Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 QUOTE we know a lot more about human medicine than dog. its much easier to save a human life than a dogs. ANSWER Im sure vets would disagree, i know mine would! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 bec i understand that you have strong veiws but at the end of the day noone has said there just going to breed with out looking into to it so why post such a hard post at the end of the day if anyone wants to breed they can do so yes you can let them no that there are things they should look at and there are things that can go wrong and maybey you shoud advise rather than posting such a negivtive post am sick of hearing about people saying no to breeding god sake where did good breeders come from were they born to breed? no they learned how to do it properly and thats why people ask for advice they ask to learn not to be shot down and put off the idea! its like learning to drive if some one asked you to teach them to drive would u put a post about how many crashes there are and that they should really think about putting there lifes at risk? im sick of reading posts that are so negitive people are only askin about things there not saying that there def doing it there looking for knowledge not a mouth full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 bec i understand that you have strong veiws but at the end of the day noone has said there just going to breed with out looking into to it so why post such a hard post at the end of the day if anyone wants to breed they can do so yes you can let them no that there are things they should look at and there are things that can go wrong and maybey you shoud advise rather than posting such a negivtive post am sick of hearing about people saying no to breeding god sake where did good breeders come from were they born to breed? no they learned how to do it properly and thats why people ask for advice they ask to learn not to be shot down and put off the idea! its like learning to drive if some one asked you to teach them to drive would u put a post about how many crashes there are and that they should really think about putting there lifes at risk? im sick of reading posts that are so negitive people are only askin about things there not saying that there def doing it there looking for knowledge not a mouth full I said just two posts ago that I completely encourage people to breed if they want to do it well. I am more than happy to point anyone who wants to breed in the right direction; my first suggestion would be to get into contact with their breed clubs and find a good breed mentor. Breeding is not all roses and cute puppies, anyone who wants to breed should be aware of the risk and should go into it with their eyes wide open - otherwise they will not be prepared if something does go wrong. Why the "negative" post? Because when you decide to breed, sometimes negative things happen. It may be a hard post, but it's reality, and it's something anyone who wants to breed should be aware of. Are you suggesting that next time anyone asks about breeding, that we mention only the good things about breeding and never tell them what can and does go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 thankyou Keiko Mummy, thats all it is advice that i was looking for not judgment, good and bad in all walks of life butyou cant stop life because its scary you just gotta be very careful xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 thankyou Keiko Mummy, thats all it is advice that i was looking for not judgment, good and bad in all walks of life butyou cant stop life because its scary you just gotta be very careful xx With all due respect, this thread was not aimed at you in anyway. Your thread made me remember that I actually have been meaning to post this for some time, but it's nothing to do with you specifically - it's for anyone who is considering breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I said just two posts ago that I completely encourage people to breed if they want to do it well. I am more than happy to point anyone who wants to breed in the right direction; my first suggestion would be to get into contact with their breed clubs and find a good breed mentor. Breeding is not all roses and cute puppies, anyone who wants to breed should be aware of the risk and should go into it with their eyes wide open - otherwise they will not be prepared if something does go wrong. Why the "negative" post? Because when you decide to breed, sometimes negative things happen. It may be a hard post, but it's reality, and it's something anyone who wants to breed should be aware of. Are you suggesting that next time anyone asks about breeding, that we mention only the good things about breeding and never tell them what can and does go wrong? no what im saying is that everytime you put up a post its always negitive you come out with first then when u upset someone you start to explain that its not all bad! at the ebd of the day if we all looked at the negitives in life where would we be instead of explaining the bad why not explain the whole story first that way u dont rub people up the wrong way and you are telling them the good and the bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 no what im saying is that everytime you put up a post its always negitive you come out with first then when u upset someone you start to explain that its not all bad! at the ebd of the day if we all looked at the negitives in life where would we be instead of explaining the bad why not explain the whole story first that way u dont rub people up the wrong way and you are telling them the good and the bad Every time I put up a post it's negative? Are you talking about outside of this thread (and the other breeding thread). I hate to think that every time I post it comes out negative and that I'm rubbing people up the wrong way. That is definitely not my intention. Sometimes tone is lost over the internet and I can be quite blunt. I don't mean to be "negative" every time I post, far from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 why is it that the posts only come up now, this all started since i put a post up asking about kc, then i got all these post about breeding my pups and horror