Very concerned.. Bella attacked her little brother

[JoAnne]

Biting/nipping to play is our biggest frustration with Bella. She is now 11 months old and since we got her at 5 months old I've been trying to teach her that the playful nipping isn't going to cut it. I do let her bite easy when we're just sitting around together, but the pinching really hurts!

So we've had her for six months now and "No Bite" works for a moment, until I turn my back. She likes to playfully nip at our old man Billy, a 12 lb terrier mix, and our cat. Of course, they want nothing to do with playing with this big thug. Poor girl.

When outside Bella can become very hyper and she'll try to nip at the back of our legs, or the legs of Billy. Ignoring her helps us, but poor Billy has to defend himself and he can become very angry towards her, barking and jumping at her. I have to call Bella off and give the "no bite". She used to bite at me in the air when I reprimanded her, but rarely does it now. We do walk a lot, play ball, and she has free rein when outside to chase chipmunks, etc. But of course she gets bored very easily and quickly.

My concern ... yesterday Bella was trying to nip at Billy and he was trying to stop her ...before I could call Bella off, she had him pinned on the ground on his back, face to face they were growling and biting at one another. It was not a friendly scene! Bella is quite larger than billy and I imagined the worst happening. I had to grab Bella by the back of her neck and above her tail and pull her off. She tried to jump at him again. Once I felt it was ok I let her go and she ran to him to be sure he was ok. She runs to him whenever he yelps for any reason (he steps on a pebble and will yelp). He has accepted her and they do wander off chipmunk hunting together, but he's not up for her pawing at him and nipping.

I've considered calling the humane society as they suggested if we had a problem, or finding her a new home w/out cats or small dogs because of the nipping at the other pets. We also have another cat that is 12 years old and the poor old guy now lives in the basement in fear of Bella. Fortunately he has a kitty door to go in and out. We feel it isn't fair to our pets who were here before Bella, but at the same time I couldn't imagine giving up on her. It doesn't seem fair to her either to have to live with these old fuddy duddies. Yesterday's pinning incident really had me upset. I know she just wanted to play and he was trying to tell her to leave him be. But she doesn't like to take no for an answer. When he became aggressive, so did she.

I'm home most of the time so I can monitor them together, and crate her when I leave. Will she ever learn that her behavior (going after the cats and little billy) is not appropriate? Or could it be so instinctual that we could possibly have a major problem on our hands if we keep her? It would break my heart to let her go, but I need to think about the safety and well being of my other pets as well.

Sorry so long, but wanted to get all info in there

Any input is appreciated cuz I'm not ready to give up!!

[HuskyCouture]

I really don't know hun, maybe contact a behaviorist? I hope someone else on here can be more help to you, sure there will be.

[proximity]

Biting/nipping to play is our biggest frustration with Bella. She is now 11 months old and since we got her at 5 months old I've been trying to teach her that the playful nipping isn't going to cut it. I do let her bite easy when we're just sitting around together, but the pinching really hurts!

Basically, given this paragraph, you're teaching her that its perfectly okay to bite one minute, and not the next, and she's having trouble working out where the line is as a result.

There is a good thread regarding bite inhibition that I recommend reading, as it is choc full of very good advice on the subject. I followed the information there, and stopped all biting within about a fortnight. IT will most likely take a bit longer for you, given that there is quite a bit of history to work through, but it should help. The key really is consistency

[skybird07]

Over the past 30 years in my home...the rule is quite simple. You, as the pooch (which for the most part have been multiple Huskies) are NEVER allowed to put your mouth on anything except your dog food. Now..."playtime" in the yard is an exception, but it's on 1/2 acre w/ my supervision, which is generally not necessary.

Other than that ...there is zero tolerance for biting, (nipping, as you refer to) or any of those '"in your face" games that challenge an older or infirmed dog, a kitty, or a stack of pancakes on my plate.

Draw a line like you would with a 2 yr. old child that bites everyone who upsets him/her...or bites someone everytime they want attention. You would not tolerate that, right?

Huskies are not dumb...but they can be very persistant.

