Running Free

[keiko mummy]

we live on a mile long island ourselfs so theres nowhere for our dogs to run to and we brought keiko up from a pup and she was brilliant on comming back when called but now she 9/10 months old and she now only comes when she wants i have never and would never let my huskys off lead on mainland as when there pups the can be very good but as they get older the have selective hearing and high prey drive husky's will do what they want to do they are idependent dogs

[SarahNukka&Shadow]

we live on a mile long island ourselfs so theres nowhere for our dogs to run to and we brought keiko up from a pup and she was brilliant on comming back when called but now she 9/10 months old and she now only comes when she wants i have never and would never let my huskys off lead on mainland as when there pups the can be very good but as they get older the have selective hearing and high prey drive husky's will do what they want to do they are idependent dogs

Wow you live on an Island??? How cool is that!? Jealous!!! Wish I had my own private Island then Nukka could have full run of it all the time that would be way cool!!!

[Bec]

we live on a mile long island ourselfs so theres nowhere for our dogs to run to and we brought keiko up from a pup and she was brilliant on comming back when called but now she 9/10 months old and she now only comes when she wants i have never and would never let my huskys off lead on mainland as when there pups the can be very good but as they get older the have selective hearing and high prey drive husky's will do what they want to do they are idependent dogs

Dogs who don't come when they are called do so because they see it as a choice.

I train my dogs in a way that when they here my recall command, it's basically an automatic reaction, there is no stopping to think about it and therefore, it isn't a choice between 'hmm, is what I'm doing now better than what she's got?'

Prey drive can work in your favour if you know how to utilise it to your advantage.

[Austinville]

...They recall to there names and by whistle reliably. However, not having any previous experience, is this going to continue, would be upset if such a large dog had to be constrained by a lead. Thanks

My boy will be 15 next month (Nov. 11) - for the first 11 years of his life, we lived on a dead end road in the middle of nowhere. He had two square miles of "running" room. He still spent the majority of his life on lead. Given any opportunity - someone not paying close enough attention, a weak clasp on his lead, it didn't matter- he was gone and running for the next eight hours. He would totally ignore me when I attempted to call him. After he was tired, he would come home, head held high - so happy and totally exhausted.

When he turned 10, he got to the point that he would still try to escape, but not as often. When I would allow him to run free, he would stay in the yard - running circles around the house and then sit at the door asking to come in after just a few minutes. Unfortunately, we then sold our acreage, moving to another situated at the edge of a very small town. I can no longer allow him to run free here. Shortly after we moved here, he managed to escape while construction was taking place on our home. He ran to a nearby highway, running straight down the center. My heart was in my throat and I had to turn away as I was positive he would be hit. For some reason, he turned around - coming back to me to walk home with me. I was fortunate - very fortunate.

He still attempts to escape, even at his age. Because of his arthritis, he doesn't get far before he's caught. But even his arthritis hasn't stopped him from trying to run. You always have to be alert. You always have to be in control. You're forever responsible for this furry family member.

I have to agree with others who only let their huskies go in an enclosed area. There's nothing more beautiful than seeing them run - it's in their hearts and they'll show you their heart when they run. BUT, there can be nothing more heartwrenching than losing your husky when their prey drive takes over and their listening stops.........

[Lana]

Pack Leader I read very good advice so i will try not to repeat them but i would NOT suggest you allowing them to fun free. There are several things that could go wrong that would out weight the not gone bad yet. A lot of huskies owners lose their dogs because they let their dog off the leash. Huskies are bred to run and run they will do. They will run, run, and run more without even looking back. Woods there are prey, other animals, and who knows what else. Most often cars are the stopping point for huskies. I agree that Siberian Huskies do have selective hears. They will do pretty much what they wanna do if you do not stay on top of them.The are the "run before you walk" type of dogs. There could be another dogs in the woods that could do harm to your huskies since huskies are not the confrontational dogs. They are more like curious kids who are friendly with everyone.

