sammie Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Hello, I am very very annoyed that i have to post this, but we have had some complaints made against us by our neighbours regarding Suka's barking...My question to you all is, how do i stop it...He doesn't do it all the time, he doesn't do it at ungodly hours, and as far as i am aware he doesn't do it when he is left alone during the day... What i do know is he does do in the morning when he is waiting for his breakfast, he does do it if we shut him in after he has been playing outside, and he does do it if one of us stands in the front garden, or if someone walks down the alleyway between the 2 houses, he also barks if he hears our car leaving/returning (i know this as i sent andy out to the shop and i sat queitly in the living room listening) Suka barked when andy left the house and barked when he returned to the house. Sometimes i find it really really stressful because i am very very aware that he can be a noisy git at times, however, squirting him with water and saying quiet failed...ignoring him failed..and i really don't know how to get him to stop it...He doesn't just bark once and drop it, when he starts he carries on for ages...and whining. I really need some tips here because i can see a similar situation evolving with the neighbours that did in our old house and we were forced to get rid of that dog because of it! Why can't people just cut him a bit of slack, he's a puppy, its not like he does it all hours. I know for a fact that the neighbour that complained leaves her dog over weekends with no one there and all her dog does is bark, continuously into the small hours...and when i mentioned it to her she said 'he don't like being left on his own'...erm so why knowingly leave him for weekends?! Her dog is far more of a noise nuisance than Suka, and i am gutted that all this stress has emerged right now...i thought we were done with the grief of neighbours that do nothin but complain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 oh Sammie, i'm sorry to hear you're having issues. I don't have any advice, i'm sorry. xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 aww hun so sorry *big hugs* don't let the neighbours get to you. Have you tried leaving a radio on quietly? maybe that'd make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 we usually leave the telly on when we go out...doesn't seem to help...he just carries on regardless...its the high pitched whining more than the barking that makes the most noise...I could seriously cry right now...everytime he does it now i am getting more stressed because i know the neighbours have complained...and i really dont want the pressure from the housing association that we had last time...it drove me to depression and i really really don't wanna go there again. I equally can't bear the thought that they might force me to get rid of him. As the complaint is almost identical to the one we had in our old house, the housing will be picking up on this pattern and naturally this will make us look very bad...So even if i do mention her dog to the housing, it won't make a difference coz its too much of a coincidence that the same complaint happens in 2 houses...GRR am so very angry...thank god i have Tae Kwon Do later!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Ok, firstly your neighbours have no legal case against you unless suka makes the noise for 20 mins constantly without a break....highly unlikely i'd think! However you dont want to have a bad relationship with your neighbours so finding a way of reducing the noise would be good! Skye used to make loads of noise if we left her, and this stopped when we got moo to keep her company! Does suka mainly make a noise when your not there? As for leaving them leaving their dog for a full weekend alone thats out of order and un fair on the dog, i'd be reporting that to the RSPCA and next time it happens get them out, they will make two visits to make sure no on e has sttended to the dogs over a 24 hour period and then take the dog to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sammie, can you ask your trainer/training instructor about it? Or perhaps get someone who is experience to come and watch him when he does it? Why he howls/barks makes a big difference as to how you deal with it - does the dog do it for anxiety reasons or does it do it because it's whinging/being demanding. The latter is easier in some ways to deal with, a dog who is over confident can be corrected for their behaviour and is much easier to deal with than an anxious dog, where correcting their behaviour can make it worse. I have a dog here who "whinges" to get her own way and it's done out of over confidence. You can try spraying them with a water pistol or making a loud sound (i.e. banging pot lids together) or giving a voice correction, something they find aversive to discourage the behaviour. If he's whinging out of over confidence again I would look at how you are handling him. Has he ever got his own way by whinging? You say he whinges while waiting for his dinner - don't feed him until he's quiet. Don't pay him attention unless he's quiet. Do everything you can to discourage the behaviour, consistently. This is where having a trainer come in will help you. For more extreme cases, and if the dog is barking out of over confidence, you can use anti-barking collars. I don't recommend citronella collars for many reasons including their low success rate, but the Jetair collars that spray a