One other thing of note that I've observed over 40 years with Siberians.. .they "grow up" around the age of 2 yrs. Actually become livable with. So try to contact some trainers in your area, get her out, get her moving around, give her something to look forward to, etc. She's bored, and she's making up her own games. She has NO idea these same games may lead to her being rehomed. Good luck.

[JoAnne]

Draw a line like you would with a 2 yr. old child that bites everyone who upsets him/her...or bites someone everytime they want attention. You would not tolerate that, right?

No I would not tolerate that. My only biting child learned really quick not to bite when I bit her back!

Information is so confusing. You read to teach them to bite softly.. so when she is relaxed and just wants my hand in her mouth, which isn't often, I figured that was ok. I didn't think I sent any mixed messages as that is sooooo different from her playful jumping and nipping. Hmmmmm

My main concern was the attack on our small dog and was looking for any input on that. If anyone had been through it and if the dog did eventually stop with the biting to play.

Rehoming her only has crossed my mind. Not seriously considering at this time as I know she is still a puppy.

Thank you for your replies

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

i used the loud AHAH with mine when she bites and she stops when she does put my hand in her mouth i say give kisses so she licks me instead - i dont mind her mouthing but ive made sure she knows not to bite - i think tho you need to make sure she know that even gentle mouthing at the minute is a no go - once she learns then you can loosen up abit with you only not the dogs - rly hope you get it sorted

(ive only mentioned my girl in this cuz my boys dont nip OR mouth)

[husky princess]

No I would not tolerate that. My only biting child learned really quick not to bite when I bit her back!

errrrrrr thats actually abusive but thats for another debate/forum

Yep totally agree your dog is confused and you need to have a no tolerance rule on biting/nipping etc

[Sqwidge]

errrrrrr thats actually abusive but thats for another debate/forum

Leave this topic alone - everyone has their own views on what to do with dogs/children - let's not start a debate on this.

I hope you manage to get it sorted, luckily our cat doesn't mind the nipping as it's all a game to her xx

[JoAnne]

Still no response about her attacking our small dog, but will leave it be.

I've NEVER abused my children! I sure didn't bite her hard enough to leave any marks and I know I'm not the only parent whose done that to end a child biting.. she wouldn't stop biting her baby sister! And it if was abusive, I imagine our doctor and daycare provider would've turned me in when I told them! No more about that.

I appreciate those replies with thoughtful and helpful input.

[skybird07]

Me again. Actually, after further thought, I typed up a lengthy response yesterday...but so much so...my computer quit when I hit the submit button.

I was worried I'd come off sounding like a know-it-all, so decided not to re-do.

I'll re-do w/ the understanding that I am NOT a know-it-all, ok?

I managed a boarding kennel for 20 years, have spent the same amount of time employed by a veterinarian, and of course have been involved in Sibes, training, running, etc for 40 years, so my observations...are just that. Observations.

"Pack" dynamics are a bit complicated. I feel you have several things going on here that are of great concern because when little dogs and big dogs mix....little dogs don't just end up injured...they may well end up dead. I've seen it more times than I care to recount. The difference between you and the owners of the dead little dogs...is you recognize you have a potentially devastating situation on your hands. That is going to hopefully save Billy's life and help you figure out if indeed Bella is capable of co-existing politely in your world. There is a chance she may not be capable, but right now you have a set of dynamics going on that are for lack of a better word....quite complicated.

Huskies and husky types...have strong "prey drive", and it's a no brainer that she needs to be reined in. I realize this isn't a case of prey-drive-gone-amok...but I am concerned about your kitties well-being too. So that's just a note...

Bella's at an age IMO, where she has decided the King (Billy) needs to be dethroned, and she wants to assume her rightful position on that throne...by herself. She's beginning to "test" him and losing tolerance for his corrections towards her at the same time.

Then you have Billy...terriers are tenacious, they tend not to back down...nature of the breed. Not to mention...it's HIS %#@&

THRONE (in his mind) and he's not going to concede it without a fight. A fight he will lose...and a fight she will lose, as she is then rehomed.

I strongly recommend you try to find a trainer who will come into your home and begin to observe and sort out the dynamics in a way that gives you the tools you need to steer Bella on the path of peaceful co-existence with her animal buddies.

Controls will have to be set, boundaries established, and some behaviours wll have to cease...for you and for the dogs.