stories and no to this and no to non kc breeding, all i wanted was advice, and im sorry if none of this is aimed at me , but bloody hell what a coinsidence, at the end of the day, we all differ x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Every time I put up a post it's negative? Are you talking about outside of this thread (and the other breeding thread). I hate to think that every time I post it comes out negative and that I'm rubbing people up the wrong way. That is definitely not my intention. Sometimes tone is lost over the internet and I can be quite blunt. I don't mean to be "negative" every time I post, far from it. maybey you do not mean to come across so harsh but its how you come across i feel that maybey if you had explained the senario and that it was a general thread ment as advice with regards to the implications of breeding then people wouldnt take you the wrong way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 why is it that the posts only come up now, this all started since i put a post up asking about kc, then i got all these post about breeding my pups and horror stories and no to this and no to non kc breeding, all i wanted was advice, and im sorry if none of this is aimed at me , but bloody hell what a coinsidence, at the end of the day, we all differ x Once again: it is not aimed at you. I actually posted a link to this article in your first thread (KC or not) - clearly this thread is not aimed at you. As I said before, your thread made me remember I have been meaning to post this. If it was aimed at you I would have made that clear. maybey you do not mean to come across so harsh but its how you come across i feel that maybey if you had explained the senario and that it was a general thread ment as advice with regards to the implications of breeding then people wouldnt take you the wrong way All I did was post the article, and now you're saying every time I post I come across as harsh, rub peoples noses in things, and every thing I post is negative. I admit I was in a hurry when I posted the article this morning as I was on my way to work, if it makes you feel better I am happy to post a disclaimer that it's a general thread - even though I made it clear on the first page that this was aimed at no one specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 ok maybey everytime you post is not true however i have noiticed a few aruguments and you seem to be involved with negitive input ive ignored it till now but i feel its only fair that you should know how you come across to me and perhaps others i was under the impression that this site was here to help and assist owners rather than demotivate owners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 ok maybey everytime you post is not true however i have noiticed a few aruguments and you seem to involved with negitive input ive ingonered it till now but i feel its only fair that you should know how you come across to me and perhaps others i was under the impression that this site was here to help and assist owners rather than demotivate owners Hey, we've all had arguments, and I'm the first one to admit I enjoy a good debate. Those threads aside, I always thought I was helpful, not demotivating. If anyone else has the same problems with me I'd love to know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think it was wrong to put it out there and not explain only it looks like its aimed at a spectrum of people, when no explanation is attached and maybe people didint read your other thread, it should have been posted with the explanation of which it was intended to avoid such offense, and please i am not a byb, i have got a perfectly nice warm front room ready should i need it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I bought my first sibe 4 years ago, she cost me a lot of money, and so I decided to buy a male, let them have one litter, to get some of my money back. Thank Dog Diesel's hipscore was so bad, so they were both neutered/spayed. Then I moved back to Ireland and saw the crazy amounts of sibes appearing in pounds and shelters around the country. So, I got two more sibes of my own, lovely dogs, came from what you would have thought was a great family, they were moving abroad and couldn't take the dogs! Until you realise that the bitch is terrified of everyone, and has spent her life outside in a dog pen having 3 litters (she was 4 years old). So, started taking rescue dogs in. At the moment, in my tiny 3 bedroomed cottage (with a 12 pen boarding kennel attached) I have 10 rescue dogs looking for homes. Most of these are pb sibes or mals. I know I've told the story before on here, but in November last year we took a lovely sibe bitch in out of the pound. Turned out she was in pup. She had to have a c-section. She managed to drag 5 of the pups out of a crate and kill them. She bit the ear off another one of them - my Vincent, who we kept and I love dearly. 3 more of the pups died during the hand rearing process. One of the hardest times of my life, up every 2 hours to feed. Luckily Indy, the bitch that had come in from the family moving was a great help, cleaning the pups after I fed them. I managed to find homes for the other 2 pups, one in Scotland, thanks to a SHWA volunteer who did a homecheck for me. I don't know what I would have done if all the pups had lived, finding homes for 10 puppies would have been so hard. Also last year we took a sibe bitch in with 2 pups, they are GSD/sibe crosses. The male has a great home locally and I see him regularly. The female pup went off to what seemed like an ideal home, someone was home all day, they fostered for a local SPCA, studying dog psychology. Duffy came back to me a couple of months ago, now she is 11 months old and very dog aggressive. She is as skinny as a rake, and the vet and I think that she has psychological issues which are making her so thin. It will be very hard work, but I'm determined that she will get there and be able to live with other dogs. If anyone is seriously considering breeding, you need to make sure that you can take any dog back whatever state they are in and look after them properly. Otherwise, you are being irresponsible, you are leaving it up to others to clean up after you. I didn't breed Duffy, but