If you or anyone insist on letting them run free i dont suggest it at all. Think about the pro's and the con's. If that dont stop you from risking your loved husky life then at least get them micro chipped. I suggest getting them micro chip regardless if you have them on leash or not. Huskies are the best for escaping yards.:eek:

[Lyn]

That article wasn't written about huskies. It was written about dogs in general. I've seen it posted by lab owners. I've seen it posted on rottie forums.

It was written by a UK husky owner :awink:

Anyway, Ive said my piece and given my opinion on Sibes being off-lead. Ultimately up to the individual to decide what they choose to do.

Not like I would have a clue what Im talking about really. I only own 14 of them, oldest being 11yrs, youngest 8 months and various rescues and fosters who arrive with every problem under the sun and yes, I choose to channel my energies into having them do what they were designed to do rather than spending time tying to remove their hardwired breed traits. If I wanted the most obedient dog on the planet, I'd own a retriever, but being a strong believer in dogs doing what they were bred to do, I own a kennel of working sibes.

Then again, Ive learned the hard way. Ive had a dog hit by a car, Ive spent frantic hours searching for escapees who ended up 5 miles away in a very short space of time, one of those two was 12 WEEKS old. I was lucky, mine are still alive!

I will also feel sorrow for the next dog who appears as yet another 'hit by car' 'shot by landowner' or 'lost and never found' breed statistic and disdain for the owner if that was a result of anything more than an accidental escape.

[Bec]

It was written by a UK husky owner :awink:

Really? Thanks for the info. Who wrote it? It really is doing the rounds of the net, in that case. Many breed forums and dog forums post it in regards to various breeds not just Siberians.

Anyway, Ive said my piece and given my opinion on Sibes being off-lead. Ultimately up to the individual to decide what they choose to do.

Not like I would have a clue what Im talking about really. I only own 14 of them, oldest being 11yrs, youngest 8 months and various rescues and fosters who arrive with every problem under the sun and yes, I choose to channel my energies into having them do what they were designed to do rather than spending time tying to remove their hardwired breed traits. If I wanted the most obedient dog on the planet, I'd own a retriever, but being a strong believer in dogs doing what they were bred to do, I own a kennel of working sibes.

Then again, Ive learned the hard way. Ive had a dog hit by a car, Ive spent frantic hours searching for escapees who ended up 5 miles away in a very short space of time, one of those two was 12 WEEKS old. I was lucky, mine are still alive!

I will also feel sorrow for the next dog who appears as yet another 'hit by car' 'shot by landowner' or 'lost and never found' breed statistic and disdain for the owner if that was a result of anything more than an accidental escape.

Why whenever I suggest that Siberians can be taught a reliable recall then I must have people try to convince me otherwise through emotional tactics? I'm not saying to anyone that they should just automatically trust their dogs off leash.

Did you read the first post I wrote in this thread? Where I said;

...you have to be realistic about your dogs ability. Could you call your dog off a wild rabbit if he saw one and started the chase? Could you guarantee that every time no matter the level of distraction that your dog would recall without hesitation? If you have any doubt about the answer than don't risk it, unless you are in a secure and safe area.

Could you guarantee any of the above with the dogs you had escape? Could you guarantee the above with the dog you had hit by a car? If the answer is no, then you didn't have a reliable recall and your examples have no relevance whatsoever to my opinion.

If you believe trust is "deadly disease" when it comes to your dogs then that is your prerogative, but when it comes down to it trust plays a huge role in the way we interact with our dogs on a daily basis, on a working basis, etc. Trust is not an awful thing. I put trust in my dogs all the time, for a variety of things.

[Lyn]

Could you guarantee any of the above with the dogs you had escape? Could you guarantee the above with the dog you had hit by a car? If the answer is no, then you didn't have a reliable recall and your examples have no relevance whatsoever to my opinion.

No, I couldn't, and no, I don't believe mine have a relieble recall, because for me, 99% is not good enough, and my dogs are far too precious to me to risk the other 1%.

None of my examples were emotional blackmail either. Those are all true examples. The owners of all but one of the dogs given in my examples are members here. The only one whos not was the one whos dog was shot, and the reason Ive met that dog and seen her xray is becuase after she ran off from her owner and was shot, the girls breeder took her back off the owner and then went on to pay several hefty vet bills for the dogs treatment. She lost an eye and shes undergone 3 separate surgeries to remove shot from her head and chest: That shotgun bast was AIMED TO KILL, and that girl is now a disabled, blind in one eye 2 year old.