I think this is beyond the scope of a simple Obedience Class...you are into dynamics now, and you need someone with an understanding of dynamics and the natures of both breeds.

If I may also note...sometimes peaceful coexistence does indeed mean that one dog is transitioned to a place of higher elevation in the group, so our instinct to constantly "back" the dog we perceive as being the "ruler"...can backfire in tragic ways.

You really need a professional if this stands any chance of working out. That's just my opinion and I wish you much luck.

[JoAnne]

There was some great information there Bernie. Sorry you had to type it twice!

Knowing that husky's have that strong prey drive is really what has me concerned with this current issue.

I will see if we have a local trainer in our area who visits the home.

Thanks a bunch!

[Arooroomom]

Remember she is still a young pup, at 11 months old ALL of my dogs we're quite obnoxious. I have a nice pack structure with my dogs and normally most issues like this (or any dog-behavior related issue) were taken care of by my older (but not senior citizen) dogs. Sometimes it helps to have a friend with an older dog who can put her in her place but not get nasty with her. Sometimes dogs need to be shown that something isn't acceptable by a dog who can actually fight back (not literally like a dog fight) but just an adult dog who won't tolerate her behavior and will let her know. Bella just sounds like a bossy obnoxious pup who's used to being able to overpower the dogs in her pack, and at 11 months old she certainly hasn't earned that spot.

I agree with not allowing any mouthing of any kind. Mishka was a horrible mouthing pup and she had scratches and bruises all up my arms when I got her at 5 months. Took me a good solid month of consistent AHAH and "No mouth" until she got it. Even when I get down and play with them I still don't allow the mouthing. They are a mouthy breed by nature and it's something that would only take 1 over dramatic person to make it into something serious and a potential problem. I'd try to find younger adult dogs that bella can play with on a regular basis to try and help curve her energy level as well as get her used to her place in a pack. Being consistent at home and not allowing her to nip and be pushy will all help in time.

[JoAnne]

Thanks Kristina. You have that right, Bella sure is bossy! But she's learning, slowly, that she is NOT the boss. She's quite stubborn.

It's been a few days since Bella pinned Billy to the ground and her biting at him to play has seemed to calm quite a bit. She seems to actually pay attention more when I tell her "no bite". Our old cat has made his way upstairs and with my being there, he and Bella have actually been close to one another without Bella being overly anxious to "taste" him. I've been using the "leave it" command since we got her and she is more apt to listen and not ignore my commands. Just seems to take her a lot longer than any other dog I've owned to be "obedient".

Bella does have older dogs to occasionally play with and I know the more she does this the better of we'll all be. These older and larger dogs are quick to put her in her place when she tries to bite at them. Yes, she is still full of puppiness ...and I'm remaining patient ...as she matures.

Having the support and encouragement here helps me to help her. Thanks a million!!

[Ian-&-Tuk]

Awesome thoughts Bernie +1

[Kroush]

For this case, you need to teach her biting is NEVER okay. AT ALL. Everything must be black and white. Dogs don't understand "it's okay to bite this hard, but not okay to bite THIS hard." Biting is biting to them. The only exception is if you teach the command "Gentle" in which they are trained to be very slow and very delicately take what you are holding. (treat/toy).

She is still a puppy and as such is very excitable as well as pushing her boundaries. Be consistent. Always say "No bite!" always punish for it. With Loki, if he gets excited he will get mouthy and I'll grab his muzzle shut (gently) stare him in the eyes and say "No Bite." very firmly. You need to let them know that you will NOT tolerate this behaviour at all. If she gets nippy, play time is over. Take her away and don't let her see them.

When Loki chases or nips at the cats, he gets a firm scolding and put into his time out cage until he calms down. If he does it again, the process is repeated. Repetition, consistency.

[madmally]

dogs playfighting and nipping each other is one thing as if it does get too much they will tell each other off which sounds like that has happened. But to get a pup out of nipping under no circumstances would i let a pup nip me gentle or otherwise. There is a big difference between me and a toy or other canine playmates.

Try introducing chew toys everytime she tries to nip you literally just yelp turn away but have chewy toys around which if you praise her for chewing them rather than you or her canine / feline companions. It will take time but with the training it should fall into place.