How Do I Change the Pack Order In My House???

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

Ok so it seems the pack order in my house goes.... Me, Hubby, Storm, And then the kids. If either of the kids is ever near him when I am feeding him or he is eating then he goes for them. The hubby and I both started when he was young taking his food away so thats ok but we never even thought of the kids having to do it too. We tried to get the 9 year old to do it this morning but hubby wasn't holding him properly and he bit my son, only tiny scratch but still not acceptible.

What can I do guys? Has anyone with Huskies and Kids had the same problem? What did you to to solve it??

HELP PLEASE COZ I DON'T WANT TO PUT MY KIDS IN DANGER BUT DON'T WANT TO GET RID OF MY PUP EITHER!

[SarahNukka&Shadow]

Dont have the kids take the food away that will make him see them as rivals for the food have them be the ones to give it too him.. have him sit and wait nicely and wait while your kids put the bowl down and then wait till they say OK to eat the food.. this shows him they are not rivals but sources of food. Also have them do other simple training with him with you supervising.. sits and downs and then stays and waits etc.

[KSNS]

H needs to realise his place you are correct what you need to do is let the kids feed him, let him realise that his food also comes from them don't know how old the kids are but have them put his food down under you're supervision and do not let him have his food untill the kids say so be firm and comandig he will get pushy it's the husky way but by kids feeding him he will realise that to get what he wants he has to do what the kids say as and if he doesn't he wont get what he wants

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

he does .let them give him treats and even does training for them. Yesterday he had a go at my son just because he was too close to the food bin!!

[dygosamikita]

I would start by only having the kids feed Storm for now. Storm will start to see them as the ones who give the food. Maybe try having the kids hold his food bowl as they are giving it to him and make him eat out of the bowl with them still holding it. He is still young so it shouldn't be too hard to fix it.

You can also do all the other things regarding showing that the kids have a higher status than Storm. Like making sure the kids eat first, enter rooms first, have them do some training with him.

Hope these help give you some ideas on how to deal with it. Good luck getting it sorted out,.

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

he does .let them give him treats and even does training for them. Yesterday he had a go at my son just because he was too close to the food bin!!

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

like rachel says let them feed him from now on, make sure you are there to supervise tho, just so you can intervene if you need to, have them come on walks and let them hold the lead aswell if you can get them to do some training ect with them too

[magical Merlin]

Okay, I'm going to open with something I say time and time again but owners are still not understanding because they dont study or learn about dog behaviour/psychology.

DOGS ARE NOT TRYNG TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Dogs do not see people as dogs. They are not dominant towards humans. I know its a hard consept to get to grips with especially as we all (including me) were educated and brought up to believe that because some old fassion behaviourist tells us a dog sees humans as dogs we all believe them. Its not true. As long as you are not breeding, hunting, killing, eating and rearing pups with your dog and showing only dog behaviour, - greeting by sniffing mouths/bottoms/genitals, always walking on 4 feet, showing dog body language (impossible as we do not have the correct ear position/tails/hair) your dog does not see you as a dog. You are a human, you are a resource. A dog does not want to dominate you, it simply values you for what you are - the provider.

Now thats out the way,

At 4 months old I would say hes just trying his luck a bit. Dogs learn by knowing what they can and cant get away with. He knows that you and your husband always give him the food and always return the food. No issues.

He doesn't know that your children have any purpose. To him they just get in the way and the best way of getting them to go away is to growl or bite.

A dogs aggressive warning system is designed to warn you to go away. Growling, hair up, snarling is all a system they have developed to say back off im not happy with you in my presance....see these teeth, i can hurt you with them if i have to, see these ears, they can hear you, see my eyes they see you now go away. A bite is 99% of the time a last resort for a well rounded, well socilised dog. If a dog bites its because it feels it has no other option OR it has learnt that biting gets its desired result - you go away.

