SHOCK COLLAR TRAINING: SHILDER AND VAN DER BORG

[Macdog]

In my humble opinion, there is much unsupported and often emotional propaganda condemning shock collars put about by PETA, HSUS (and other "nutters"). Conversely, platitudes by proponents of shock collars and the industry ("it doesn't hurt the dog") are at once subjective, incredulous and disingenuous.

For this reason, the paper summarized below is a rather rare published, rigorously scientific study of the effects of shock collar training.

Personally, I find shock collar training to be repugnant and unacceptable in a civilized society. I think the paper adequately illustrates this. But that is simply my opinion - and I make no attempt to hide it. However, please read the paper and draw your own conclusions.

For those with a love of applied statistics, the complete text of the paper is available at: http://www.ust.is/media/ljosmyndir/dyralif/Trainingdogswithshockcollar.pdf

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Training dogs with help of the shock collar: short and long term behavioural effects

Matthijs B.H. Schilder Department of Clinical Sciences of Companion Animals, University of Utrecht,

Utrecht, The Netherlands

Joanne A.M. van der Borg Department of Ethology and Socio-Ecology, University of Utrecht, Utrecht,

The Netherlands

Published in "Applied Animal Behaviour Science" Vol 85 (2004) pp319–334

Abstract

Behavioural effects of the use of a shock collar during guard dog training of German shepherd dogs were studied. Direct reactions of 32 dogs to 107 shocks showed reactions ... that suggest stress or fear and pain. Most of these immediate reactions lasted only a fraction of a second. The behaviour of 16 dogs that had received shocks in the recent past (S-dogs) was compared with the behaviour of 15 control dogs that had received similar training but never had received shocks (C-dogs) in order to investigate possible effects of a longer duration... During free walking on the training grounds S-dogs showed ...more stress-related behaviours than C-dogs. During obedience training and during manwork (i.e.excercises with a would-be criminal) the same differences were found. Even a comparison between the behaviour of C-dogs with that of S-dogs during free walking and obedience exercises in a park showed similar differences. Differences between the two groups of dogs existed in spite of the fact that C-dogs also were trained in a fairly harsh way. A comparison between the behaviour during free walking with that during obedience exercises and manwork, showed that during training more stress signals were shown and ear positions were lower. The conclusions, therefore are,

- that being trained is stressful, that receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs, and

- that the S-dogs evidently have learned that the presence of their owner (or his commands) announces reception of shocks, even outside of the normal training context.

This suggests that the welfare of these shocked dogs is at stake, at least in the presence of their owner.

4.2. Is being shocked painful or just annoying?

Vocalisations are also indicative of pain ... especially the higher frequency squeals, yelps and barks. Biting attempts can be interpreted as pain-induced aggression ...

A characteristic, swift head movement sidewards and downwards often follows a shock as does a swift avoidance action. Both these reactions also indicate that reception of a shock is unpleasant. All in all these responses show that shocks elicit fear and pain responses. This means that shocks are not just a nuisance, but are really painful. ... receiving a shock may sometimes be perceived as a traumatic event by a dog. One of our study dogs still behaved as though it received shocks during protection work although the last shock was delivered 1.5 years before!

Although shocks may be painful, this does not imply that there is physical damage. A recent report on possible damage by the use of shock collars provides no evidence for physical damage and states that this is even unlikely (Klein, 2000).

4.3. Is the welfare of shocked dogs impaired?

... effects of the electric collar, at least when used in a harsh way, may be visible outside the training area. The most likely factor here is the presence of the handler. In spite of the fact that some 75% of handlers and trainers that were interviewed ... are of the opinion, that the dogs do not relate the presence of the handler with getting shocked, the dogs obviously do. Secondly, we have some evidence that getting an order, which previously was immediately followed by a shock or shocks, had obtained a negative connotation: for example one dog, shocked immediately after getting a “heel†command, yelped after getting the next “heel†commands without being shocked.

