walking nicely

[Kells xx]

my dogs do not shut down in the slightest, mine are happy and full of beans they just walk a bit nicer.........

these are TRAINING AIDS and should be used as such and no one is saying that they are a quick fix, they help the dog learn not to pull and then you can alternate between head collar and normal collar.

not everyone has the luxury of all day to spend with their dog training it to perfection, some of us just do the best we can and still have good dogs at the end of it.

if a headcollar can turn a gsd from a freight train into a nice dog without pain then i will advise people to use one.

people wouldnt believe that echo was a rescue dog, they assume that i have had her from a pup and taught her to walk nicely

all you can do is try nix, we are all behind you and want to help.........

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

what im doing atm is giving him loadsa fuss when we put it on him loads ov good boys and sum high pitched excitedness in my voice and when we get near the last part ov our walk we slip the nose part off and he walks lovely (with lots ov praise) as time goes by we are gonna slip it off further and further away from where we do so he gets used 2 walking nicely and hopefully eventually he wont need it as time goes by - thats the plan anyway

[valkyries]

lol well i agree with kelly, Odin as a canny collar and i can walk him with it without it i can't walk him and in no way does Odin shut down lol, but he will walk with me it does not harm him or hurt him in any way at all.

[mbb23]

the Canni collar sounds like something to try. Good luck Nix x x x x x x x

[Bec]

how wud u suggest i could do this bec?? really need sum help lol - would love 2 not have 2 use the canny collar if i can help it

Unfortunately there is no easy way to instruct you over the net, as each dog is different. My point was more that dedicating 5-10 minutes a day for loose leash training can make a huge difference.

my dogs do not shut down in the slightest, mine are happy and full of beans they just walk a bit nicer.........

these are TRAINING AIDS and should be used as such and no one is saying that they are a quick fix, they help the dog learn not to pull and then you can alternate between head collar and normal collar.

They are a quick fix if all you do is chuck it on the dog, provide no training, and expect the dog to immediately walk on a loose leash.

To quote Andy;

Echo and Darwin will spend the first 5 minutes of the walk rubbing thier heads along the grass or rubbing against my legs.

So I would assume that your dogs do dislike the head collar and it does shut them down in some way, otherwise they wouldn't stop pulling.

not everyone has the luxury of all day to spend with their dog training it to perfection, some of us just do the best we can and still have good dogs at the end of it.

I work full time and I still manage to train my dogs every day, so I'm sorry, but the "I don't have time" excuse doesn't really cut it for me.

if a headcollar can turn a gsd from a freight train into a nice dog without pain then i will advise people to use one.

people wouldnt believe that echo was a rescue dog, they assume that i have had her from a pup and taught her to walk nicely

Let's not fool ourselves, head collars would not work if they weren't aversive to the dogs in some way. Head collars work because they ARE aversive, that is, they are unpleasant to the dog, that is how they work to stop the dog from pulling. Unfortunately unlike other tools (prongs, martingales etc) they can be aversive to the dog even when the dog isn't pulling, that is, they can be corrective/punishing the entire time the dog is wearing it. I'm not saying that applies to all dogs who wear head collars, but it does apply to a lot of them.

A good way to test how aversive your dog finds the head collar is to take it off. Does he visibly brighten? Does his body posture change? does the light return to his eyes? To borrow from dog trainer and behaviourist Suzanne Clothier, I'm not talking about the joy of simply being set free to run and play. I'm talking about the difference between the dog standing there on leash and collar but without the head halter vs. the dog wearing the head halter. If there is a difference, I think the aware trainer has to ask, "Then why am I doing this to this animal?"

what im doing atm is giving him loadsa fuss when we put it on him loads ov good boys and sum high pitched excitedness in my voice and when we get near the last part ov our walk we slip the nose part off and he walks lovely (with lots ov praise) as time goes by we are gonna slip it off further and further away from where we do so he gets used 2 walking nicely and hopefully eventually he wont need it as time goes by - thats the plan anyway

The people I know who use head collars start by just putting the nose strap on the dog and then taking it off and giving the dog lots of rewards (i.e. food). IMO, verbal praise alone is probably not enough if he is finding it that aversive and stressful. I don't know any one who has been able to really acclimatize their dog to wearing the head collar (note - that's JUST wearing it not walking on it, and getting the dog to willingly put their nose in it) in less than two weeks. Hence why I personally prefer other tools like prongs.

Of course some dogs are less bothered by head collars than others, there are just many reasons why I don't like them and prefer tools that communicate more clearly to the dog.

lol well i agree with kelly, Odin as a canny collar and i can walk him with it without it i can't walk him and in no way does Odin shut down lol, but he will walk with me it does not harm him or hurt him in any way at all.

Like I said above, head collars are aversive, otherwise they wouldn't work. That they are a gentle tool or a more positive tool than things like prongs or check chains is just marketing, they would not work if they didn't hurt the dogs or create unpleasantness in some way.