This is what I would do:

Make the children a valuble resource to the dog. So they feed the dog. They dont take food away but at the moment they provide the food. They put the food in the bowl, put the bowl on the floor and walk to a safe distance away from the dog while he eats.

Step two, the children control the dog - they practice commands such as sit, down, paw and always give the dog a reward for doing it.

step three the dog learns respect - New rules that are strict. No dogs on furnature, no dog starts play, only you start play. You are in control off all the resources (food, toys, walks etc) Dog gets no say in what he does, you and the children do. Now I know this sounds like the whole dominance thing and that is because the idea behind dominance is correct ie dog mannors, its just not the theory - dog wants to take over the world. So from now on the dog must have mannors in order to get anything he wants. This doesn't mean your asserting your dominance, it means you and the kids are setting basic rules for respect in your house.

I would remove anything that can cause issue in the house to start - so no bones/chews/toys if the dog has issues with the children around them.

I also think its important to point out that most dogs are protective of their food, especially if their owners have persisted in sticking their hands in it while they are trying to eat or have taken it away while they are trying to eat even if they give it back after. A dogs instinct to eat is in built, it needs to do it to survive so by fiddling about with food while the dog is trying to eat you are asking for troubble in the end. Food time is dog time.

Dont get me wrong you need to be able to take stuff off the dog, but why do you have to fiddle about with its food? What possible reason is there to be able to take its food bowl away while its eating? you have given the dog that food for it to eat, its not poison, the dog didn't steal it, you gave it to it to eat so leave the food alone while its eating. As long as you can take toys and stolen goods away there is no issue to mess about with food you have given the dog.

Anyway for now prevention is the best cure, dont try to make the kids take the dogs food away. Obviously you dont want the dog to be growly around the kids when he has food, which is why the children need to start putting the food in the bowl and giving it to the dog then walking away so he can eat. They also need to take part in all his training to ensure the dog learns that they are a valuable resource to him (like you are) and therefore he has nothing to worry about when they are near.

Just a side note - its very important to always monitor children with dogs so accidents don't happen - such as children falling on the dog or stealing something from the dog because things like that will cause issue with dogs and they will get fed up and warn children not to ocme near them.

It may sound silly but you haven't made the kids pretend to eat the dogs food before he does have you? sometimes this can cause lots of troubble, especially in old breeds like huskies

[husky princess]

in addition to the above ensure things such as you all walk out of the door first, have areas in the house which the dog isnt allowed and then all boundaries are followed through by all members of the family.

look out for early signs of guarding - being in the kitchen while you cook and pounce on anything dropped. dont allow him to have it (your in control of what he can/cannot have.

We now insist that storm lies quietly in his crate (door open) while we eat as before he would 'guard' us. he is no longer allowed in the kitchen while i cook...he is not allowed passed the kitchen/hall boundry and he knows this.

My rescue dog has food aggression (huge improvement on what he was like) and belive me its far easier to sort at 4mths rather than nearly 2yrs - when he's stronger & bigger teeth!

Good luck - i've been told the book 'how to speak dog' is excellent - £4.99 on amazon

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

Okay, I'm going to open with something I say time and time again but owners are still not understanding because they dont study or learn about dog behaviour/psychology.

DOGS ARE NOT TRYNG TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Dogs do not see people as dogs. They are not dominant towards humans. I know its a hard consept to get to grips with especially as we all (including me) were educated and brought up to believe that because some old fassion behaviourist tells us a dog sees humans as dogs we all believe them. Its not true. As long as you are not breeding, hunting, killing, eating and rearing pups with your dog and showing only dog behaviour, - greeting by sniffing mouths/bottoms/genitals, always walking on 4 feet, showing dog body language (impossible as we do not have the correct ear position/tails/hair) your dog does not see you as a dog. You are a human, you are a resource. A dog does not want to dominate you, it simply values you for what you are - the provider.

