Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Opinions needed - Big forum change Hi All, I need our members help as I find myself in a bit of a dilemma and Im not sure what to do about it. Please read this whole post before making your reply as your opinions are important as at the end of the day, its your forum it will effect. BASIC OVERVIEW Earlier this year I posted to let you guys know that there would be eventually a very big change to the forum software. We currently run a piece of software called VBulletin which is the basis behind what the forum is built. Up until now there has never really been a product that can complete with VBulletin, however now there is. VBulletin version 4 is a new version, however all forum owners have seemly been pretty much screwed over with their licence agreements meaning in order to upgrade to the full suite of the newest version it is gonna cost $300 (180+). Invision is the competing peice of software which I have been looking at over the past few weeks, and if Im completely honest I think that it blows vbulletin out of the water. The complete suite of this product will cost roughly the same as the above (however is currently on offer for $224 (130+) Now if we change over, then this is a massive switch and will take some getting used to, however it holds massive advantages which I will outline in a min. DIFFERENCES Vbulletin suite will allow us to have a full content system, meaning we will be able to add more pages to the site and allow certain members to do the same (for example newsletters could be added etc by a chosen member), however in honesty this is nothing I cant do for myself anyway. We will also have blogs available to our members. Now I have tried to remain impartial about the blogs, however they are simply not even close to the quality I would expect from a blog, and not as good as the invision ones. Everything else pretty much is the same as we are currently, however it will look a lot different once we upgrade (colouring and logos will stay the same however). Invision suite will allow us to move the gallery to be more tightly integrated with the forums. New images will show up in when you click new posts, as will new blog entrys etc. The blogging system will be available to all members who wish to have it. There is also a content system available on invision suite which will be able to be used by admin only, however this will mean that additional pages can be added a lot quicker than they are currently. A download area will also be available where I can add business card templates etc for people to download. The pm system is different in that it is kinda like a private thread within your own little area. You can also add people to your private message conversations. PROBLEMS Well for starters there is the obvious problem of the cash to buy either one of these. We currently pay 55 (around $90) per month purely in hosting costs, and to be quite honest we wont be able to afford this until the new year at earliest. Now I have had the suggestion from a couple of people to open this up for donation with the donation bar as I did when we purchased the gallery. Personally I would like to ask the members before I think of doing this as I dont like to ask for donation where we can as this is a free forum and I would like it to stay that way. The other is the upgrade itself. This is gonna mean that there will undoubtly be somed downtime (looking at around 24 hours) whilst I upgrade us. IF WE GO FOR INVISION (new software) it will mean that there are certain functionalities that will change/work differently, and will also be some features will dissapear. BARE IN MIND however when you read that, we will also gain a lot that we dont already have on the forum. My honest opinion would be that invision is a better product by far. On top of this we will also loose bits when vbulletin is updated anyway until new versions are release for the addons we currently have. SO IN SUMMARY Im at a bit of a loss as to what I should do. My head is going around in circles on this. My heart says stay with vbulletin as I know the software like the back of my hand. However I can learn any new software quick enough, and invision is a better forum by far in my opinion. My head says its the best decision to switch. Either case will mean a big change, both will mean a better future for our forum. I will post more info on the differences between the software as I learn myself. Your turn guys n gals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid_Wolf Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 24 hrs downtime!!!!!! :eek: i dunno if any of us'll be able to handle that marc... lol na the new one sounds good, is there anyway we could raise the money for the software?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 24 hrs downtime!!!!!! :eek: i dunno if any of us'll be able to handle that marc... lol na the new one sounds good, is there anyway we could raise the money for the software?? As said above ... We had a donation bar across the top of the forum with a target of being able to buy the gallery at one point. This is something that could be done again if enough members would like me to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid_Wolf Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 might be a good idea, whats the paypal button at the side for then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERNOWHUSKIES Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hmmm i like the site as it is cos its simple and easy but...... i would be more than willing to help out for the upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 sounds good to me i think i can go 24 hours without missing u lol i have your number. i trust you to do whats best marc and i dont mind donating xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 might be a good idea, whats the paypal button at the side for then? Actually the paypal button at the side is linked to the same thing. Anyone can donate from there at any time. However with the bar on the forum people can see what we are aiming for Hmmm i like the site as it is cos its simple and easy but...... i would be more than willing to help out for the upgrade. Dont worry, the site will still be simple and easy. In fact the invision software is easier to use than this one in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiurge Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 VB4.0 right now just isn't worth it. A lot of bugs and fixes still need to be done. They're essentially going to release a product that isn't perfect, and