siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I am currently sat here with Gizmo on the sofa having a cuddle, a little confused ! Im sure you all know (especially those that have been at the 1st meet up and at the camping trip) that Marley is dominant aggressive with other male dogs but know Im worried that his aggression has now passed to aggression in the pack :eek:! The other night Marley and Gizmo both got into a bad scrap whilst I was outside with Bandit and it was only Daniel in the house with them and Daniel didnt know what to do, which I understand as he hasnt seen something like that before! I went running in to separate them by which time they had separated and both gone their own way. As they had already stopped I was unable to correct them in any way but I checked them both over for cuts, ect and noticed Marley had caught Gizmo's ear :eek: I cleaned it as best as I could and it has scabbed over now and seems to be healing well, it was only a tiny cut. Last night, just as I was thinking of coming onto here, I was about to take them out for a wee before they started to settle for bed and Marley kept staring Gizmo out and Gizmo was cowered in the corner. I put Gizmo's lead and collar on to try and get him out of the corner and Marley just flew at Gizmo again and they got into a scrap again! I was on my own so it wasnt easy but I tried to separate them and it was just mission impossible, I couldn't get in between them Marley didnt have a collar on so I couldnt grap his collar and pull him off Gizmo, who is pinned, and everytime I tried to pull Gizmo away Marley kept going and going! Eventually Marley stopped attacking and went back to staring Gizmo out so I managed to get Marley by the scruff and get him away from Gizmo. Poor Gizmo was terrified and didnt want to move from the corner, so I put Marley into his crate so Gizmo couldnt see him and tried to get Gizmo out of the corner so I could take him out for a wee. Marley's crate is by the door so I left Marley in there so I could get Gizmo to see him without getting attacked, or that was my plan anyway, and Gizmo saw him and refused to walk any further! In the end I had to get Gizmo next to me and hold him on one side of me and have Marley in the crate on the other side of me, Gizmo was still struggling to go past, Marley just eyeballed him as he went past until he was about to go out the door when Marley decided to try and go at Gizmo through the cage (I was still inbetween them). I got out and took Gizmo out for a wee and then tried to get him back in and then he didnt want to go back in so I did the same as I did to get him out and again we got so far past and Marley went again! Gizmo went back into the kitchen and cowered into the corner again and there he stayed! I then did the rest of my usual night time routine and they all got a beef bone each as they have been ill with the runs for past few days and the beef bones are helping to solidify them up again. I checked both Marley and Gizmo over again and couldnt see any cuts until I got up thismorning and found that Marley had got Gizmo on his other ear! All day, today, Gizmo hasnt wanted to go anywhere near Marley and hasnt really moved from where he is now! Everytime he does move Marley will stare him out! I was hoping that by taking him to our camp trips and meet ups where there was alot of other dogs that it would help socialise Marley and his aggression would settle and on the camping trip he did start to settle down towards the end but now I feel like it has got worse! Each time Marley has got into a scrap with Gizmo there hasn't been any 'resources' for them to scrap over apart from personal space! Out of the 3 of them, not including humans, Marley is top followed by Gizmo and Bandit so as Marley is already in charge of Gizmo and starting the scraps I can't see it being Marley trying to gain places further up the pack order as that would mean he would have to challenge Jamie's parents, Jamie and Me. Im not feeling so good today as I feel like Ive failed to guide Marely correctly to help him overcome his aggression :ran_frown: I know having 3 un-neautured males that scraps are going to happen but the fact that Marley started with it just being other males that wasnt not from his pack that he would become aggressive with and now it seems to have gone to him attacking his pack members Im worried that I have mis-guided him somewhere and his aggression has excelerated! Marley has been there on occasions when Bandit has been attacked by other dogs, which as it happens tends to be other males, and Im thinking thats where his aggression started and I havent taken the right steps to show Marley that aggressive behaviour is not allowed and now Marley thinks thats how he should behave. Anyone got any tips on how I can get my teddy bear back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Amy - I really think this is a situation where you need an experienced and reputable trainer/behaviourist to come in and assess your pack. I and other posters here can guess at what the underlying problem is but without seeing the dogs and having a solid understanding of how your pack is working it can only ever be a guess. Marley sounds like he has decided he is going to take charge, when it is not his place place to do so. Forget socialising him with other dogs - he's an adult dog so he's past the point where