Now thats out the way,

At 4 months old I would say hes just trying his luck a bit. Dogs learn by knowing what they can and cant get away with. He knows that you and your husband always give him the food and always return the food. No issues.

He doesn't know that your children have any purpose. To him they just get in the way and the best way of getting them to go away is to growl or bite.

A dogs aggressive warning system is designed to warn you to go away. Growling, hair up, snarling is all a system they have developed to say back off im not happy with you in my presance....see these teeth, i can hurt you with them if i have to, see these ears, they can hear you, see my eyes they see you now go away. A bite is 99% of the time a last resort for a well rounded, well socilised dog. If a dog bites its because it feels it has no other option OR it has learnt that biting gets its desired result - you go away.

This is what I would do:

Make the children a valuble resource to the dog. So they feed the dog. They dont take food away but at the moment they provide the food. They put the food in the bowl, put the bowl on the floor and walk to a safe distance away from the dog while he eats.

Step two, the children control the dog - they practice commands such as sit, down, paw and always give the dog a reward for doing it.

step three the dog learns respect - New rules that are strict. No dogs on furnature, no dog starts play, only you start play. You are in control off all the resources (food, toys, walks etc) Dog gets no say in what he does, you and the children do. Now I know this sounds like the whole dominance thing and that is because the idea behind dominance is correct ie dog mannors, its just not the theory - dog wants to take over the world. So from now on the dog must have mannors in order to get anything he wants. This doesn't mean your asserting your dominance, it means you and the kids are setting basic rules for respect in your house.

I would remove anything that can cause issue in the house to start - so no bones/chews/toys if the dog has issues with the children around them.

I also think its important to point out that most dogs are protective of their food, especially if their owners have persisted in sticking their hands in it while they are trying to eat or have taken it away while they are trying to eat even if they give it back after. A dogs instinct to eat is in built, it needs to do it to survive so by fiddling about with food while the dog is trying to eat you are asking for troubble in the end. Food time is dog time.

Dont get me wrong you need to be able to take stuff off the dog, but why do you have to fiddle about with its food? What possible reason is there to be able to take its food bowl away while its eating? you have given the dog that food for it to eat, its not poison, the dog didn't steal it, you gave it to it to eat so leave the food alone while its eating. As long as you can take toys and stolen goods away there is no issue to mess about with food you have given the dog.

Anyway for now prevention is the best cure, dont try to make the kids take the dogs food away. Obviously you dont want the dog to be growly around the kids when he has food, which is why the children need to start putting the food in the bowl and giving it to the dog then walking away so he can eat. They also need to take part in all his training to ensure the dog learns that they are a valuable resource to him (like you are) and therefore he has nothing to worry about when they are near.

Just a side note - its very important to always monitor children with dogs so accidents don't happen - such as children falling on the dog or stealing something from the dog because things like that will cause issue with dogs and they will get fed up and warn children not to ocme near them.

It may sound silly but you haven't made the kids pretend to eat the dogs food before he does have you? sometimes this can cause lots of troubble, especially in old breeds like huskies

I realise you are trying to help but I feel your post is saying I'm a bit stupid when it comes to dogs.

1. I was told to take the food away occasionally by a animal behaviourist and veterinary nurse to show him who's boss.

2. Of course I don't leave the kids alone with him, I am training the kids as well as the dog.

3. Yes you are right it does sound silly, make the kids try to eat his food??? Didn't even occur to me to try that! Of course I haven't.

4. We don't all need to be behaviourists to understand our dogs, and I never said dogs were trying to take over the world.

[magical Merlin]

Sorry, wasn't emplying your stupid at all,

Its just most people including me were told these were the right things to do.

Lots of people who believe in the dominance theroy are told to eat before their dog or pretend to eat he dogs food, its very commonly done by mistake.

TBH if you know the dominance theroy is a load of rubbish why start your thread with your pack order is wrong? you are implying you believe your dog thinks its a person....or that it thinks you are dogs.