we had her here from 5 weeks old. Do you know how I feel knowing that I sent her off to someone who has messed her up like this? It can be great for kids to witness birth and having cute puppies around the house, but how great would it have been if my then 6 year old had seen the 5 dead and half chewed puppies lying on the floor with the blood everywhere? Unfortunately my 13 year old saw it, I really wish he hadn't. These are living creatures that we are talking about, and I don't think that any child has the 'right' to witness the miracle of birth. It is a privilege to have these dogs and I think their welfare should always come first, not how we feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think it was wrong to put it out there and not explain only it looks like its aimed at a spectrum of people, when no explanation is attached and maybe people didint read your other thread, it should have been posted with the explanation of which it was intended to avoid such offense, and please i am not a byb, i have got a perfectly nice warm front room ready should i need it lol Backyard breeder is just the term for unregistered breeders. It doesn't literally mean that you are breeding your dogs in the backyard. I've edited the first post to remove any confusion as to why I posted this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I bought my first sibe 4 years ago, she cost me a lot of money, and so I decided to buy a male, let them have one litter, to get some of my money back. Thank Dog Diesel's hipscore was so bad, so they were both neutered/spayed. Then I moved back to Ireland and saw the crazy amounts of sibes appearing in pounds and shelters around the country. So, I got two more sibes of my own, lovely dogs, came from what you would have thought was a great family, they were moving abroad and couldn't take the dogs! Until you realise that the bitch is terrified of everyone, and has spent her life outside in a dog pen having 3 litters (she was 4 years old). So, started taking rescue dogs in. At the moment, in my tiny 3 bedroomed cottage (with a 12 pen boarding kennel attached) I have 10 rescue dogs looking for homes. Most of these are pb sibes or mals. I know I've told the story before on here, but in November last year we took a lovely sibe bitch in out of the pound. Turned out she was in pup. She had to have a c-section. She managed to drag 5 of the pups out of a crate and kill them. She bit the ear off another one of them - my Vincent, who we kept and I love dearly. 3 more of the pups died during the hand rearing process. One of the hardest times of my life, up every 2 hours to feed. Luckily Indy, the bitch that had come in from the family moving was a great help, cleaning the pups after I fed them. I managed to find homes for the other 2 pups, one in Scotland, thanks to a SHWA volunteer who did a homecheck for me. I don't know what I would have done if all the pups had lived, finding homes for 10 puppies would have been so hard. Also last year we took a sibe bitch in with 2 pups, they are GSD/sibe crosses. The male has a great home locally and I see him regularly. The female pup went off to what seemed like an ideal home, someone was home all day, they fostered for a local SPCA, studying dog psychology. Duffy came back to me a couple of months ago, now she is 11 months old and very dog aggressive. She is as skinny as a rake, and the vet and I think that she has psychological issues which are making her so thin. It will be very hard work, but I'm determined that she will get there and be able to live with other dogs. If anyone is seriously considering breeding, you need to make sure that you can take any dog back whatever state they are in and look after them properly. Otherwise, you are being irresponsible, you are leaving it up to others to clean up after you. I didn't breed Duffy, but we had her here from 5 weeks old. Do you know how I feel knowing that I sent her off to someone who has messed her up like this? It can be great for kids to witness birth and having cute puppies around the house, but how great would it have been if my then 6 year old had seen the 5 dead and half chewed puppies lying on the floor with the blood everywhere? Unfortunately my 13 year old saw it, I really wish he hadn't. These are living creatures that we are talking about, and I don't think that any child has the 'right' to witness the miracle of birth. It is a privilege to have these dogs and I think their welfare should always come first, not how we feel. Great post, ISDW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Seconded!!! Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 intresting post i agree that if your going to breed you should be able to take them all back if need be however this is apart of what you would learn before you bred your dog people should look into what there taking on and if i had a bitch that was due i would be home all day to try and be there for her having pups and stop her eating them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hmmm it is called humour, i think i have enough noggin to know byb is not literal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 intresting post i agree that if your going to breed you should be able to take them all back if need be however this is apart of what you would learn before you bred your dog people should look into what there taking on and if i had a bitch that was due i would be home all day to try and be there for her having pups and stop her eating them The bitch had a c-section at 5pm on a Friday evening. We got home, and sat with her for a few hours. At 10pm I had to feed myself and my two sons. I left her in the room and the pups in a crate as advised by the vet. I popped in and out during the cooking process - I chucked some frozen chips into a deep fat frier. In the 20 minutes that it took me to serve and eat my dinner at 10.30 at night, she had done this. The pups were bigger than the gaps in the crate, to this day I still don't know how she did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm not sure I would agree that Bec (Smeagle) is always negative - far from it. On issues like training, she is a fount of positive support and knowledge. When it comes to breeding however, you will have to forgive some of us for what appears to be our negative position. Let me explain where I am coming from. Every single day of every single week I get 5 or 6 'phone calls asking me if SHWA(UK) can take on another unwanted Siberian. 