short sharp burst of air has a relatively high success rate; and of course, so do electronic bark collars, but I wouldn't consider one unless the more basic avenues have been explored. ETA: sorry, I just read that he does it when you aren't home. I would look at boredom as the first and most common cause. How much exercise does he get each day? Where do you keep him when you leave? How much mental stimulation does he get? Do you leave him with any boredom busting toys or anything to keep him occupied? If he's barking out of stress or anxiety it is an issue you really need to get a trainer to assess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Lucy - He does whine a bit when alone but not nearly as bad as when we are here...he just keeps whinging and gets louder and louder! Becky - I don't have a one to one trainer, i can't afford that, we were attending regular training classes until about 2 weeks ago, we stopped because it was costing a lot of money and nothing was improving with him, he wouldn't stop the nipping/biting and their suggestions were not working so we didn't go back...decided to try out our own way which seems to have worked he is a lot better now with the nipping/biting. He is very overconfident i think, its not screaming anxiety out to me, if we didn't feed him til he was quiet in the mornings, i am fairly sure that we would never feed him...he doesn't let up on the whining at all and we have taken the food away and left him for over an hour and he was whinging the whole time, i never give in to him, but i know andy has done on some occasions...Suka will be whinging and Andy will eventually go out and fuss him to keep him quiet...that i know is not good, but we are tired of it, he rarely actually barks...but whines almost constantly throughout the day....he does settle well at night and never makes a sound til morning and it all begins again. We have a water bottle to spray him with but it makes no difference to him, he quite likes it...The only thing that has momentarily worked is shouting louder than he is whinging 'QUIET!' but he goes right back to whinging. I know it is possible to get him to stop, it has to be...because it is putting a lot of strain on the marriage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sammie - have you thought about getting another husky / or another dog? I know that Kimba was a nightmare on his own before we got kaiser and now we've got 2 it's made a huge difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Becky - I don't have a one to one trainer, i can't afford that, we were attending regular training classes until about 2 weeks ago, we stopped because it was costing a lot of money and nothing was improving with him, he wouldn't stop the nipping/biting and their suggestions were not working so we didn't go back...decided to try out our own way which seems to have worked he is a lot better now with the nipping/biting. He is very overconfident i think, its not screaming anxiety out to me, if we didn't feed him til he was quiet in the mornings, i am fairly sure that we would never feed him...he doesn't let up on the whining at all and we have taken the food away and left him for over an hour and he was whinging the whole time, i never give in to him, but i know andy has done on some occasions...Suka will be whinging and Andy will eventually go out and fuss him to keep him quiet...that i know is not good, but we are tired of it, he rarely actually barks...but whines almost constantly throughout the day....he does settle well at night and never makes a sound til morning and it all begins again. We have a water bottle to spray him with but it makes no difference to him, he quite likes it...The only thing that has momentarily worked is shouting louder than he is whinging 'QUIET!' but he goes right back to whinging. I know it is possible to get him to stop, it has to be...because it is putting a lot of strain on the marriage! From what you've posted in the past about him over confidence would be my guess too - but that is just a guess. Make sure you do praise him when he does the right thing. How much exercise and mental stimulation is he getting? How often do you spend time with him, doing training or just playing with him? How strictly do you follow the nothing in life is free program? I feel your frustration. Sometimes it's easier to give into them when they are barking than put up with the barking, the problem being that the dog will learn that with persistence they will win, in dog training it's called 'extinction bursts' where the dog's behaviour gets stronger and more persistent as they try harder and harder to win with it. Suka has learnt at some point that whinging will get him what he wants, now it's become a habit, he's put that "trick" in his pocket and he'll bring it out every time to see if it gets him his own way. I know because my bitch will do it and she's the strongest most stubborn dog I've ever come across. Once a behavior has become a habit it is hard for you to break it by simply ignoring it - because of the extinction bursts I mentioned above. What is your routine when you feed him in the morning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Becky - he is left in the hallway by the back door as he sometimes still has 'accidents' and he is often left with chew toys or something like a pigs ear or a bone to chew. He is walked at least once a day. Saz - we were thinking the same thing, but i am not sure if the housing association would agree as all they will see is one problem dog and then adding to the problem...I really can't afford to move house again, and i cant have the stress of the housing harassing me again because of neighbours complaining...I am soo worried that if we get another it might add to the problem...the neighbours might complain more even if the dogs behave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sammie i'd really consider a 2nd ir definately helped here What i would say tho is go for a dog that needs rehoming, maybe 2 years or slightly older, that way suka wont be teaching a pup to follow in bad habbits!