All this means, that when in presence of the handler, the dog has learned to expect something aversive... This is in spite of the fact that handlers of non-shocked dogs admitted that they use prong collars, and that their dogs experienced beatings and other harsh punishments, such as kicks or choke collar corrections.

4.5. Conclusions and recommendations

We concluded that shocks received during training are not only unpleasant but also painful and frightening. Furthermore, we found that shocked dogs are more stressful on the training grounds than controls, but also in a park. This implies, that whenever the handler is around, the dog seems to expect an aversive event to occur.

A second unwanted association might be that the dogs have learned to associate a specific command with getting a shock. Apart from the acute pain and fear, these expectations may influence the dog’s well being in the long term in a negative way. To counter misuse of the shock collar, it is proposed to ban its use for “sportsâ€Â, but save it for therapeutic applications, such as for suppressing hunting and killing sheep.

The effects we found occurred in spite of the fact that control dogs also underwent fairly harsh training regimes. Trainers and handlers should study learning theory far better .... They should incorporate more rewards during exercises...

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[BingBlaze n Skyla]

good read - added to rep - i like you - find shock collars to be a horrible device - whatever is wrong with positive reinforcement is beyond me

[siberian_wolf]

interesting read +1

I can't stand shock collars, just the word makes my skin crawl! I hate them, there are heaps and heaps of other training methods which can be used and don't cause these behaviour differences instead help the dog become happy, confident and content

[Removed #1]

My look at shock collars as a training aid for pets has always been hesitant. There's the risks of not being knowledgable enough to use it correctly and then I have my personal hang ups about them. The largest being that when they shut down alot of the mental institutions in the state and came back later to check on the progress of patients who'd previously recieved shock therapy it had been found that in the long term as soon as the negative reinforcer was removed as a possibile detourant for negative behavior 100% of the paitents who weren't given a means of internalizing behavioral change reverted to the previous socially unacceptable and sometimes dangerous behaviors eventually. My own experience in mental health care with people reaffirms this, and all in all it was a well written paper and an interesting read. +1, and thank you.

[Timbaboy]

Great post! I might have missed it in the thread but didn't see a particular brand of collar? And this sentance is wrote out as a conclusion

receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs

not to start an arguement, but surely this depends on the collars power/ level ?

For example an electric fence? If I touch mine at present it hurts , however if turned down on the box it simply sends a tingling sensation through my finger?

Like I said before excellent post just didn't see the truth in this "conclusion"

Thanks Ben

[Macdog]

Great post! I might have missed it in the thread but didn't see a particular brand of collar? And this sentance is wrote out as a conclusion

receiving shocks is a painful experience to dogs

not to start an arguement, but surely this depends on the collars power/ level ?

For example an electric fence? If I touch mine at present it hurts , however if turned down on the box it simply sends a tingling sensation through my finger?

Like I said before excellent post just didn't see the truth in this "conclusion"

Thanks Ben

Hi Ben:

I summarized 16 pages to one. In the full paper, you can see that they filmed the dogs and analyzed their actions to 31 behaviours (panting, squealing etc). They could tell if pain was induced even if it was too quick for the eye to catch.

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

i suppose even a 'tingaling feeling' could still be uncomfortable to a dog where as to us it would just feel weird but tolerable

[KSNS]

Hurt the dog or not i dont feel the need to use it and not sure i see why others feel the need to i know not every dog is the same and some take more effort than other but i don't uinderstand why some people cant do what 80% of others can do with out them. Thou they do have uses and seem to offer positive effects i personaly feel you can get the same results with good old hard work/ While not wanting to offend any users who do use these my personal opinion and it is only MY OPINION i speak for and no one else and not aimed at any one personaly I feel they are a lazy route. I like being able to have that feel good factor when you see hard work pay off as i said only my opinion

[Macdog]

i suppose even a 'tingaling feeling' could still be uncomfortable to a dog where as to us it would just feel weird but tolerable

I was looking at these collars yesterday in WALMART. ($139)

Anyhow, the little shocker box goes across the dog's throat.

