Alaska's aggression

[Ice and Cripton]

HI:wave:

Alaska can be really aggressive, you wouldn't believe it, in the park the other day a staff/pit came over >> its owner looking all 'hard' in a hoody, walking over VERY slowly, and i said "could you call your dog please" and he said "hes fine". So his dog came over with that staffy confident/domminant energy and growled >> so i let go of the lead at once! Alaska attacked him and ripped his ear and the dog got Alaska in the cheek and she went nuts after this and really started multi-biting the dog:confused: I had to grab his dog and pick him up in my arms and scream at Alaska. The boy came over (at last) and smiled called his dog a "pussy" and said thanks that was good for him to get him to fight:eek: I was so shocked and offered to take his dog to the vets+pay and he said he'll be fine and walked away. Im disgusted by his attitude and scared how aggressive Alaska is...plus how strong she is, i didn't know the problem was this bad....my trainer bless is of the older generation, i dont think he gets it! Any tips anyone!?

[davidjk]

block your dog when he tries to do this, get in his way.

also you dominate your dog, remember in the wild they would be put down by the alpha male/female, and would learn their place.

watch for signs of aggresion from alaska, these include being very focused on the dog, standing very still and stiff, and no tail wagging.

if he does this then block him, move in the way of his eye sight, or pull on his lead slightly and make a noise like "ch"

remember your the boss.

[Ice and Cripton]

I should add she is aggressive on the lead and on the lead only >>> for the reason she has been very badly attacked on the lead, where she had needed stitches, but more importantly it has affected her mentally. She is fine off the lead, but she feels trapped on the lead. If she is off-lead and another dog is domminant she will be the one to put them in their place, but when there are dog fights in the park she runs over to me, i really dont get the impression she wants to fight

[Bec]

I wouldn't be trying to pin her down or alpha roll her. You should never attempt to manage an aggressive dog with more aggression, its a recipe for disaster and you are more than likely to get bitten in the process - if you are even strong enough to get them to the ground!

As you probably remember me mentioning in the past, Micha can be dog aggressive. Like the vast majority of dog aggressive dogs, he's fear aggressive.

There is no way I'd encourage you to let go of the lead again. Some people recommend this if a dog is trying to attack your dog, so it can run away, it should never be encouraged or advised for someone in the opposite situation whose dog is trying to attack another one. Ice, you're very very lucky that this guy didn't give a crap about his dog (what an irresponsible idiot he is!) - he could have reported you for having a dangerous dog and you could have been fined or worse.

Once a dog aggressive dog has "locked" its sight on the dog it wants to attack there is very little you can do to stop it aggressing apart from managing it and removing him from the situation ASAP. As soon as they get in that zone, they are no longer functioning with the rational part of their brain, but the lower cortex of the brain, the medulla. They are full of adrenalin which means that physical corrections won't affect them because their pain threshold has lowered considerably with the rush of adrenalin.

Every time a dog aggressive dog is allowed to aggress, they learn that aggression is how they win. When a dog gets in that zone, that adrenalin rush will also release endorphins in their brain which means they also get a chemical reward for aggressing - so a dog that attacks others can actually find the behaviour rewarding. For this reason you want to do everything in your power to manage Alaska so she is not given the opportunity to act aggressively towards other dogs. Some people advise you to get them out there and around lots of other dogs, I don't subscribe to that theory because it actually made my dog a LOT worse, because he was given plenty of opportunity to be aggressive, and develop his fear aggression. For the immediate future I would try to ensure she is not put in any situation where she has the opportunity to be aggressive.

With Micha I took him to be assessed by a behaviourist. She was excellent and spent a lot of time with us, working with me one on one and showing me how best to handle him. She also designed a program for us to follow so I had more control over him and I had his focus when other dogs were around, instead of him lunging on the end of the leash trying to grab any dog we walked past.

I started by getting his focus on me in low distraction environments. Once he was working well, I would slowly and ever slightly decrease the distance we were towards other dogs (even if the other dog had to be 100 meters away or more!) until he was working well and then I would decrease the distance again. Every time he lost focus and tried to lunge towards the other dog, I would turn around and walk him away, let him settle down, get his focus back and reward him for looking at me and not the other dog. So - separate, de-escalate and refocus.