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Becky - he is left in the hallway by the back door as he sometimes still has 'accidents' and he is often left with chew toys or something like a pigs ear or a bone to chew. He is walked at least once a day. How long is he usually left alone for? If you leave him with a pigs ear does it make any difference to his howling when you leave? Do you think it would make a difference if you left him in the yard so he has a bigger space to be in when you are gone? You could try throwing treats around the yard or on the grass when you leave, so he occupies himself by finding all the treats instead of crying when you leave. I would be following NILIF to the letter. Re-read this article if you've read it before, because giving the dog stricter boundaries and routine can make a big difference: http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm I would also be keen to know what you do with him each day in terms of mental exercise, how much training do you do? How often do you play with him or interact with him apart from when he's in trouble or just hanging around with the family? What is your routine when you feed him in the mornings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Alaska did this at first, and we knew over time we would get another sibe as they need the company >> However i would never suggest getting a dog to fix Suka's problem, you must do that first, Suka should be as trained as possible before getting another dog or he may influence the new puppy to bark and you'll have double the stress. Alaska's was more, "im gonna whine for an hour and bark non-stop" >>> Once tha family went out for dinner, we walked her, left her with a little water, and put her in her crate with toys, chews and the radio on. The place was only a ten minute drive and we were gone for 2 hours (Alaska was 5 months). When we got back we heard whinning >> her voice sounded horse and she pood in her crate So we had to tackle two issues, Alaska hating the crate and relieving herself each time she went in it, and her speration anxiety. So we would go out anyway >> Soon she got sick of pooing and peeing in her crate so that stopped when she knew we would let her go pee in the garden, clean up the mess and pop her straight back in again!! And she knew when she whinned she got a sore throut and no one came anyway! Her problem really got resolved when we ignored her 5 mins before we left, so no: "bye, bye Laski" or "Hi Girllll!!" >>>>> We just leave her; and now she is as good as gold when were gone:) Suka doesn't have a problem as such, he's barking and alerting the fact that your home, or when he hears the car >>> Thats what dogs do, they bark!!! Your neighbours are being really unreasonable, they know hes a puppy and they know your in the procsess of training him. The only one solution i know works as my friend has one is an anti-bark collar >> So even when your not there it will pick up on the vibration of his bark and depending on what setting you put it on; it will either: Sound a really high pitched noise Vibrate Or give off a static charged electric shock Depedning on how you feel about such training tools it may be worth considering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Ice - anti bark collars are great but it's crucial they are used only in the appropriate situation. They can worsen a dog who has separation anxiety, and they should only ever be used if a dog is most definitely barking out of over confidence and not anxiety/boredom etc... if the dog is bored, the collar may stop them barking, but they will just exhibit their boredom in other ways (i.e. destructive behaviour). That's why it's really important to diagnose the problem carefully and why I would try a few other avenues first. That and a good quality bark collar (you don't want to use a cheapie) can be quite expensive, so you want to make sure that it will be the most effective and appropriate tool to use before buying one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice and Cripton Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Bec - I agree, for Alaska's case an anti-bark collar may have worsend the situation. My trainer has e-collars and anti bark, they are very expensive and he has good quality ones for about 300 and over! The great thing about going to a good trainer is they will assess the problem and decide whether it calles for such tools and if so they explain how to use it and let you use their equipment on loan. These collars (IF used properly) are not forever, sometimes it can take as little as a day to correct the problem, for sibes though i would say it would take longer! Sammie>>> The trainer i use is 60 for 5 weeks, he gives a training lead and stocks all the training tools. Look him up: John Uncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 what about one ov these - dunno if they wrk or not (ive heard they have) but might b worth looking in2? http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-pages/lentek_bark_free.