[Bec]

No, I couldn't, and no, I don't believe mine have a relieble recall, because for me, 99% is not good enough, and my dogs are far too precious to me to risk the other 1%.

None of my examples were emotional blackmail either. Those are all true examples. The owners of all but one of the dogs given in my examples are members here. The only one whos not was the one whos dog was shot, and the reason Ive met that dog and seen her xray is becuase after she ran off from her owner and was shot, the girls breeder took her back off the owner and then went on to pay several hefty vet bills for the dogs treatment. She lost an eye and shes undergone 3 separate surgeries to remove shot from her head and chest: That shotgun bast was AIMED TO KILL, and that girl is now a disabled, blind in one eye 2 year old.

I'm not saying they weren't real - I was saying it's an emotional argument, which it is.

Living in Oz we hear about dogs shot by farmers all the time. Such is the life when living on a property or around acreage, you must have good fencing or god knows what could happen if your dog got out when you weren't around.

To me a reliable recall IS 100% recall, or it's not reliable.

[Lyn]

Its only emotional if it strikes a chord

Obviously, if you have the husky with a gauranteed 100% recall, it shouldn't.

If on the other hand it stirs concsious thought in the owner who *thinks* they have a dog with 100% recall, or they are not sure, and it saves that dogs life, then it's done its job!

Unreliable recall is the breed norm, 100% reliable recall a breed rarity, and I believe a VERY dangerous notion to plant the seeds of suggestion in the mind of the average breed owner and owners new to the breed in particular that they will be able to teach their dog a recall that will result in the dog returning EVERY time ALL the time.

[Bec]

Its only emotional if it strikes a chord

Trying to guilt people into agreeing with you (talking general terms here, not specific to myself) is an emotional argument.

Obviously, if you have the husky with a gauranteed 100% recall, it shouldn't.

If on the other hand it stirs concsious thought in the owner who *thinks* they have a dog with 100% recall, or they are not sure, and it saves that dogs life, then it's done its job!

You'd have to be pretty special to think you have a 100% reliable recall when you don't. Everyone knows that Siberians are a breed who are harder to proof than other breeds - not impossible, IMO, because you can never say never.

Unreliable recall is the breed norm, 100% reliable recall a breed rarity, and I believe a VERY dangerous notion to plant the seeds of suggestion in the mind of the average breed owner and owners new to the breed in particular that they will be able to teach their dog a recall that will result in the dog returning EVERY time ALL the time.

Any dog can be taught a reliable recall if you know how to train it. Whether or not every owner is capable of doing so is a different story. I'm not going to lie and say that it's impossible to do when I don't believe it is just because someone might think that means their dog can be trained with minimal effort or let off leash without being trained and proofed to recall reliably. If someone is willing to do that, when I have clearly outlined how much work it takes and how much you need to be able to guarantee before saying your dog has a reliable recall, then they are quite frankly stupid enough to do it regardless of what I, or anyone else, tells them.

[Dunc]

IMO thats just the problem we have here you hit the nail on the head Bec you are 100% confident your training works and IMO that in its self is dangerous not for you but for other owners and they will be out there that think if she can do it so can i :eek:

I the past I have read some of the best advice on here come from you and I know you are saying I can do it but I still dont think you should or even advocate it can be done even if your 101% sure it will work.

[Bec]

IMO thats just the problem we have here you hit the nail on the head Bec you are 100% confident your training works and IMO that in its self is dangerous not for you but for other owners and they will be out there that think if she can do it so can i :eek:

I the past I have read some of the best advice on here come from you and I know you are saying I can do it but I still dont think you should or even advocate it can be done even if your 101% sure it will work.

But I do have confidence it can be done. I have seen proof. I know people who have done it. The people who have done it are the people training me. Are you saying I should lie about what I know and have seen?