I can now have him near other dogs without lunging and trying to grab them. I have had him at obedience club sitting meters away from a strange dog with 110% focus on me. I have introduced him to certain dogs I know he will be ok with (I will never be under the illusion that he will be ok with all dogs - there is a certain type that he instantly becomes aggressive around). I can do this now because I did all the work beforehand to get here. He's not perfect though and I still have to manage him carefully because there are some dogs that he will still react to. However - he is NEVER let off leash around dogs he isn't safe and comfortable with.

This is not a problem that can be easily fixed, it does take time and guidance and lots of work. I have so much more control over Micha now than I did back before we started his training regime. Our relationship is better. He's not perfect - and I am ALWAYS managing him with the fact that he can be prone to dog aggression in the back of my mind. We don't go to off leash areas and similar situations because I know its not only stressful for him, but that even if I can control him well I can't control other owners or their dogs, and you never know when they may be irresponsible. It's not fair but it's the best thing for my dog - if I could trust other owners to do the right thing, I wouldn't have a dog aggressive dog in the first place (it is because Mish was attacked that he was young that he's fear aggressive today).

[Ice and Cripton]

block your dog when he tries to do this, get in his way.

also you dominate your dog, remember in the wild they would be put down by the alpha male/female, and would learn their place.

watch for signs of aggresion from alaska, these include being very focused on the dog, standing very still and stiff, and no tail wagging.

if he does this then block him, move in the way of his eye sight, or pull on his lead slightly and make a noise like "ch"

remember your the boss.

Thanks added to rep, sometimes her ears will prick up and she will stare, her tail will be still or very slowly wagging, usually i brake the stare but this time it all happended so quickly. I was thinking of getting her an e-collar, what do you all think about that?

[Ice and Cripton]

Thanks Bec, will add to rep when i can. When Alaska goes for puppies i really scream at her to stop (and she does), 'cos i think now those puppies have a negative experience and i dont want them to become aggressive either!! Alaska's is also fear aggression, when she wears Balto's pinch collar she doesn't attack...what do you think? Getting in touch with a trainer who specilaises in thses things would be great, but i dont know of any. She is really fine off-lead, the problems (when its on her part) have been on the lead. I know the owner was too stupid to know Alaska had done something really wrong, it worries me 'cos it could have been another owner, plus i feel bad 'cos i know Alaska feels stressed and i want her to feel comfortable around dogs:s

I was told by a woman with 3 big GSD's that if i shout or smack her she it will be like acompaning a fearful situation with me as bad guy and she will learn to neither trust me or dogs. I have never hit her but when i went to a new trainer who said he could help, he smacked and she stopped but she backed away from him and looked scared. I was fuming, we got our money back but no wonder Alaska isn't keen on people (men in particular) too

[Luna]

an excellent post Smeagle and not much to add to it!! added to rep

When i've worked with dog aggressive dogs the main thing is absolutely trying to refocus their attention...not getting in the way of it or trying to alpha-roll/pin them down. They could easily turn on you if you try this.

an e.g. when training them - I've always found high smelling food works well. I will let them see the other dog (on other side of road say) but then get their attention using the treat immeditately. Don't give them the treat just keep them focused on it until we are passed the dog. Then when safely passed i will give the treat.

I'm no behaviourist/trainer and there are probably loads of other/better ways to do things but this has always worked well for me.

It's about finding what gets your dogs attention...cheese...sausages...squeaky toys.... etc

In the meantime if you have to go out where there are lots of dogs around have Alaska wear a muzzle until you are confident that you have the problem under control.

good luck x

[Bec]

Ice... I like e-collars and would have no problem using one, but they are not the kind of tool you can use for a problem like this without a very very experienced and qualified person guiding you on how to use it along with a proper training program.

Even with an e-collar, you will still have to do distraction and focus work like I did with Micha, its not as easy as using it to stim Alaska when she displays aggression. Punishing her or correcting her alone will not allow you to regain control and focus.

I would recommend that you read Brenda Aloff's "Aggression in Dogs: Practical Management, Prevention and Behaviour Modification". It will give you a really good insight into aggression and could give you some tips when it comes to managing it.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Aggression-Dogs-Management-Prevention-Modification/dp/1929242204[/ame]

I've also heard that "Click to Calm" by Karen Pryor is supposed to be very good.

