Pulling on the lead

[Sqwidge]

:g_sad:

Eika is pulling really REALLY badly at the moment...especially when we see someone out on the walk or another dog. She pulled me out my chair this morning, luckily someone else was there and he held her whilst i climbed back in.

We have her on a harness, and i want to try her on a collar, but both myself and Mike don't trust them. I suppose i'm not really doing anything to correct her behaviour as she really doesn't listen to me. Well she will for about a second, when i stop and pull her next to me, then i push off and say heel and she just bolts past me...i feel like i'm doing this and constantly with her on a walk.

Do you think a half check chain would be good (or whatever they are called)? BUT are these effective if they are pulling away from you i.e. they turn to face you then pull backwards (she does this a lot!). I will speak to my trainer next class, which is now the 21st June (we've moved up to Novice classes now) about it as well. But was hoping someone could help me now!

i just am really struggling with her, everything else she is really good with.

I mean when we get her in a scooter i think she will pull fantastically well!!!

[Sarah]

OMG hope you're Ok Sarah xxx

Could try harness and collar but have a link between the 2 just in case she slips her collar?

[Sqwidge]

That's what mikey was talking about, do you know where i can get one from?

I'm fine, in some ways i landed on the grass verge! I mean if no one would have been there she wouldn't have done it. Birds and other animals make her look but not go mental!

[rose]

Hope your ok huni, we use semi-slip collars on our dogs , you can get them from SNOWPAW STORE i think. We have a NO-PULL harness for kavik as he is soooo strong since we started running him in harness with the bike. You can get these no=pull harness's from any pet store, this one helped with kaviks pulling.

[sammie]

Our lab used to do this something terrible, a real people lover and he used to pull me down the road, i'd literally be sprinting behind him til he reached his destination...We went to a pet shop and bought him a Halti Head Harness, and it worked a treat because when they pull in any direction it tightens across their nose and they don't like that so they stop pulling, at first he didn't like this harness at all and kept fighting to get it off, but he quickly stopped doing that and became used to the feel of it...once he started walking to heel properly and reliably we quit using the halti and went back to collar and lead, or if it was town walking i would have collar and harness with 2 leads so i can control head and body (he was massive for a lab!)

If you went to a local pet shop they should be able to show you a good range of harnesses suitable for Eika, and try them on to ensure a proper fit.

I hope you are ok though xxx

[Sqwidge]

Thanks Sammie, will have to have a trip to Scampers or Pets at Home this weekend!

[Sonic_Sibe]

Hi Sarah, the only other thing I can think to try is a Haltie, now I know they don't look the most comfortable of devices, but it worked with our Cocker Spaniel Ozzy, he only goes on it if he starts making a habit of pulling again, then after a few walks goes back on a normal lead. We just use it as a training device.

Steve

[Bec]

I'm not a fan of head collars/haltis and I definitely wouldn't use one on a puppy - they have a high risk of neck and spine damage.

No tool on it's own will stop a dog pulling. I use martingale collars (half checks) on my dogs, more for safety than anything else, to stop the collar going over the top of their head - on their own they won't stop pulling. However, if you use them with a training program they can be effective. You also need to make sure you can fit them properly, your trainer should be able to show you how to do this - make sure you buy one that can be easily adjusted and make sure it's fitted firmly behind her ears at the top of her neck, you want it to fit snuggly but you want to be able to slide four flat fingers underneath it.

When we let our dogs pull on the leash we are effectively teaching them it's ok to do so and that pulling gets them where they want to go. It is a learnt behaviour. So you want to do something every time she pulls to teach her that it's not how she gets to where she wants to go. I use the change of direction technique, so each time the dog pulls, I turn quickly on my heel and change direction. Take some high value treats with you like cheese/sausage/chicken and treat her when she catches up to your heel. Teach her the look command at home and use it on walks to get her focus on you - don't over use it, but work at getting her looking at you when you command it.

I'm about to go off to work so I'll write some more when I get into the office

[Sarah]

Sarah's in a wheelchair though Bec so i would presume she can't instantly change direction - any ideas on how she could reduce the excessive pulling?

Oh another one who is on here at work - lol no wonder the economy is failing lol we're all on here instead of working lol lol

[siberianandy]

oh hope you are ok sarah

like sammie said i would try the halti it is very effective we also used one on my moms choc lab he was a so and so for pulling and it soon put him right

[majormom2u]

Get a Canny Collar!... they are amazing!!!!!!!!!

[Bec]

Sarah's in a wheelchair though Bec so i would presume she can't instantly change direction - any ideas on how she could reduce the excessive pulling?

Oh another one who is on here at work - lol no wonder the economy is failing lol we're all on here instead of working lol lol

Ah ok - sorry, I didn't realise Squiwdge, how old is Eika?