If you read the first post I wrote in this thread I am pretty clear in DISSUADING people from letting their Sibes off leash. I don't think you could call what I've written encouraging or advocating anyone to let their dogs off leash, I've emphasised that it's not easy, not something everyone is capable of training, and that unless you can 100% guarantee your dog will recall that you should not do it.

I have never said that my dogs were perfect, though certainly that is what we work towards I wouldn't call either of my dogs 100% when it comes to their recalls. Yet But until we get there - we don't take any risks. My dogs all work on lunge lines unless we are in a secure area, or at training club.

[Dunc]

I really do think you are missing the point Becs sorry you say you dont advocate doing it and thats right you do say that a few times I can read even when its not wrote in bold, but you also say its ok for you to do it now we all know you have told us enough times your are the dogs b@@lks at trainging and to be honistited I dont think am bad at it myself The problum I see is when someone else copys you because you do it and they dont see themselfs as any less capable of traning there dog than you maybe with time and practise then losse there dog.

Am I pissing up a tree here or are you now gonna come back and tell me AGAIN how many years you been doing it and you was trained by the best in the world ?

As a very old man said on here a few days ago Huskys should never be trusted or let off the lead it only takes once........

[Bec]

I really do think you are missing the point Becs sorry you say you dont advocate doing it and thats right you do say that a few times I can read even when its not wrote in bold, but you also say its ok for you to do it now we all know you have told us enough times your are the dogs b@@lks at trainging and to be honistited I dont think am bad at it myself The problum I see is when someone else copys you because you do it and they dont see themselfs as any less capable of traning there dog than you maybe with time and practise then losse there dog.

I didn't say it was ok for me to do it, like I'm some exception to the rule. I said I need to trust my dogs off leash otherwise we couldn't compete in obedience. I need to have dogs who can work off leash and maintain 110% focus on me, reliably.

If someone wants to copy something they've read off the net because they are so full of themselves that they think they don't need to put time, effort and knowledge into training or because they think they know it all then that is not my problem. Should I lie and say I don't train my dogs to work off leash because someone, somewhere, might take it upon themselves to copy me? Even though it's against even my own advice? How much more warning do I need to give that it's not easy to do, and if you can't guarantee your dog is reliable that you shouldn't risk it?

BTW - you were the one who said I am advocating it. I'm not advocating it. If you 'can read it' then why did you say it in the first place? That's why I bolded my post, to put emphasis so all those people who are apparently going to read my posts and copy me are clear that that's not what I'm "advocating".

Am I pissing up a tree here or are you now gonna come back and tell me AGAIN how many years you been doing it and you was trained by the best in the world ?

No need to be a smart arse, Dunc. Training is a hobby of mine but I am only learning just like everyone else. I'm sorry you feel I've told you all "enough times" that my dogs are "b@@lks at trainging" (whatever that means). If talking about my dog's training is such a problem I can try and refrain from sharing any more training videos or posting about the training I do with them.

[Dunc]

I am a smart arse ask anyone that knows me thats why I get folk to say what they really mean not the way you wrote it before ( although I know you didn't ) it comes across the way.

[Bec]

I am a smart arse ask anyone that knows me thats why I get folk to say what they really mean not the way you wrote it before ( although I know you didn't ) it comes across the way.

Comes across what way? I am saying what I really mean. I was very careful to make it clear I do not advocate anyone letting their dog, regardless of breed, off leash willy nilly and without being able to guarantee they will recall 100%.

What more can I do apart from lie that I don't train my dogs to work off leash, when I do. I am not at a point with Mish where I can guarantee he will recall 100% in every situation so if I am in any doubt I keep him on a long line. I won't ever risk my dogs by letting them off leash when I'm not certain that they will either recall reliably or the area is secured safely, and anyone who does otherwise is very silly regardless of the breed they own.

[Dunc]

Your still doing it I give up after this one more time..........

You say when you are 100% sure of recall you will let them off yes ?

[Lyn]

Everyone knows that Siberians are a breed who are harder to proof than other breeds

And many long-standing breed owners how untrue that statement is!

If everyone knew they are a 'harder' breed, the breed rescues and welfare centres would not be full of dogs bought by those who failed to recognise and/or acknowledge they ARE different and in some respects harder to other breeds.