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbb23 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Hey sammie, sorry to hear about your prob with the neighbours! Grey can kinda be the same at times so what I do is get a couple of plastic bottles cut a few holes in them and fill them up with treats that Grey likes and put in the crate. This would keep Grey busy for a few hours trying to get the treats out. Have you tried talking to the neighbours? Just keep doing what your doing with keeping the telly or radio on and maybe take Suka for a long walk befor hand. you might have to get a dog trainer in and once prob sorted maybe think of getting 2nd sibe as a friend for Suka. Hope it works out for you. Keep us posted! Mary & Grey x x x x x x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbb23 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Sorry forgot to say good advice guys added to reps. Mary & Grey x x x x xx x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbb23 Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Have a look at this sammie, it might be some help in giving you tips to do when leaving the house- http://www.stopbaddogbehavior.com/stop-dog-barking.html Mary & Grey x x x x x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Having thought about it, i think your first port of call is to go and talk to the neighbour, apologise, and say you realise that at times he can be noisy, but you are working on it, and as he is a puppy, it is going to take some training. If you state to them that you are working on it and you are trying to resolve the problem, then at least that could bide you some time. I will photocopy the training manual that my trainer has given me and will post it to you, so please pm your address. It does have some bits in there regarding separation anxiety and how to deal with it. Actually, i will scan it and email you a pdf...that way i'm not wasting work paper and it won't be a problem lol! so send me your email address! It also has a LOT of training ideas, some of them are basics, which is the first manual we got, then the next one is about the course we're doing now, which is the novice class...i am intending to do the next class up, but it depends on funds. I will send you that manual as and when i get it. Do you make him sit and wait for his food? Do you have a release word? I always make Eika sit, put the bowl on the floor, as i'm doing this, say "leave it" when it is on the floor you can either keep repeating leave it, or say wait. we have just moved up to saying wait rather than keep repeating leave it. Then to begin with, after a few seconds, release, and increase the time the better he gets it, Eika i can now make her wait about 5 minutes (haven't tried longer as i don't have the patience!) It will help to begin with, if you're not used to doing it, having him on a lead so you can stop him getting the food....he will get it, you just have to do it at each meal and be consistent, make sure everyone is consistent. Ok with the barking...Do you have somewhere you can tie him up, in the house or in the garden? Tie him up and take a couple of steps away...when he stops barking/going mental, walk up to him (not looking him in the eye) and give him a treat...walk back a few steps...repeat about 5/6 times then on the last one, make a big fuss of him and untie him...move on to a different training thing, like doing sits/downs etc...then tie him back up. Repeat this with just him going quiet to begin with...then after a few weeks, give him the signal for sit (don't say sit)...then progress onto down... it's all teaching him that you not being by his side is ok, and that you will return. It's more of a stay exercise, but it will help with anxiety. It will all be in the manual i will send you tomorrow (haven't got it with me today) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 also, if you have any questions about the manual when i send it, please just ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqwidge Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 just thought of another question, where does he sleep? is he allowed on the sofa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 our neighbours must be deaf, the racket these 3 make is unreal, we had asked them if they hear anything and they say occasionaly at night , me thinks they tell fibs, but we did as suggested by somebody above, we spoke to them and explained to them , they r puppys and we r working on it , and said if you do have a problem with anything please come round and let us know , its all about give and take for example they have their grandkids round on a sunday , and with how the boys play, lots of growling etc , we dont put the dogs in the garden if the grandkids r out , and sorry to say , we had the same prob with dief , thats why we got taz lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 hugs sammie! Sounds like you have neighbours like me, snobs! If our 3 have been left alone for a long time, Marley and Gizmo will literally scream the place down!!!!! Bandit is quiet as a mouse and will just be in his cage doing some form of dance routine, lol, but Marley will be there going "wooo wooo woo wooo woooooo woo woo woo woo.........." and Gizmo goes "hhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.................!" and I I have spoken to both neighbours about them making a noise and both