fixes will come down the line. Also, current add-ons for any 3.x version of VB won't work on 4.0, and it will be some time before those add-ons are recoded to work with VB4. Also, from what I've heard, VB4 drops it's use of HTML (sort of) and implements a new proprietary code that will have to be learned. IPB (this is the Invision software you're talking about, right?) is pretty decent for forums. The few boards that I've seen running this work pretty well. Add-on support is generally handled by the community, which means a lot of add-ons are offered for free, and community development can often solve technical issues much quicker than a formal software team at a company. All that said, each has their advantages. Personally, I prefer the look and feel of VB over IPB (though there may be great mods and skins for IPB that give it a better look). However, I can definitely understand a desire to switch over to IPB (cost, for one, not sure what specific advantages you feel it has). I think IPB will definitely handle the forum just fine, as I've seen it run pretty large forums before. I don't have an issue with asking people to chip in whatever they can for a forum upgrade. Could even turn it into a nice little contest or rewards program. First 5 people to donate in excess of $XX can put in a request for a specific color theme or design idea, new forum area, new page idea, etc. Themes could probably pretty easily be done and handled on request (tons available if I remember correctly). Design ideas, forum areas, page ideas etc could be put to community vote. Just random thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 sounds good to me i think i can go 24 hours without missing u lol i have your number. i trust you to do whats best marc and i dont mind donating xxx Cheers linda .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majormom2u Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Marc, 24 hour without you guys will give me withdraw pains, but!... I'm all for improvement! You can count on me!... I will like also to donate a basket of treats for a raffle or contest prize if that would help raise money. All the people here have been very supportive and now with my daughter's education needs, you have helped me reach more people in search for support to help her finish her education. I am totally in... doggie treat basket and all!... Let me know if there's anything else we can help with, and Nina, Shiloh and I will be there!!! Pawhugs! Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ouch ... someone been readin LOL VB4.0 right now just isn't worth it. A lot of bugs and fixes still need to be done. They're essentially going to release a product that isn't perfect, and fixes will come down the line. Also, current add-ons for any 3.x version of VB won't work on 4.0, and it will be some time before those add-ons are recoded to work with VB4. Also, from what I've heard, VB4 drops it's use of HTML (sort of) and implements a new proprietary code that will have to be learned. Its not dropping the use of html entirely, its simply coding the whole skin in CSS which is something that the other software has been also doing in its newest release. IPB (this is the Invision software you're talking about, right?) is pretty decent for forums. The few boards that I've seen running this work pretty well. Add-on support is generally handled by the community, which means a lot of add-ons are offered for free, and community development can often solve technical issues much quicker than a formal software team at a company. By the sounds of it, your at the same point as I was around a couple of week ago with IPB and still in the realms of 2.0 series. The software was good but didnt touch vbulletin. I would recomment registering on their support forums and playing with it as a user, then getting an admin demo. They are now leaps and bounds ahead of vbulletin, its simply vbulletins reputation that is keeping it alive at present. I was seriously amazed. IPB 3 has not been out for very long and is pretty much their answer to vb4. They beat them hands down and they are also now supported by full friendly support staff. All that said, each has their advantages. Personally, I prefer the look and feel of VB over IPB (though there may be great mods and skins for IPB that give it a better look). However, I can definitely understand a desire to switch over to IPB (cost, for one, not sure what specific advantages you feel it has). I think IPB will definitely handle the forum just fine, as I've seen it run pretty large forums before. Again, what your talking about there is IBP of old. Cost is now not an advantage at all. IPB is now a comercial product that is as expensive (in fact it cost more) as Vbulletin. It can now hold as much if not more than vbulletin. Everything you can do with vbulletin you can do with ibp and a lot more. The skin design is now out of this world. You only need to look at vbulletin default along side it to see that its miles ahead. Dont forget this forum looks nothing like default vbulletin and I would personally say that ipb default skin is close to being as good as this one is. I seriously urge you to have a look if you are running forums yourself, which by the sounds of it you are I don't have an issue with asking people to chip in whatever they can for a forum upgrade. Could even turn it into a nice little contest or rewards program. First 5 people to donate in excess of $XX can put in a request for a specific color theme or design idea, new forum area, new page idea, etc. Themes could probably pretty easily be done and handled on request (tons available if I remember correctly). Design ideas, forum areas, page ideas etc could be put to community vote. Just random thoughts. Gotta say I like your ideas on the reward ideas with skins... Gonna have a serious think on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Dear Marc, 24 hour without you guys will give me withdraw pains, but!... I'm all for improvement! You can count on me!... I will like also to donate a basket of treats for a raffle or contest prize if that would help raise money. All the people here have been very supportive and now with my daughter's education needs, you have helped me reach more people in search for support to help her finish her education. I am totally in... doggie treat basket and all!... Let me know if there's anything else we can help with, and Nina, Shiloh and I will be there!!! Pawhugs! Sandy Thankyou Sandy, that offer is very much appreciated and will bare it in mind once we start making final decisions on what to