Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm not sure I would agree that Bec (Smeagle) is always negative - far from it. On issues like training, she is a fount of positive support and knowledge. Awww, thanks Mick When it comes to breeding however, you will have to forgive some of us for what appears to be our negative position. Let me explain where I am coming from. Every single day of every single week I get 5 or 6 'phone calls asking me if SHWA(UK) can take on another unwanted Siberian. 9 out of every 10 calls are about an unregistered dog purchased from someone who just bred dog A to bitch B with no other thought than the few quid they could make. Some of these calls are because the owners are going through genuine hardship - relationship breakup, homelessness, serious illness etc etc. The majority, however, are from people who, to be brutally honest, should never have had a Siberian in the first place. They did not research the breed, they were not interested in anything other than the "cuteness" of the puppy, they often did not live in suitable accommodation etc etc etc. They were sold their pups by moneygrubbing breeders whose interest in the pups stopped dead once the money was handed over. With advice and support, we have helped many of these owners hang on to their dogs and give them a much better standard of life. The others (more than 350) we have taken in (over 70 into our own house) and found new homes for. This is why I personally am so opposed to the breeders of unregistered pups. Simply because I spend most of my waking hours (when I could be having more fun with my own dogs and family) cleaning up the mess made by these breeders. As a result, yes, I may come across as "negative". All I can say is - walk a mile in my shoes and you would be just as "negative", if not more so!!! Mick Mick, well said and if only more people (not talking about people on this forum, but people in general) would take your stance when it comes to breeding. Nothing makes me more upset than to see a Siberian in the pound and the sad fact is that not all of them can or are saved from euthanasia. Seeing pictures on our local pound website of Siberians behind the bars, marked with the number of days they have left until they are PTS, breaks my heart. I know that before breeding I would much rather foster rescue dogs. I hope that I can do foster care when I'm in a better position to do so (i.e. a more dog friendly property, and one where I can have a proper set up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade hill Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 ok..i see this is going the same way as the other post elswhere. pls guys..lets keep things calm, and try not to single out individuals who have an opinion you may not agree with. although not taking sides here at all, i would simply suggest that those wishing to breed work for a few days in a rehoming centre to see the consequences of what happens when things dont go to plan, if for no other reason than to be sure they are as dedicated as they should be in the breeding and all that goes with it. please lets all just agree to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 here here x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 well said ade added to rep Come on guys play nice pwease - you're gonna turn me into an alcoholic at this rate lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 alcohol or not lets do a poll!!!!!!! sorry im mad on polls now! BTW, im not a person who will single out people if there opinion differs smeagle, and ive no right im a newbie but i just think we should keep it like andvise line not so much judgmental, thats all im saying, no hard feelings x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 polls are good lol Doesnt matter if you're a newbie or not your opinion still counts hun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 THANKS SARAH X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyn Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 And of course, you'll be prepared to take back any dog you breed for the entirety of it's life - prepared to own more than two sibes? More than three? Four or five? Are you prepared to be there for your puppy buyers 24/7 with any question they have?.......for the next 15 years! Smeagle posted that supposition, as yet unaswered. So Snowdog, Will you? and will you regardless of how mentally of physically damaged the dog your responsible for has become in 1, 5, 10 years time, no matter what your personal circumstances are at that point. Any responsible breeder would answer YES to that, without a second thought AND MEAN IT. and would be horrified at the prospect of one of their offspring ending up in welfare or rescue. Some say they will, but when it comes to the crunch, they'll come up with any number of reasons why it would be inconvenient to do so. You remain forever responsible for thre lives you have brought into the world and nothing is a good excuse to later deny that responsibility. Anyone can breed a litter, but not everyone who does takes that responsibilty seriously, or even considers it in some cases. If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem. The breeds never going to become extinct. Last time I looked, there were 8 pages of Husky pups for sale on Epupz, registered and unregistered at rediculous prices for an unregistered dog. Not one litter I would personally consider buying from, and one litter one there now with a breeder whom I know full well has had at least 2 dogs from previous litters go through welfare. Won't take their dogs back, but yet continues to breed more (and the sire of all those litters has a god-awful temperament and IMO, should never be allowed to sire a litter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 for goodnesake i asked for advice, the thread was for advice, wil people stop shoving quotes under my nose, i dont mind discussing the subject, i did raise it after all silly me, but i will not get myself into any arguments, i am here for advice not judgment i dont know how amany times i need to defend myself, and yes i would take back any and all pups if that is what was asked of me, i have the room so why not, and thats not a flipant answer its realistic, and i haveextended friends and family that would back me up in it aswell, how many pups are average in alitter what 6,7,8,9,maybe 10 or 11 so as i said i plan maybe on her having one litter and if it came to it and they all came back, well then the more the merrier. now can we please either just discuss the subject or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 sorry to snap, just didnt realise that asking a question for advice,would get people on my