In that case I would do the 'be like a tree' method (sounds stupid, I know!). Every time Eika pulls stop in your tracks. Only start moving again once she's stopped pulling - this might be something that your trainer can help you with to start with. I would also make sure you start training to begin with in relatively low distraction environments, as it will be easier to get her attention, and work your way up to higher levels of distraction. Have something high value to her (be it treats or a toy she loves) to reward her good behaviour. Do some work at home on commands like 'look' so you can incorporate them into your walk with her as a way to get her attention and focus on you.

I use look at lot when walking my beagle, if I see a distraction (like another dog) coming in the distance, I try and preempt it, and tell Daisy to 'look' before she sees it so I already have her focus on me. I taught her to sit at my heel every time I stopped walking so the instant I stop, she sits and looks up at me. This might also be a useful behaviour to teach and reinforce to Eika so that she learns to watch you and wait for your lead.

Dogs can learn to pull on head collars and aside from the spine and neck damage they can cause - the dog will go back to pulling the instant you take it off, so they really are a quick fix. It's easier in the long term to teach them not to pull, that way you will always have a dog who can walk on a loose leash. There are other training collars you can use that work very effectively, along with a training program, that are safer than head collars and communicate a lot more clearly with the dog too - but I would say that a half check/martingale is a good place to start if you use it with a training program.

[Bec]

Just to add further to my post above, head collars like ALL training tools need to be used carefully and nothing should ever be used as a replacement for training. Just with any tool, you need to be aware of the risks involved in using it and how to use it safely. Most people wouldn't go out and buy a prong or e-collar without having a basic understanding of how they work, the same goes for a head collar, half check, harness etc.

Here's a good article on the problems wiith head collars you might be interested in reading, it is a subjective article that talks about the pros and cons and how they work. You will need to sign up to the site to read it (it's free) but it's worth it for the training articles

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/54/97/

Here's another one written by the same author on selecting training equipment:

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/55/97/

I have a couple of articles from canine chiropractors about the dangers of head collars but they are on my computer at home, can post them up later though

[CanadianWolf]

never know that.. very cool info.

when we were first training walking out side it was a nightmare basicaly all i did when she pulled or tryed to run is stop and call her back. if this did not work a quick snap on the leash and a tisk sound usualy does the trick. have a firm voice when calling back.. this is not something you want happining show that you are not pleased but when they return always praise/treat.

have them on a short leash and always correct when they drift off no words are nessasery at the start. gradualy let the leash loose after a few days but with the same tollerance for correction. by the time you know it the leash drags on the ground and they are still walking beside you. when aproching something of distraction have the leash ready and give a quick snap to make them pay attention to you. even if a dog is barking from its home dont allow them to even look. another quick snap and keep on walking

i dont allow Suka to sniff or look at anything besides ither me or directicaly infront of her other than that she gets corrected for. when its time to sniff or play give a relece command and have fun playing

when i mean a quick snap its a little pull towards yourself to throw the dog off balace just enough for you to take controll

if anything gets out of hand its strait back home for a time out.

[Bec]

Good tips CanWolf

Generally I don't care what my dogs are doing when we are walking - I only require 100% focus on me when I command them to do so or I ask them to heel. I am happy to let them sniff etc as long as they aren't pulling and are walking nicely next to me. I don't allow them to get riled up or excited when we walk past another dog because I don't want them to expect every dog we walk past is one they can greet/play with etc. That is definitely a training and focus issue - sometimes I give them a quick 'pop' on the leash (nothing harsh or jerky) just to get their attention back. It's not meant to hurt them but the sound of the chain checking works to get their attention.

The important thing to remember about loose leash walking is not to hold the leash taut - I forgot to mention it earlier. The leash should always be slack in your hand, if you hold it tightly the dog feels the resistence and it can encourage pulling. The instant the leash goes taut stop walking or change direction. The goal should always be for the leash to be slack.

[Malamute]

Blizzard

Though young, used to pull like a train. Now with Halti and a gentle leader - very soft nylon double ended lead he walks besutifully.

Would recommend it highly.

Pets at home is expensive though - I know their pigs ears are about twice the price I pay!

[jules dief taz tor]

i tried the turn quickily with dief and taz, seperatly of course, and i got nowhere fast , well i got very dizzy, not sure about the dogs, and ive done the standing still thing to, that was even worse, must admit they pull less when seperate, but put them together and pull is all they do for the first 20 mins or so , then they calm down and can walk quite nicely, the halti worked short term as did a no pull harness , not sure what im gonna try next lol,

[Bec]

i tried the turn quickily with dief and taz, seperatly of course, and i got nowhere fast , well i got very dizzy, not sure about the dogs, and ive done the standing still thing to, that was even worse, must admit they pull less when seperate, but put them together and pull is all they do for the first 20 mins or so , then they calm down and can walk quite nicely, the halti worked short term as did a no pull harness , not sure what im gonna try next lol,

Sometimes it's helpful to consult a trainer and get them to do some one on one sessions with you, Micha used to pull on the leash and within 15 minutes of the consult with my trainer he was walking on a loose leash (I had him on a martingale).

