and the top half of the papers contain both forstals and rajarani lines

its official taz is bonkers lmao

[rose]

neurotic , taz , lmfao , yep thats him , always wondered if it was just me , or if taz truely was off his head , now we know , what do you know about forstals doggies , are they mad too ?

forstal dogs are great dogs with a good attitude to working , great temperaments . They have been breeding / racing sibes for along time in the uk.They do well in shows too. we have known them for about 20 years .They don't breed very often .

[jules dief taz tor]

dont get me wrong taz is a lovley dog , great temperament and he will run forever , its just hes a bit bonkers, he runs laps of the garden at breakneck speed , t bones dief out of the way , its like hes on speed, permanatly. and he has this weird way of greeting new dogies , think screach out of police academy and you have taz maybe we need to start running him more and see what he can really do, we did start running him on the bike but he was mental, he lept off a trail that had quite a drop , scared me witt less

.

[parksy]

My take on the whole Zero thing is that it was about egos, not pedigrees. A guy way up in the north of Scotland (Steve Radburn) imported Siberian Huskies from Harris Dunlap's "Zero" kennel in the US. Amongst these were some of the dogs still seen several generations back in many pedigrees - Zero's Brew, Zero's Flutter etc. Steve Radburn bred these dogs and produced his own "Tupilak" line of Zero bred dogs.

Eventually, he decided to get out of the breed and sold most of his best racing dogs to a guy living on the south coast of England - Neil Marshall. Neil was a rough 'n' ready bloke and an obsessive racer and lived to train and race his dogs. He soon began to wipe the floor with every other team out there. Most organisations just accepted that he had the fastest dogs and were happy to let him compete. One organisation - BSDRA (British Sled Dog Racing Association) , however, was less happy. The leading lights of BSDRA had been used to being big fish in a small pond for so long, that they couldn't cope with the idea of a working class upstart like Neil, coming along and beating them all. Hence, the change of the organisation to BSHRA (British Siberian Husky Racing Association) and the Zero ban. At the time, many Zero supporters wore T-Shirts with the slogan, "If you can't beat 'em - Ban 'em!"

There are, and always have been, rumours about Dunlap and Radburn adding Alaskans or even Greyhounds into the mix, but my own view is that this was unproved, unprovable and unnecessary. If you don't care about what your dogs look like, but are only concerned with pure speed, and you breed only fastest to fastest, eventually you will end up with incredibly fast dogs which don't necessarily look anything like the breed standard. This doesn't have to be the case though and I recall that Neil's ex-girlfriend Tanya had a beautiful pure Zero - "Storm" who would have won in any showring anywhere.

For those who don't like puzzles - the KC secretary is a leading light in BSHRA.

Mick

Excellent post Mick,well written, and the most accurate posting regarding the history. As an owner of 2 three quarter zeros it does not affect us (not running with BSHRA) we just choose elsewhere!

As for the K.C. and the secretary,:frustrating: :g_wink: maybe a feature should be asked by 'your dog' as to why this line is banned but signed off as sibes.

Quite ironic.

[nush]

My take on the whole Zero thing is that it was about egos, not pedigrees. A guy way up in the north of Scotland (Steve Radburn) imported Siberian Huskies from Harris Dunlap's "Zero" kennel in the US. Amongst these were some of the dogs still seen several generations back in many pedigrees - Zero's Brew, Zero's Flutter etc. Steve Radburn bred these dogs and produced his own "Tupilak" line of Zero bred dogs.

Eventually, he decided to get out of the breed and sold most of his best racing dogs to a guy living on the south coast of England - Neil Marshall. Neil was a rough 'n' ready bloke and an obsessive racer and lived to train and race his dogs. He soon began to wipe the floor with every other team out there. Most organisations just accepted that he had the fastest dogs and were happy to let him compete. One organisation - BSDRA (British Sled Dog Racing Association) , however, was less happy. The leading lights of BSDRA had been used to being big fish in a small pond for so long, that they couldn't cope with the idea of a working class upstart like Neil, coming along and beating them all. Hence, the change of the organisation to BSHRA (British Siberian Husky Racing Association) and the Zero ban. At the time, many Zero supporters wore T-Shirts with the slogan, "If you can't beat 'em - Ban 'em!"

There are, and always have been, rumours about Dunlap and Radburn adding Alaskans or even Greyhounds into the mix, but my own view is that this was unproved, unprovable and unnecessary. If you don't care about what your dogs look like, but are only concerned with pure speed, and you breed only fastest to fastest, eventually you will end up with incredibly fast dogs which don't necessarily look anything like the breed standard. This doesn't have to be the case though and I recall that Neil's ex-girlfriend Tanya had a beautiful pure Zero - "Storm" who would have won in any showring anywhere.