9 out of every 10 calls are about an unregistered dog purchased from someone who just bred dog A to bitch B with no other thought than the few quid they could make. Some of these calls are because the owners are going through genuine hardship - relationship breakup, homelessness, serious illness etc etc. The majority, however, are from people who, to be brutally honest, should never have had a Siberian in the first place. They did not research the breed, they were not interested in anything other than the "cuteness" of the puppy, they often did not live in suitable accommodation etc etc etc. They were sold their pups by moneygrubbing breeders whose interest in the pups stopped dead once the money was handed over. With advice and support, we have helped many of these owners hang on to their dogs and give them a much better standard of life. The others (more than 350) we have taken in (over 70 into our own house) and found new homes for. This is why I personally am so opposed to the breeders of unregistered pups. Simply because I spend most of my waking hours (when I could be having more fun with my own dogs and family) cleaning up the mess made by these breeders. As a result, yes, I may come across as "negative". All I can say is - walk a mile in my shoes and you would be just as "negative", if not more so!!! Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest snowdog Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 i bought my first sibe 4 years ago, she cost me a lot of money, and so i decided to buy a male, let them have one litter, to get some of my money back. Thank dog diesel's hipscore was so bad, so they were both neutered/spayed. Then i moved back to ireland and saw the crazy amounts of sibes appearing in pounds and shelters around the country. So, i got two more sibes of my own, lovely dogs, came from what you would have thought was a great family, they were moving abroad and couldn't take the dogs! Until you realise that the bitch is terrified of everyone, and has spent her life outside in a dog pen having 3 litters (she was 4 years old). So, started taking rescue dogs in. At the moment, in my tiny 3 bedroomed cottage (with a 12 pen boarding kennel attached) i have 10 rescue dogs looking for homes. Most of these are pb sibes or mals. I know i've told the story before on here, but in november last year we took a lovely sibe bitch in out of the pound. Turned out she was in pup. She had to have a c-section. She managed to drag 5 of the pups out of a crate and kill them. She bit the ear off another one of them - my vincent, who we kept and i love dearly. 3 more of the pups died during the hand rearing process. One of the hardest times of my life, up every 2 hours to feed. Luckily indy, the bitch that had come in from the family moving was a great help, cleaning the pups after i fed them. I managed to find homes for the other 2 pups, one in scotland, thanks to a shwa volunteer who did a homecheck for me. I don't know what i would have done if all the pups had lived, finding homes for 10 puppies would have been so hard. Also last year we took a sibe bitch in with 2 pups, they are gsd/sibe crosses. The male has a great home locally and i see him regularly. The female pup went off to what seemed like an ideal home, someone was home all day, they fostered for a local spca, studying dog psychology. Duffy came back to me a couple of months ago, now she is 11 months old and very dog aggressive. She is as skinny as a rake, and the vet and i think that she has psychological issues which are making her so thin. It will be very hard work, but i'm determined that she will get there and be able to live with other dogs. If anyone is seriously considering breeding, you need to make sure that you can take any dog back whatever state they are in and look after them properly. Otherwise, you are being irresponsible, you are leaving it up to others to clean up after you. I didn't breed duffy, but we had her here from 5 weeks old. Do you know how i feel knowing that i sent her off to someone who has messed her up like this? It can be great for kids to witness birth and having cute puppies around the house, but how great would it have been if my then 6 year old had seen the 5 dead and half chewed puppies lying on the floor with the blood everywhere? Unfortunately my 13 year old saw it, i really wish he hadn't. These are living creatures that we are talking about, and i don't think that any child has the 'right' to witness the miracle of birth. It is a privilege to have these dogs and i think their welfare should always come first, not how we feel. life is an experience that older children need to learn maybe not firsthand, but they need to know, my children are not blinckered tolife and death, nor are they exposed to it, its a balance and we are not selfish to want to enhance our lifes with another x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 well i am truely sorry that happened some bitches just dont take to motherhood somethings in life are not ment to be im am not in anyway saying breeding is easy of course there are bad things that can happen i said this to begin with what ive said is it isnt all bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiko mummy Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 i did say that i did not mean always negitive in all threads just in arguments as she said she like a good debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawPrints Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 it's hard to read how someone posts something on a forum - we're from all over the word diff cultures etc so i wouldnt take everything to heart. i gotta admit, i respect what smeagle and everyone else has posted as they are all opinions....which is why we all here. smeagle, imo i enjoy your posts and think u have a lot to offer this forum it is blatantly obvious that u care a lot about the breed and know your stuff about trainin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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