sides say they are ok as it is only when we first come home and a few times in the morning that they will make a noise. I did tell my neighbours if the noise does get too much to handle or if they make lots of noise when no one is hone to tell me before they go and report it. They say that they dont hear a peep from them (maybe them talking to one another now and then, but not loudly) when we are out. If we do have to leave and are likely to be out for a few hours we usually leave them all with a bone and a few toys which keeps them occupied and I also make sure they have all had a long walk also so they usually will just sleep the whole time. Have you tried to give Suka a long/ish walk before you go out to tire him out? Or maybe play around the house and in the garden with him before leaving him? Another tip maybe to get him some toys which will stimulate his brain (like a brain teaser toy) and only let him have this when you go out so he associates that toy with him being left alone - Im not sure if that would be good idea or not. If your neighbours are complaining I would suggest just popping over them and appologise for the noise and let them know that you are looking down avenues as to how to reduce the noise. I know its frustrating but at the moment you cant do much more than just let them know what you are doing and at least then they can't say you are not doing anything! I would also look into another dog that is slightly older than Suka and has about the same energy level and size. You could look in your rescue shelter and see what dogs are in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammie Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 First of all thanks to everyone for replying to this...I will try and answer all the questions but if i haven't forgive me lol! Just got back in from Tae Kwon Do and my brain is scrambled! Becky - I try and make time to train with Suka every day for about 20 mins give or take 5 mins depending on the kids needs at the time. Admittedly at this moment in time we haven't got much time to play with him as we have workmen coming and going, we are also decorating at the moment but are aiming to have this completed in the next week. In the morning we go about our routine, sort the kids out and usher them off to playschool....then it is suka's turn, and he goes out for a wee first, then he comes back in and has to sit and wait for his food to be served...he has to get into a down and leave the food for a few minutes which he does well, he is then given his release command and he eats as normal, sometimes we take the food back off him and make him do it again as he seems to have a massive issue around food, he growls and snaps if you go near him when eating...he just isn't comfortable when you are around him eating...i always stroke him all over when eating and praise him when he has no reaction... Thanks Tanika, I agree, my neighbours should be a little more understanding as they are a dog owner themselves and have a dog that does nothing BUT bark!! We had considered a bark collar but only as a last resort because it is very pricey. I would talk to the neighbours but she has been really avoiding all eye contact with us for a few weeks now, she even had a go at andy the morning we were going to the sponsored walk claiming Suka has done nothing but whine all weekend (he hadn't!!) and that she was sick of it. I don't think i want to approach her when she is so quick to judge us when her own dog is a noisey little bugger! Honestly, i reported her to the RSPCA about her leaving that dog alone over weekends, and stuff and they didn't even bother coming out to investigate! Its ok for her dog to bark into the small hours when she ent there, but if my dog so much as breathes loudly she is straight on the phone dropping us in the doggy do!! Appologising isn't going to get me anywhere now, she has gone directly to the housing association instead of giving me 2 mins to explain my situation...after snapping at andy she stormed off and slammed the door so i couldn't even talk to her then! Thanks for the info sarah, i am keen to try this, i have somewhere to tie him up yeah and i can see that would work! Suka sleeps in the hallway by the back door, its the coolest and safest place for him...and us lol! He isn't allowed on the sofa or anything unless we invite him up which doesn't happen a lot! He prefers to be wandering about rather than lazing about! Amy - I would love to be able to take Suka out for a long walk each time i go out but sometimes it isn't possible due to time restrictions with kids schools, appointments and stuff like that... He doesn't really get tired though even on long walks, he has soo much energy all the time! I will look out for some mentally challenging toys for him though, anything is worth a shot i guess! Well someone from the housing association are coming out tomorrow, so i will just explain to them all that he is a puppy, he is being trained and it isn't gonna happen overnight, and they have to appreciate that this is a housing estate and dogs echoes can be heard from all over the place here, and it might not even be my dog they are hearing...i know for a fact there are other dogs here that bark a lot! Just when i think my life is getting together again following all the grief i had in my last house, they throw this on me and andy...I really really am not a happy woman right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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