For the record, I don't proclaim to be an expert! Im learning all the time and have learned from my mistakes. Im more than willing to offer advice where I can, but Im also not so bigoted as to think I always know best and more than willing to take advice from credible, more experienced owners than myself. I didn't reach the stage Im at now under my own steam, I have some very knowledgable people to thank for large parts of that!

As for the suggestion of 'not being bothered' to put the training in, well, must admit that makes me smile and shake my head.....and maybe those who have met me, and my dogs, both at home and away from it may like to comment on that one

I do things my way, largely based on 'tried and trusted' methods of the wise and experienced, and to be quite frank, I dont give a monkeys if others think thats right or wrong, nor do I care if others choose to ignore or take offence at what I share, though I do feel sorry for any dog that suffers at the hands of a fool.

[Bec]

Your still doing it I give up after this one more time..........

You say when you are 100% sure of recall you will let them off yes ?

Well, of course I will - my youngest dog is being trained for competition obedience and to compete she has to do an off leash recall and two off leash stays. Obedience comps here are run in big open fields, with no fencing and plenty of distractions going on every where. There are a few Siberians who are competing at the moment too.

One more time... do you want me to lie and pretend I don't train my dogs to walk off leash? Like I said earlier - if someone is going to decide to let their dogs off leash, when they aren't trained to do so, despite the clear warnings I have given about it, then they are the kind of people who are going to do it anyway.

[Dunc]

No we dont want anyone to lie at all so stop saying it you sound like a parrot lol

So when you let them off there in enclosed surroundings ?

[Bec]

And many long-standing breed owners how untrue that statement is!

If everyone knew they are a 'harder' breed, the breed rescues and welfare centres would not be full of dogs bought by those who failed to recognise and/or acknowledge they ARE different and in some respects harder to other breeds.

Sorry, I should have been clearer when I said everyone - I meant everyone in this discussion. You know, the people who are reading this thread and who are apparently going to copy me.

For the record, I don't proclaim to be an expert! Im learning all the time and have learned from my mistakes. Im more than willing to offer advice where I can, but Im also not so bigoted as to think I always know best and more than willing to take advice from credible, more experienced owners than myself. I didn't reach the stage Im at now under my own steam, I have some very knowledgable people to thank for large parts of that!

So... I'm bigoted, because I've had my own experiences, and seen with my own eyes Siberians that can work off leash? Better go tell the woman at my training club with two Siberians who have successfully trialled in obedience, yes that's off leash work, that she actually has retrievers in husky costumes.

I find it funny that you are so quick to jump on me and call me bigoted, imply I think I always know best and assume that I haven't learnt from people who are also credible and experienced, far FAR more experienced than myself.

As for the suggestion of 'not being bothered' to put the training in, well, must admit that makes me smile and shake my head.....and maybe those who have met me, and my dogs, both at home and away from it may like to comment on that one

Where on earth did I say YOU weren't bothered to put the training in?

I do things my way, largely based on 'tried and trusted' methods of the wise and experienced, and to be quite frank, I dont give a monkeys if others think thats right or wrong, nor do I care if others choose to ignore or take offence at what I share, though I do feel sorry for any dog that suffers at the hands of a fool.

I am not saying that people who chose not to let their Sibes off leash are wrong. Far from it in fact. I would never judge what other owners feel comfortable doing.

Are you implying that my methods aren't 'tried and trusted'?

Lucky for my dogs, I'm no fool

[Bec]

No we dont want anyone to lie at all so stop saying it you sound like a parrot lol

So when you let them off there in enclosed surroundings ?

What do you mean by enclosed? If you mean fully fenced or secured, then no, the only venues used for obedience trials like that are indoors and off the top of my head, there is only one competition that is done indoors in Queensland and that's once a year at our Royal Show.

[Dunc]

Told you I'd try once more now I give up Your right

[Bec]

Told you I'd try once more now I give up Your right

Now I really have no idea what you're on about... I was just answering your question

I train my dogs to work off leash in "unsecure" (i.e. unfenced) areas. Does that answer your question? Am I missing something?