[Ice and Cripton]

Thanks Luna, added to rep

[Ice and Cripton]

Thanks Bec, youve helped a great deal! I will get that Book, i'll keep you all posted

[Bec]

Thanks Bec, will add to rep when i can. When Alaska goes for puppies i really scream at her to stop (and she does), 'cos i think now those puppies have a negative experience and i dont want them to become aggressive either!! Alaska's is also fear aggression, when she wears Balto's pinch collar she doesn't attack...what do you think? Getting in touch with a trainer who specilaises in thses things would be great, but i dont know of any. She is really fine off-lead, the problems (when its on her part) have been on the lead. I know the owner was too stupid to know Alaska had done something really wrong, it worries me 'cos it could have been another owner, plus i feel bad 'cos i know Alaska feels stressed and i want her to feel comfortable around dogs:s

I was told by a woman with 3 big GSD's that if i shout or smack her she it will be like acompaning a fearful situation with me as bad guy and she will learn to neither trust me or dogs. I have never hit her but when i went to a new trainer who said he could help, he smacked and she stopped but she backed away from him and looked scared. I was fuming, we got our money back but no wonder Alaska isn't keen on people (men in particular) too

It's terrifying that these so called trainers are out there giving people advice like that :mad:

It is NEVER ok to hit a dog or be directly cruel to as a training method. And I'm not saying that as one of those 'positive only' trainers - aversives and corrections have their place but you really need to know your stuff when handling aggressive dogs because it's so easy to make them worse, and when handling a DA dog having control is paramount for their safety and the safety of other dogs.

The best thing you can do for now is to do the best you can not to put her in a position where she can aggress. Standing in front of her or blocking her vision won't work if her aggression is severe enough and she's really "locked on" to the other dog. When a dog aggresses their brain goes through a certain pattern - they see a trigger (the other dog), it comes within their threshold, they start showing the warning signs (we call this drive initialisation, it is that moment when they are deciding what to do, their brain is still functioning with rational thought) and then they go into drive peak, which is when they've locked onto the other dog and made the decision to attack them, there is nothing much you can do at this point as they are functioning on pure instinct and adrenalin. The quickest solution is to walk her away until she calms down. You can stand there fighting her and trying to force her to focus on you, but it's far easier to walk her away, let her calm down and get her focus back once you've moved her away from the other dog.

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

hey got no advice sorry what every1 else has sed is good advice tho - let us no how u get on with her

[siberian_wolf]

HI:wave:

Alaska can be really aggressive, you wouldn't believe it, in the park the other day a staff/pit came over >> its owner looking all 'hard' in a hoody, walking over VERY slowly, and i said "could you call your dog please" and he said "hes fine". So his dog came over with that staffy confident/domminant energy and growled >> so i let go of the lead at once! Alaska attacked him and ripped his ear and the dog got Alaska in the cheek and she went nuts after this and really started multi-biting the dog:confused: I had to grab his dog and pick him up in my arms and scream at Alaska. The boy came over (at last) and smiled called his dog a "pussy" and said thanks that was good for him to get him to fight:eek: I was so shocked and offered to take his dog to the vets+pay and he said he'll be fine and walked away. Im disgusted by his attitude and scared how aggressive Alaska is...plus how strong she is, i didn't know the problem was this bad....my trainer bless is of the older generation, i dont think he gets it! Any tips anyone!?

:eek: OMG Tanika I feel for you, we are both in the same boat. I wish I could help you out but I have a few aggression problems myself

[Sarah]

Excellent replies peeps added to rep.

Tanika, good luck - let us know how you get on and I hope Alaska is ok xx

[mbb23]

First of all GREAT advice everyone!!!! Sorry I am no help on this one but I really hope it works out for you and that Alaska calms down on the lead (poor thing its not her fault she has been attacked on the lead so much its no wonder the way she is feeling) Keep us posted!!

I just hope my Grey will be ok cause since his attack yesterday he has been so scared and aggressive with other Dogs and its not fair cause it aint their faulf when they get attacked on leads!!!!!!! :mad:

[Ice and Cripton]

Thanks for showing support guys! Bec i will walk on and see if i can find a good trainer, the vets gave me a muzzel for free which was nice of them. Whats up with you Amy?

[valkyries]

sorry i can't help here but some great advice given i wish you luck and hope you get this sorted xxxx hugs