Sadly there are lots of people still pretending to behave like dogs, so i was just trying to explane to anyone who reads the post that dogs do not want to be dominant over people...eg they are not trying to take over the world.

It is my honest oppinon that anyone who owns a dog should at least know the basics of their language. Granted you have been given bad advice in the past by people that should know better, but dog ownership is a learning curb. God knows I learn new stuff on a daily basis.

Several people said don't leave the children wth the dog....perhapese you should try not to attack people that are trying to help you.If you do not like the advice have offered you then don't do it.....simple

You have also posted in another thread about storm being defiant...again something people say because they dont know dog language/behaviour. Bec posted in reply to that so i didn't.

I really didn't mean to emply you were stupid, was just trying to give you some insite into what your puppy is thinking/doing. Im sure you are very aware if you can become valuable to him and get reliable training with him then future issues wont pop up.

[Arooroomom]

I don't think Heather was being condescending at all. Through the years i've been told so many different things by so many different people- both professional and amateur. Some things have been correct, others not so. C. Milian really has "rocked" the dog world and i see SO MANY people using his techniques or thinking they are "mini-experts" because they repeat what he says verbatim.

I think there are a few major points here. The first being the obvious: watch your children around him. If he's got an issue with food, supervise him at all times with food. This is a given. Remember that this isn't always just a direct reply to you... but to the other people reading this for help as well. Try not to take things too personally as this is the internet and you (nor I) have no way of knowing the tone in which things are being said, as well as to whom they're directed to.

Having your kids take a more in charge role about his feeding. Have them measure it out, put it in his bowl, ask for a sit, and then putting it on the ground and releasing him to eat. I understand you were told to take away his food while eating but let me share something about that.... Cheyenne is now 2 years old. I've had her since 8-10 weeks old when she was dumped for having a UTI. My ex-boyfriend wanted the dogs to be perfect so when he heard that it was good to take their food away while they were eating, he took that and applied it to both Mickey and Cheyenne. He did it to Cheyenne at least 3-4 times a week until he finally left when she was 6 months old. She is terrified to eat. I've finally just been able to start feeding her out of the crate last month (big step for us, she used to have to be in the crate with a towel covering it, in the other room.) She was terrified to eat in front of anyone, including the dogs. It really screwed her up. Not saying it will do the same to Storm, but not everything everyones tells you to do to the dog is always the best.

If you are worried still about Storm eating around the children, consider crating him while eating or putting him in another room. Or just keeping the kids away. Something that may also help (as it's helped us with a dog who was food aggressive) is feeding him on the floor. Just dumping whatever his portion is on the floor. With a bowl they have a direct area that they feel they need to "guard," putting it on the floor has totally erased that problem for us as it spreads out the area and they can't "guard" it all.

[mrs_aggie]

Sorry hun, I dont have any advice really to give.

We got Nikita at about 4 months and I dont know if it was the right or wrong thing to do (and to be honest I dont particularly care it worked for us) I'd go up and stroke her etc while she was eating (the same as I did with my rescue dog) I have taken her food away from her a few times, if she tried to snap at me. At the end of the day for us be it the right or wrong way, my 11 yr old, and 10 year old can both take things off the dog if they need to and my 10 month old can stroke and play with her while she is eating/chewing a bone and she doesnt react at all, except maybe to get up and leave the bone but saying that she lets my 10 month old do absolutely anything to her lol

[Storm Angel n Auroras Mum]

sometimes it is just not knowing the right way to word it when you are posting it. However he is being ok lately and both kids have been feeding him all his meals, without any accidents.

[Bec]

I agree with others who have said that you shouldn't fuss with your dog or their food when they are eating - doing so can actual create a resource guarder. If I knew that every time someone walked by me as I was eating they were going to grab my food and take it off me, or touch me, or put their hand in my food I would want to tell them to eff off too

What is your routine when you feed him?