socialisation alone is going to teach him how to behave appropriately. My guess is that he's a dominant dog that has no respect for you or his place in the pack, he is taking charge and stepping up and doing as he pleases. He doesn't need to challenge you directly to demonstrate he considers himself at the top of the pack, it sounds like he is taking charge just through his interaction with the other dogs. However that is just a guess - I could be completely wrong and the behaviour could be stemming from something else. I really feel for you as this is an awful situation to be in and I know how stressful it can be owning an aggressive dog. I know it can be hard to find a reputable trainer and that it can be expensive, but I really think it's beyond any help that we can give you over the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Oh Amy!!!!! ***** HUGS****** First off - you've done everything you can with your boys, you're a great mum and never think anything different or put yourself down babes xxxxxxxxxxxxxx I would seriously look into getting them all neutered, Marley first - it's not cheap but could you speak with your vet and ask if you brought Marley in first and paid for his op over a month say, and then bring Bandit / Gizmo in next and do the same again?? I know not many people agree with this method, but have you tried pinning him like how Ceasar does? Pinning them doesn't physically hurt them but shows them that you are in charge and will not tollerate what they are doing. I don't know what to suggest at the moment other than an experienced dog trainer / handler but I know how expensive they are I will have a look on the net and see what I can find for you, we're all here for you hun, don't despair xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 thanks bec, its very hard to find a decent behaviourist in my local area and definately expensive but like you say it may be the only route we have as the other route I definately dont want to go down otherwise I would never live myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Oh Amy!!!!! ***** HUGS****** First off - you've done everything you can with your boys, you're a great mum and never think anything different or put yourself down babes xxxxxxxxxxxxxx I would seriously look into getting them all neutered, Marley first - it's not cheap but could you speak with your vet and ask if you brought Marley in first and paid for his op over a month say, and then bring Bandit / Gizmo in next and do the same again?? I know not many people agree with this method, but have you tried pinning him like how Ceasar does? Pinning them doesn't physically hurt them but shows them that you are in charge and will not tollerate what they are doing. I don't know what to suggest at the moment other than an experienced dog trainer / handler but I know how expensive they are I will have a look on the net and see what I can find for you, we're all here for you hun, don't despair xxxxxxxxxxxxxx thanks saz, Im having one of them days today (emotions flying everywhere!) Ive tried pinning him down until he calms which used to work but now it only seems to make him worse. I can't be having with any of my boys beong scared of one another. In a way Im glad its not Bandit as he gets it enough on walks. I hope they start to get along again soon, poor Gizmo is terrified! Im going to ask Jamie if he would come out for a walk tonight when he finishes at work so we can take just Marley and Gizmo out and try and get them at least walking together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 hugs amy not rly sure what 2 suggest maybe gettin him fixed would help? sorry i cnt help hugs 2 u and gizmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 thanks saz, Im having one of them days today (emotions flying everywhere!) Ive tried pinning him down until he calms which used to work but now it only seems to make him worse. Physically overpowering him can make him worse if he already sees himself as higher in the pack and decides to take you up on the challenge. You can't force them to respect you, if he does indeed see himself as higher in the pack then that's got everything to do with how you interact with him every day and that's not something pinning him down will change. I wish I could do more for you, Amy, or at the very least knew a trainer that I could recommend you to contact. I'd hate for you to see someone who doesn't have a clue and waste the money it costs to have a one on one consult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade hill Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 aww...hugs to poor gizmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Physically overpowering him can make him worse if he already sees himself as higher in the pack and decides to take you up on the challenge. You can't force them to respect you, if he does indeed see himself as higher in the pack then that's got everything to do with how you interact with him every day and that's not something pinning him down will change. I wish I could do more for you, Amy, or at the very least knew a trainer that I could recommend you to contact. I'd hate for you to see someone who doesn't have a clue and waste the money it costs to have a one on one consult Im going to have look on net for some tips on finding a good behaviourist, will pop this in another thread. I don't think Marley is