[jules dief taz tor]

they can do the loose lead walk when they r worn out lol, the local trainer round here, charges 60 and hour , bit out of our price range, and we have heard bad things about the local puppy training thing, so will maybe have to look further afield for some help, i dont mind paying if it helps but value for money is a must ,

[Bec]

they can do the loose lead walk when they r worn out lol, the local trainer round here, charges 60 and hour , bit out of our price range, and we have heard bad things about the local puppy training thing, so will maybe have to look further afield for some help, i dont mind paying if it helps but value for money is a must ,

Have PM'd you with some more suggestions

It can definitely be really hard to find a good trainer and more often than not, the price they charge is no indicator of quality. There are lots of dodgy trainers out there who charge an arm and a leg for a consult that are crap!

[jules dief taz tor]

my mum and dad used the 60 an hour guy, he came to there house cause said he need to consulate with them first, he sat there yappin for 1 and a half hours and charged them 120, they book some lessons with him, his method seemed to be a sort of nothing in life is free thing, so he said lady had to eat only his food, as treats , lady is a monster and of course refused, he said to stop feeding her untill she would eat them , this went of for quite a while, he just didnt seem able to accept that lady would rather starve ,shes a very stubborn doggie lol, any way long story short , they gave up , after getting nowhere, the only thing they had to show for it was a smaller bank balance and a dog that would kill for a scrap of food, well anyfood that wasnt what she was supposed to have lmao

[Bec]

The talking bit doesn't worry me, my trainer would spend 90% of a consult talking to people and explaining theory so they understand why the dog is behaving the way it is - the practical aspect is easy once you have a firm understanding of why. But if a trainer can't achieve the results they said they would and the owners feel it's a waste of time it's clear the trainer is doing something wrong.

[jules dief taz tor]

he couldnt do anything with lady the first time, she just wanted to eat him, shes a bit like that lol, thats why i think he gave them homework lol, and to be honest he talked more about himself than the dog and her problems, then again he could see one of her problems , i asked loads of questions and felt he just glossed over them , i told mum and dad at the time to go else where, but they truely believe if he charge that and run a bussiness he must be ok , needless to say lady is now a 2year old monster , spoilt , n rules the house, well mum and dad anyway, ive been trying to get them to be the pack leader and its actually starting to show an improvement .

[Sqwidge]

thanks for all replies, greatly received! I will read those articles later Bec, thank you.

The things i have tried are:

- when she starts pulling, walk backwards, wait til she is next to me then continue

- stopping (altho this can be tough if she is pulling for something as obviously as i'm on wheels i just go lol!) - this is what i did yesterday when she went a bit psychitzo at the dog and guy we saw, then pulled me out...she kinda went side to side then round and then just yanked...she's a bad puppy!

- giving a tug on the lead...

generally, when there is no one around she kinda pulls but not really if that makes sense? And some days she'll be as good as gold, and walk nicely...then others she just does not listen to me, even if i use a calm voice, harsh voice, loud, quiet etc etc...(she is much to much like her father!)

The walking backwards did seem to work, but now she is bigger and stronger, trying to wheel backwards and get her to come with me is bloody hard!

I am working on 'watch me' (rather than look) and she is slowly getting it, but not reliable enough when i give it as a command.

"must try harder"!!

I know Pets at Home is ridiculous! I think until next week when i see my trainer again, puppy classes finished last week, novice starts on the 21st, but next saturday they are having people from http://www.cidbt.org.uk/ doing a course and they need puppies to do their practicals, Eika is going to be, erm...helping! lol! - we will see if we can get a connector and just try using her collar, but have it attached to her harness in case she slips it...then i can find out what the best way to go is.

[Bec]

Sarah, I would definitely be doing some focus exercises with her at home. Teaching commands like 'look' and reinforcing her value you of you - so make yourself really exciting. Is she very food motivated? If so, I would have some really high value treats (something like sausage, chicken, cheese, fish etc) that she really goes nuts for and use it for training only.

Have you ever done any clicker training? This could be helpful for you being in the wheelchair as it's easy to click and treat Eika when she does the right thing (i.e. stops pulling, looks at you or walks beside you). A martingale or limited slip collar would definitely help with you feeling more secure with her on the leash - unlike a standard flat collar you can fit them so they don't move around as much and they won't go over the dogs head so they are great from a safety point of view.