case, rest assured i wont asked any more questions, over and out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 lol its not worth fighting about everyone has there views and thats that breeding will always be a touchy subject on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyn Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I thought we were dicussing the subject? Discussing it means including both pro's and con's, and no matter how you look at it, there are always going to be far more negatives than positives and if you want to breed, you have to absolutely be aware of all the negatives, not just the 'nice' bits. The best sum-up phrase I can think of, as someone who has bred, is 'Prepare for the worst, hope for the best' We do plan to have another litter here, but far from exitement, Im going to spend weeks on tenterhooks, having first-hand experience of just how wrong it can go. Proposed mum is very precious to us, a girl from a one-off mating, giving a bloodline combination of which there is very little about. Shes not a ten-a-penny dog from bloodlines of which there are 100's if not 1000's around and doubtful we could EVER own a dog of her specific breeding again. Her litter will also be a one-off. The proposed sire has never been used at stud outside his own kennel or bloodline, and as he's of advancing years, it's unlikely we would get a second shot at this litter, so theres a lot at stake to worry about. If it all goes well, we will be chuffed to bits! we'll have the dogs we want to continue our kennel and the next generation of workers, and some of those waiting for any pups we don't keep will be very happy, but no matter what, we won't be tempting fate by ever repeating it again. If it does not go well, then we will have the cash and resources set aside for all eventualities and hope and pray any problem does not include loosing our girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 no putting a quote under my nose and asking if will answer someone elses question is not a discussion, and if you have read the whole thread all the way through you will see how this started, and provisions that i have ready and in place if i do decide to have a litter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawPrints Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 sheesh come on guys ffs breeding subjects are a sensitive issue on ANY forum but unlike others this one is nice and friendly and has great advice on offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid_Wolf Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I thought we were dicussing the subject? Discussing it means including both pro's and con's, and no matter how you look at it, there are always going to be far more negatives than positives and if you want to breed, you have to absolutely be aware of all the negatives, not just the 'nice' bits. The best sum-up phrase I can think of, as someone who has bred, is 'Prepare for the worst, hope for the best' We do plan to have another litter here, but far from exitement, Im going to spend weeks on tenterhooks, having first-hand experience of just how wrong it can go. Proposed mum is very precious to us, a girl from a one-off mating, giving a bloodline combination of which there is very little about. Shes not a ten-a-penny dog from bloodlines of which there are 100's if not 1000's around and doubtful we could EVER own a dog of her specific breeding again. Her litter will also be a one-off. The proposed sire has never been used at stud outside his own kennel or bloodline, and as he's of advancing years, it's unlikely we would get a second shot at this litter, so theres a lot at stake to worry about. If it all goes well, we will be chuffed to bits! we'll have the dogs we want to continue our kennel and the next generation of workers, and some of those waiting for any pups we don't keep will be very happy, but no matter what, we won't be tempting fate by ever repeating it again. If it does not go well, then we will have the cash and resources set aside for all eventualities and hope and pray any problem does not include loosing our girl. hey lyn once you've mated them, is ther any chance you could start a new thread all about it, what you go through, how the bitch is doing etc?? there was one of these on another forum, it was really interesting, had the whole forom on tenderhooks during the whelp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 i do solomly declare never to bring up the subject of breeding again! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 yes i would like to see that thread, hope all goes well.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I am seeing arguments on this thread too, again Im not giving any opions but wil be watching this thread also. Keep it calm please, im running out of malibu lol, seriously though keep calm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 oky doky xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyn Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Sid&Kira: Not sure on that one. This will be our first attempt after 2 failed matings, a mating followed by a phantom pregnancy and the one I duscussed where mum needed the caeser and spay, so understandably don't want to tempt fate this time. Not taking place while next spring at the earliest. Mum's got a team to lead through 6 months of race season before then and only has one season a year. I don't think it will even go on our website till pups arrive, Already way oversubscribed for the litter, so no need to plublicise it. Will happily share the pups development if it all goes well, but more inclined to quietly sit around with fingers crossed till then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid_Wolf Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 thats understandable lyn, i suppose your not going to want to be on here all the time anyway when you could be looking after your bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 QUOTE Shes not a ten-a-penny dog from bloodlines of which there are 100's if not 1000's around and doubtful we could EVER own a dog of her specific breeding again. Her litter will also be a one-off. The proposed sire has never been used at stud outside his own kennel or bloodline, and as he's of advancing years, it's unlikely we would get a second shot at this litter, so theres a lot at stake to worry about. RESPONCE I think no matter what breed, rare or not, expensive or ten a penny! all sibes/animals are prescious gifts and i would be on tender hooks with any animal, hope all goes well for you and you have a happy healthy outcome for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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