do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiurge Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Its not dropping the use of html entirely, its simply coding the whole skin in CSS which is something that the other software has been also doing in its newest release. Hence the "sort of" stuff about IPB, too much to quote I'll definitely go check it out. Didn't know they put out a new version! I seriously urge you to have a look if you are running forums yourself, which by the sounds of it you are Not running anything right now. Been a member of various forums for years, some IPB some VB. I currently mod another forum that is considering moving to VB4. Perhaps someday I'll get my own forum....nah! Much easier being an end user! Gotta say I like your ideas on the reward ideas with skins... Gonna have a serious think on this one Just thought something like that may be a fun thing, and then people feel like they're also getting something personal out of a donation. The forum software is for everyone, but they'd end up with their own personal colors in a theme! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Not running anything right now. Been a member of various forums for years, some IPB some VB. I currently mod another forum that is considering moving to VB4. Perhaps someday I'll get my own forum....nah! Much easier being an end user! Whoever is the admin of that forum, get them to seriously consider looking at IPB and playing with it.... Its eye opening to say the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiurge Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Whoever is the admin of that forum, get them to seriously consider looking at IPB and playing with it.... Its eye opening to say the least I'll definitely go mention that. That forum is pretty heavily modded with tons of custom themes and a pretty unique layout. Blog use has been incorporated, threaded private messaging, etc. It's definitely not typical VB look. OK, I'm running off to play with IPB. Didn't mean to derail a thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Come on guys .... want EVERYONES opinion ....... Its your forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thankyou for your donation Linda!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thankyou d.jones123 for your donation!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca_&_me Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ok so...Invision is better software...I think that if you think it functions faster and better you should go for it. I love the site as it is now, but I can see why a change would be good. I understand you want to keep the forum free for everyone and I for one really appreciate this, but since the site is for everyone, i see no reason why you couldnt ask for a donation to support the upgrade. Unless you think that monthly charges for web hosting will be based on donations to keep the site alive...I see no harm in changing to invision and asking for one time donations to purchase the initial software. Lastly, while the chat section/portion and a few other things will change with invision, there are ways to still have free chat for the members who want to use it. Im not much for the new chat system that will come with the new software, we could easily create a yahoo or msn group chatroom and post the links for it so that we can all still chat whenever we wanted to and it would still be free. As for the 24 hours of downtime...Im not going to be happy about it lol...but if thats what it takes to make the site easier to use for everyone...then Im all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca_&_me Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Oh and by the way...blogs are not that big a deal. I honestly dont care for blogs and I much prefer talking to everyone and posting and getting interaction from everyone the way we do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Oh and by the way...blogs are not that big a deal. I honestly dont care for blogs and I much prefer talking to everyone and posting and getting interaction from everyone the way we do it now. The blogs would only be extra functionality for the forum and wouldnt replace anything. For the most part the forum will function in the same way as it does at present. In fact its actually a cleaner, and easier forum to use if Im honest. As for the chat, yeah not everyone uses it I can see that however there are a lot that do use it especially late at night so it is a functionality we would have regardless of which software we decide to use Just to reitterate btw, the site will always be free.... All functionality, for all people.. Its the way it started and the way it will stay. If the donation bar goes up it will be purely to show how far we are away and if people wish to donate they can do so. Nobody can see the values people have donated and the only pro to donations is a bigger pm box and a coloured username. This is done as while we appreciate donation very much, we do not want the site to be paid in any way. The coloured usernames are simply a sign of our appreciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninooks mum Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 hi Marc I am easy and I dont mind donating towards whatever if you let us know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 hi Marc I am easy and I dont mind donating towards whatever if you let us know Hi Meg, Feel free to donate whenever you wish to do so. There is a link to our donation area on the right hand side of the forum (sidebar) under your member panel Alternativly this is the link http://www.husky-owners.com/forum/misc.php?do=donate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca_&_me Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Oh sorry I was a bit harsh for some reason...sorry bout that. I am happy to donate again soon, as many have said so far whatever your choice we trust it will be a good one. I think that it will be good either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Oh sorry I was a bit harsh for some reason...sorry bout that. I am happy to donate again soon, as many have said so far whatever your choice we trust it will be a good one. I think that it will be good either way. Actually I'm glad you made your comments .... There may be others that are confused about things and its a little difficult at times to see things from a general user point of view. Im a very technical person and its hard to be untech LOL .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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