I guess a quick tingle across the throat is a little more painful than the same thing across the finger.

But I don't intend to try it to find out.

[Karren]

Darn it was just going to recommend them to a friend for her children who are v. badly behaved. Oh and my husband came home late the other night so was going to stick his finger in the plug hole.

Yes I am against shock collars. Watched Caesar use one on one of his dogs to make it avoid snakes and I don't know that he was really impressed by it. Just can't think of any time I would use on a dog. Don't like them!

[Marc]

I have seen opinions on them on both sides of the fence, both with interesting ideas regarding them. However Im in the category of what Keath said about them above. Makes no difference to me whether they are right or wrong, I simply dont see the need for them. I have seen on here in the past 2 years dogs that have been extremely aggresive, ones that have been very badly treated in the past, ones that are disruptive and in most of these cases they have been sorted without the need for a shocl collar.

[Lil Miss Bump]

agreed marc-seeing hard work pay off is much more enjoyable than seeing a dog in pain :-(

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

agree with ya keath

[Kells xx]

totally agree with you there keath added to rep

[Tikaani&Aiyana]

Interesting read

I wish i could use them on my students when they are being little b*****s!!

Agree with Marc and Keath on this one

[siberian_wolf]

I have seen on here in the past 2 years dogs that have been extremely aggresive, and in most of these cases they have been sorted without the need for a shocl collar.

dont wanna sound vien but could Marley be included in that list?

I can definately say he used to be very aggressive towards other dogs and at th weekend and the camping trip before Marley was brilliant and was actually playing with other dogs. Im sure some members from this last weekend can say how Marley was. Malrey had no shock collar used on him

[Bec]

I've read this study before, but it is working the dogs on a high stim level which is not how modern e-collar training works.

Modern e-collar training is about working the dog on the lowest perceivable level. In some instances this is a level that the handler themselves can't even feel. The collar is not used as a punishment but as a method to get the dog's attention by using a subtle cue. It does not inflict pain, I have seen many dogs trained on e-collars and they are happy, well adjusted dogs who are highly reliable and eager to work. Do e-collars have the ability to inflict pain? Yes if used incorrectly, but it's not fair to lump their use in the same category.

Before people jump on me to disagree - I have no reason to be anything other than completely subjective. I don't own an e-collar, I have not used one on my dogs. Training dogs is a hobby and passion of mine and I spend hundreds of dollars a year going to workshops, seminars, learning from world experts. I try to look at every tool as subjectively as possible, I was hesitant about e-collars but after using one on myself, seeing them used on dozens of dogs, and learning how to use them properly, I can't honestly say they inflict pain or damage the dog/human relationship. The stim from an e-collar is one of the most gentle, least aversive sensations I've ever felt. They are in fact one of the least aversive tools out there and a very useful one when it's used correctly.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't really understand how anyone can form a solid opinion about any tool without a) having used it or b ) learning how it's used properly.

good read - added to rep - i like you - find shock collars to be a horrible device - whatever is wrong with positive reinforcement is beyond me

There is nothing wrong at all with PR, all my training is based in PR and all my dogs are trained on flat collars. But we all work outside the PR quadrant at some point - have you ever given a leash correction? A voice correction? Taken away a reward? used a non-pulling harness, head collar, check chain, martingale etc? None of those things are PR.

How many of us here microchip or desex their dogs? Both those things inflict more pain than low stim e-collar training.

Hurt the dog or not i dont feel the need to use it and not sure i see why others feel the need to i know not every dog is the same and some take more effort than other but i don't uinderstand why some people cant do what 80% of others can do with out them. Thou they do have uses and seem to offer positive effects i personaly feel you can get the same results with good old hard work/ While not wanting to offend any users who do use these my personal opinion and it is only MY OPINION i speak for and no one else and not aimed at any one personaly I feel they are a lazy route. I like being able to have that feel good factor when you see hard work pay off as i said only my opinion

Well, that depends what you use an e-collar for. What do 80% of people train their dogs to do that produces the same results as well used e-collar?