That's not to say they are always a bad tool to use, although I would never use one, I know dogs for whom they have worked well for a short amount of time.

the Canni collar sounds like something to try. Good luck Nix x x x x x x x

The reason I've given suggestions that don't involve head collars is because Nix is already using one and is not terribly happy with it

[Kells xx]

when echo's headcollar is off she behaves in the same way and so does koda. hence the 'my dogs dont shut down' bit

and we DO train our dogs on the normal collars. we have about an hour per dog each day of training. MY FATHER AND I ARE NOT LOOKING FOR A QUICK FIX.

at the end of the day I like headcollars and YOU like prong collars and tbh i and my dad will butt heads about this forever.

so i am saying it works on mine without physical OR mental problems.

i will continue to advise people to use one.

i am leaving this thread before i post something that i will regret.

sorry nix but i KNOW the headcollars work for me and linda so i would say persevere chick.x

[Bec]

when echo's headcollar is off she behaves in the same way and so does koda. hence the 'my dogs dont shut down' bit

and we DO train our dogs on the normal collars. we have about an hour per dog each day of training. MY FATHER AND I ARE NOT LOOKING FOR A QUICK FIX.

at the end of the day I like headcollars and YOU like prong collars and tbh i and my dad will butt heads about this forever.

so i am saying it works on mine without physical OR mental problems.

i will continue to advise people to use one.

i am leaving this thread before i post something that i will regret.

sorry nix but i KNOW the headcollars work for me and linda so i would say persevere chick.x

Please don't take my posts personally - I am NOT having a go at you or your dogs, I am talking about head collars in general and if you read my post, I said that some dogs are not as bothered by them as others and that they CAN be a valuable training tool under the right circumstances if used in the right way. And btw - I only mentioned prongs, as well as other training collars I posted about, as a comparison, I find they are better and more effective than head collars (GENERALLY speaking) but I wasn't advising Nix to go out and grab one immediately.

The only thing I will say about your dogs and what I would tell anyone who walks their dogs on head collars is that they must find head collars aversive on some level, otherwise they wouldn't work to stop them pulling. This is not a bad thing, but a fact you need to consider before you say head collars are painless etc.

Nix has asked for suggestions that do not involve head collars because she is already using one and is not happy with it, which suggests she'd like to hear suggestions other than "use a head collar", hence why I've posted some other ideas.

ETA: I feel I should add in case anyone is wondering I walk my dogs on flat collars or martingales in Micha's case (for safety as he can slip flat collars).

[Andy]

Bec.

LOL

I'm sorry but when you dissect a post line by line IT'S DIFFICULT NOT TO TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

Ok, Folks

I think everone has had enough information from both sides of the argument.

and can draw whatever conclusions they like, and can decide on a method of training which suits their lifestyle.

[Bec]

Bec.

LOL

I'm sorry but when you dissect a post line by line IT'S DIFFICULT NOT TO TAKE IT PERSONALLY.

That's just my posting style, I find it easier than replying to a block of text so it's clearer what I'm talking about - it's definitely not personal, in fact this is the first time I've ever heard anyone take it as such I was responding to the points Kelly made and talking about head collars and training methods in general, not her personally (how could I - I don't know her or your dogs ).

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

i cnt give him rewards like treats or toys as hes not rly food or toy driven when we get bk from walks i ALWAYS give them a treat - bing n skyla will eat them blaze turns his nose up at them

im gonna keep perseerverring (sp?) with the collar hes gettin better with it when its out now anyway so i think its just gonna take him a while 2 get used 2 it but he is gettin used 2 it

try not 2 fight on my thread guys lmao

[Kells xx]

i am a peace keeping ohm master sent from the planet calm lol

i just get a little narked sometimes im sowwwwwyyyyy

im glad blaze is getting better on the halti, have you tried stinky treats like tripe???? my dogs go crazy for it.

kelly

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

lols dont worry i know the feelin we all get narked sumtimes lol

ive tried everything after a while he goes off everything turned his nose up at sausages AND cheese the other day lol he seems 2 like fuss and attention tho lol

[Kells xx]

lol what food of yours does he like???? we use frankfurters sometimes yuk

but they respond anyway lmao

um maybe try a sound reinforcement like a clicker.

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

cnt use a clicker as bings is terrified ov noises like that - even ppl popping bubble gum turns him in2 a quivering wreck - hes rly fussy he doesnt eat much at all will have 2 try n find summin he does like - tho hes gone off his on food atm too my dogs r weird

[Yuki]

These are all good suggestions, it's unfortunate that they have to be trained together. It might be more difficult to do it that way, but even so, I don't think it's impossible. Good luck with it; if you're persistent, I'm sure it'll work out. c:

[Yuki]

These are all good suggestions, it's unfortunate that they have to be trained together. It might be more difficult to do it that way, but even so, I don't think it's impossible. Good luck with it; if you're persistent, I'm sure it'll work out. c: [Zoku's post]

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

thnx Zoku its actually not tooo bad now as my mum comes on walks with me and she takes skyla so i can concentrate on blaze even tho i am holding bingo - as bings doesnt pull

[siberian_wolf]

I have to agree with Zoko. It's a shame that you have a difficulty to train them on a one to one as this can make it a little easier for each dog to learn to focus on you. However, training them together can have it's advantages if you stay confident and consistent. Like when they are with their littermates, they can learn from watching each other. For example, when you ask them to sit and only one does it you give the positive reward to that one dog and not to the other/s, with luck the other will realise that when he puts his bottom on the floor, like the other, they will also get positive rewards from you.

Maybe you could work something out like this with your 3 especially if Bings doesnt pull on the lead

Best of luck hun xx

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

thnx amz hes deffo getting better - tho he was a nightmare at the meet up but thats 2 b expected rly he was around 30 other dogs lol