For those who don't like puzzles - the KC secretary is a leading light in BSHRA.

Mick

Excellent post Mick,well written, and the most accurate posting regarding the history. As an owner of 2 three quarter zeros it does not affect us (not running with BSHRA) we just choose elsewhere!

As for the K.C. and the secretary,:frustrating: :g_wink: maybe a feature should be asked by 'your dog' as to why this line is banned but signed off as sibes.

Quite ironic.

just thought i would correct this post by raindog, sorry mick but neil marshal never ever ever ever ran with BSDRA, i dont think he even got his zero's until BSDRA had ceased to exist. as for the leading lights of BSHRA not wanting him at their events those that you mention have never even met him.

i dont want to resurrect this thread but history should not be perverted in this way.

reece

[snowpups]

Wow this is really interested maybe that is what jasper has in him that would be interesting to find out he is really fast when he goes but he doesn't have papers so will never know ice has both forstals and rajarani lines in his bloodline

[Qonos]

There really isn't any pure Zero bloodline left in the UK, many kennels have dogs with Zero within their pedigrees. There are many different reasons as to why BSHRA don't allow dogs with Zero in their five generation pedigree bandied about, the only people who know the true reason are the ones who banned them in the first place, the rest is speculation.

There are plenty of non zero based teams out there that are more than capable of beating teams with zero in their pedigrees!

[Qonos]

Christ I didn't realise you had to be posh to race at BSHRA, no one told us in the last 14 years;)

[nush]

Christ I didn't realise you had to be posh to race at BSHRA, no one told us in the last 14 years;)

that because you have to be posh and no one talks to you. lol

same here really

reece

[Qonos]

What the KC secretary chooses to do in her spare time is her business not any one elses. I also expect she is allowed her own opinion, unfortunately most of us have to work to make a living, that doesn't mean we agree with every aspect of it. I work in a pub and don't particularly like drunks, but it earns a crust.

I may be wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me, but I thought to race an unregistered dog with BSHRA it had to come through some sort of welfare.

The coat is fairly irrelevant some of my dogs have very short plush coats, that are still very dense and will keep the dog warm in very low temperatures, and I can say hand on heart there is not a drop of Zero in any of them;)

[Removed #5]

Great post Dave

The reason that the BSHRA will disqualify dogs from this line, is because they believe a dog within a certain number of generations will be genetically predisposed to be better at speed running than a dog that does not have the Zero Bloodline in its pedigree.

Found this passage strange though - I would have thought that their speed would be a benefit?

It does sound kind of contradictory ... if you're engaged in racing, wouldn't speed be one of the things you're looking for?

[raindog]

just thought i would correct this post by raindog, sorry mick but neil marshal never ever ever ever ran with BSDRA, i dont think he even got his zero's until BSDRA had ceased to exist. as for the leading lights of BSHRA not wanting him at their events those that you mention have never even met him.

reece

I don't mind being corrected Reece - it was a long time ago now and I am sure you are right. I never raced with BSDRA myself, so I was just going on what others had said. Apologies for repeating an apocryphal story!

It does however make it even more strange that BSHRA vetoed Zeros in that case.

[Mistyrayn]

I may be wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me, but I thought to race an unregistered dog with BSHRA it had to come through some sort of welfare.

that is not the case my Tikaani is unregistered and not from any welfare organisation.. actually i have just had her accepted as pure husky to run on this seasons BSHRA races..

all thats needed is some info and 3 Championship Judges to asess the dog and agree its a purebred Siberian Husky.

[nush]

hi mick

i know you dont mind, we have had the same discussion somewhere else in the distant past, my aim was just to put the record strait, i found this thread by accident as i was searching on google for something totally unrelated to this, but thought it interesting that it hadnt been corrected.

as for the zero ban, the stated aim was to stop one line (a very fast line) of siberian huskies from dominating the breeding programs of kennels in the uk as had already happened in europe.

qonos--- i agree, uk kennels without zero were competing successfully back then as they do now.

[nush]

that is not the case my Tikaani is unregistered and not from any welfare organisation.. actually i have just had her accepted as pure husky to run on this seasons BSHRA races..

all thats needed is some info and 3 Championship Judges to asess the dog and agree its a purebred Siberian Husky.

this is a quote from BSHRA rule book

Only dogs which are one of the purebred sled dog breeds and are registered with

the Kennel Club are eligible for entry (including welfare dogs at the discretion of

the Race Organiser but excluding those known to be of Zero bloodlines – see

note under Classification).

i would guess that if you have been given permission to run then the info you have provided is proof that no zero exists in the pedigree, i would also guess that you are not eligible for championship points.

reece