seeing himself highest in the pack, yet, as he will still back down to me, jamie and his parents until he goes into his aggression mode. I don't want to loose this 'battle' with Marley and want do whatever it takes to help him overcome this. I miss the old Marely who would just play with everyone and every dog he met Like I said Im very sure I know where I went wrong but its getting over it thats the problem and correcting it for his and the packs own good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Im going to have look on net for some tips on finding a good behaviourist, will pop this in another thread. I'm sure we can give you some tips but the best way to find a reputable trainer is through word of mouth. For example - my trainer doesn't advertise. He has a pretty crappy, out of date website. However, he's booked out for consults 2-3 months in advance and it's all from word of mouth. I don't think Marley is seeing himself highest in the pack, yet, as he will still back down to me, jamie and his parents until he goes into his aggression mode. Which, to me, sounds like he takes charge at those times. My dogs rarely get into scuffles, in fact I don't think they've ever had a fight, but if there is a bit of noise between any one of them they stop when I tell them to stop. He's picking on a weaker pack member - as the alpha he should listen to you when you say stop, instead he's taking charge and when he decides he wants to do something you lose control of him. This is all hypothetical of course as I can't see him to say for sure (and I'm not experienced enough to make a proper assessment myself). I don't want to loose this 'battle' with Marley and want do whatever it takes to help him overcome this. I miss the old Marely who would just play with everyone and every dog he met Like I said Im very sure I know where I went wrong but its getting over it thats the problem and correcting it for his and the packs own good. It's definitely tough But sadly it's not an uncommon problem, hopefully you will be able to find someone who will set you on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val (Zebedee) Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Aw, Amy - poor you. I can't add anything else to what has been posted, I'm afraid, I think if Marley was "snipped" it 'should' calm him, take the aggression away, but other than find a good, reputable, local behaviourist, I'm not sure what else to suggest, hun. I also hope for all your sakes this doesn't have a long term effect on Gizmo, he's such a love! I really hope you get a solution quickly to bring the harmony back to your pack, hugs from the humans to you & from Myshka to Gizmo & Marley (not forgetting Bandit, of course!) xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidjk Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I know not many people agree with this method, but have you tried pinning him like how Ceasar does? Pinning them doesn't physically hurt them but shows them that you are in charge and will not tollerate what they are doing. we tried everything with micha, and nothing worked, then we tried mr millans method, and it worked. so i support this method. its all about confidence when it comes to dogs, there is a lady down the park near us who hates dogs, and goes into screaming hysterics whenever a dog comes within 30 feet of her, no points for guessing how the dogs react to this. what ever you do, dont feel like a failure, if your un sure of yourself, the dogs sense it as weakness and will run rough shod over you. imagine youself in a peacfull place, then go deal with it best of luck, and make sure you get someone who is used to huskies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 we tried everything with micha, and nothing worked, then we tried mr millans method, and it worked. so i support this method. its all about confidence when it comes to dogs, there is a lady down the park near us who hates dogs, and goes into screaming hysterics whenever a dog comes within 30 feet of her, no points for guessing how the dogs react to this. what ever you do, dont feel like a failure, if your un sure of yourself, the dogs sense it as weakness and will run rough shod over you. imagine youself in a peacfull place, then go deal with it best of luck, and make sure you get someone who is used to huskies Thanks David I will be honest, with all thats been goin on lately, my confidence is lack a fair bit! Going to see if I can get Jamie to come with me and take Gizmo and Marley out together for a short walk and see if this helps them at all. Gonna have chat with Jamie tonight also about getting Marley neutured sooner rather than later and if that doesnt work/help then we will be going to a behaviourist if we can find a reputable one around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Dawson Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi Hi there, i did send this as a message to Amy but i was thinking that if anyone had a problem who lived in the Bournemouth, Christchurch, Poole, Westbourne, Branksome, Parkstone, Talbot Village, Wallisdown, Moordown, Winton, Boscombe, Southbourne, Wick, Iford, Mudeford, Purewell, Burton, New Forest, New Milton, Ringwood, Fordingbridge, Dorchester, Weymouth, Swanage, Corfe, Hampshire, Wiltshire and surrounding areas would benefit from this, i didn't know if i could post this so i'm gonna go out on a