A good quality e-collar has a range of up to 800m, it gives you the ability to give your dog a cue when they are working at large distance from you. It also gives you the ability to get that little bit more reliability out of your dog after it's already been trained - can 80% of people train a dog to be 100% (or as near as) without an e-collar? E-collars are very useful tools, what's wrong with taking the "lazy" way if it produces the quickest, quality and most reliable outcome? Is training only ever 'good' if it takes a really long time? I always aim to use the best most efficient method to teach my dogs, this could be clicker training or training in drive or giving a correction.

Here is an article that summaries my thoughts on the subject;

www.k9pro.com.au/pages.php?pageid=110

On a side note - to me the ultimate lazy option are the people who don't train their dogs at all, or whose training is totally half-assed. Out of all the dog owners I come across, close to 80% of them would fit in that category.

I was looking at these collars yesterday in WALMART. ($139)

It's important to note that there are cheap and nasty e-collars out there just like with anything, the good quality ones will cost upwards of $500.

Anyhow, the little shocker box goes across the dog's throat.

I guess a quick tingle across the throat is a little more painful than the same thing across the finger.

As someone whose actually used one on myself, I'd have no qualms putting an e-collar on my neck.

But I don't intend to try it to find out.

Then how can you form the most subjective and informed opinion? Genuinely curious here. I wouldn't be able to say what an e-collar felt like if I had never been game enough to put one on myself. I was expecting it to hurt so imagine my surprise when I asked when they were going to press the button - and I'd already been stimmed on 10 different levels, I just couldn't feel any of them.

[Lil Miss Bump]

welcome back bec!

[Bec]

welcome back bec!

Bet you missed me hey I logged back on to have a read and saw the recall thread and wanted to give my two cents (naturally) and was going to leave it at that but you know me, I can't resist a training topic.

[Lil Miss Bump]

lol i just remembered this topic coming up last time!!!

always nice to read both sides of the story xxx

[Bec]

Yeah it's funny, I actually posted a few days ago in the recall thread, just in case you thought I'd only come back to post in here

[Lil Miss Bump]

lol it's nice to see you back hun!

[Macdog]

So Bec, by your reasoning if I've never taken drugs, my opinion on the use of drugs is worthless?

Just kidding, of course.

[Bec]

So Bec, by your reasoning if I've never taken drugs, my opinion on the use of drugs is worthless?

Just kidding, of course.

it's not the same thing Macdog and you know it. You can say the stim from an ecollar is painful as much as you want to, but I've actually put one on myself and can say for a fact that it isn't. My position on this topic is based on fact and experience, yours is based simply on what you think it feels like. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but unless you want to discuss the effectiveness of the tool and how it's used properly in training I don't have much else to say to you

[KSNS]

I can't help but feel you are only open to how you see it an not how others do which is ashame as you are a very clever person defo a credit to the site. A stern correction with tone of voice can have the same effect as the e-collar you seem so fast to defend if you feel it is good for you then by all means use it and give you're opinion but you cant say you are wrong etc when i have had dogs my whole life as well as more people than i care to count an had all amazingly well trained ones with no need of an ecollar ever

I feel they are lazy and only give people who do not know how to do things with out their aid another way train i don't see them as pointless for those that need them i see them pointles when for 1000's of years befor electricity was even found so to speak people were training there dogs to what is almost perfection. so why suddenly use a tool that was never needed befor i would say from what i have seen that they teach the same as a vocal comand or treat training.

Example sheep hearding dogs (Don't get excited sparks lol) trained from pupp to do what their ancestors did and i can honestly say i know of not 1 case where an ecollar is used i grew up around farms and know a lot of hearding dogs. There are sides to both arguments. I'm not disputing your's i just dont agree with it. I'm sure you will have some thing to say to this I think the only time we have ever agreed since my entire time on here is the recall thread lol

It's preference nothing else

My preference is they are not needed

You say you speak from experience with them i speak from experience with same results with out them