limb. This lady is a Dog Listener, she is fully trained, she owns Siberian Huskies and fosters other rescue dogs from time to time, her name is Natalie Finch and her web address is www.purechaos2calm.com she is very good at was she does. I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi there, i did send this as a message to Amy but i was thinking that if anyone had a problem who lived in the Bournemouth, Christchurch, Poole, Westbourne, Branksome, Parkstone, Talbot Village, Wallisdown, Moordown, Winton, Boscombe, Southbourne, Wick, Iford, Mudeford, Purewell, Burton, New Forest, New Milton, Ringwood, Fordingbridge, Dorchester, Weymouth, Swanage, Corfe, Hampshire, Wiltshire and surrounding areas would benefit from this, i didn't know if i could post this so i'm gonna go out on a limb. This lady is a Dog Listener, she is fully trained, she owns Siberian Huskies and fosters other rescue dogs from time to time, her name is Natalie Finch and her web address is www.purechaos2calm.com she is very good at was she does. I hope this helps. Thank you so much! It is very much appreciated. Just going to send her an email (Im still crying too much to speak!) and see what comeback I get Sorry I cant add to your rep yet as Ove given too much out in last 24 hours will come back later and do so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 aggression Hello bro, sorry you re having trouble with the pack but unless you are the dog whisperer you are going to find having 3 un-neuted males unmanageable. I have never been one for having balls removed but my current husky now at the age of 2 years has decided he wants to be aggressive to certain dogs, after being a happy go lucky dog for the last couple of years. At which point you have to accept there relationship with there testicles may not be as deep as ours and thier standard of living and well being is more important than being able to lick their own balls. Its a bitter pill to swallow but may help your situation. Don t forget that you are the pack leader and above all advice look at the dogs and follow your instinct over and above text and r4esearch. Hope things improve, will touch base in a few weeks to see how things are going. good luck mate Gareth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 PS: the fact you are sharing your problem and seeking advice from other experiencent owners is a clear indication that you have not and will not fail your dogs. So chin up and address the problem cos you will prevail if you stay focussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Dawson Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Thank you so much! It is very much appreciated. Just going to send her an email (Im still crying too much to speak!) and see what comeback I get Sorry I cant add to your rep yet as Ove given too much out in last 24 hours will come back later and do so Yu are most welcome, like has already been said, the fact that you are looking for help with the situation means that you have never and will never fail your dogs, please dont ever feel that way, the only peoplewho fal their dogs are the ones who dont give a monkeys about them,i have only been on this forum for a couple of days and i can see that all the people that i have spoken to and all the threads that i have read not one person on here would EVER do wrong by their dogs. Please dont beat yourself up, look at it as a learning curve that you and your dogs get to experience together. Loads of hugs, Jo.Xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I have just sent an email to Natalie (runs - http://www.purechaos2calm.com/index.html) about the current situation as best as I could and hopefully I will get a comeback. Will keep you all updated on how things go. Thanks again Jo getting that link was excellant and hopefully I can start giving Marley the guidence he needs at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Amy im so sorry your going through this i hope this woman can help and you get him sorted out. hugs xxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 awww im sorry Amz, now i know what you mean. I know its not Marleys fault, he clearly see's other males as a threat 'cos of other cretinus owners, but i cant help but feel sorry for Gizmo. I would say Alaska is better than Marley in the house >> in the sense she is fine with Balto but she sounds worse out and about. Im sorry but i cant offer any advise, let me know how it goes, if i find out anything or any good trainer i will let you know too. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 fantastic link Jo, added to rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 quick update, I recieved an email back from Natalie, was a fast reply as recieved it back a few moments after I had sent my email, saying she can help me and my boys but wanted to speak with me first. I have given her my number and she is going to call me sometime tomorrow Will let you know what she says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 thats great news Amy good luck and please keep us updated xxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val (Zebedee) Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Aw, Amy, that's great news! Fingers crossed for your conversation tomorrow & a start on helping Marley, xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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