siberian_wolf Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Where I have moved to we have a horse, Poppy, accommodated in a paddock next to us which I pass daily when I walk my 3 boys and can see the paddock from our house. I have met the owner once in the month we have been here. My concern is that from what Ive seen the owner only appears to be coming down once a week to Poppy!!! The signs that im getting that from is once a week there is a load of hay left for her and her water bucket is filled. Every other day of the week, apart from the one day of the week, her water bucket is totally empty and I see no signs of him being down to her or see him about. Im worried for the horses welfare and have been to her with fresh clean water on occasions as I just can't pass her everyday knowing she has no water and leave it at that! Ive spoke to Jamie about it and he thinks I shouldn't be doing it and to just leave it but I find it impossible to do that! I don't know what I should do. Do I continue giving her water? Do I maybe write a letter to her owner and leave it on the gate? Do I report him? Do I listen to Jamie and leave it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 horse should have water all the time. i'd maybe offer to give the horse water if its not too much bother for you, but yer i'd tell the owner but try to be nice aobut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyka&Diva Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 they definatly need to be there more than once a week when i had my horse i was down there twice a day !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 how do the horses look condition wise? how is the field, is there enough grass and is there a lot of poop / weeds? are the horses feet overgrown or anything? in the summer i'd be concerend about flys bothering them and bot flys laying eggs in their coat. also the do need to have water 24/7 really. hay is a replacement for grass if theres not much grass avalaible, but if hes just keeping them there and not working them or anything its not unusual for them just to be left and checked on now and again, aslong as the horses are ok condition, have water, feet and teeth ok, field in ok condition, no fly or parasite problems they will be ok to be left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 how do the horses look condition wise? how is the field, is there enough grass and is there a lot of poop / weeds? are the horses feet overgrown or anything? in the summer i'd be concerend about flys bothering them and bot flys laying eggs in their coat. also the do need to have water 24/7 really. hay is a replacement for grass if theres not much grass avalaible, but if hes just keeping them there and not working them or anything its not unusual for them just to be left and checked on now and again, aslong as the horses are ok condition, have water, feet and teeth ok, field in ok condition, no fly or parasite problems they will be ok to be left. Also horses need to graze / eat hay almost 24/7 so if theres not enough hay or grass for them to do this, they will need more, their stomachs are made for constant grazing, not going long periods without food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 how do the horses look condition wise? how is the field, is there enough grass and is there a lot of poop / weeds? are the horses feet overgrown or anything? in the summer i'd be concerend about flys bothering them and bot flys laying eggs in their coat. also the do need to have water 24/7 really. hay is a replacement for grass if theres not much grass avalaible, but if hes just keeping them there and not working them or anything its not unusual for them just to be left and checked on now and again, aslong as the horses are ok condition, have water, feet and teeth ok, field in ok condition, no fly or parasite problems they will be ok to be left. She looks in good condition (Hooves look like they need some attention though, look a little over grown to me - but I aint a horse owner) She has plenty of grazing grass and shelter and the field does look tidy (apart from mole holes and a few weeds). I was wondering wether he was just popping down to check her, but my concern is that if he is just popping down, they how come she only seems to have her water filled up once a week? Ive tried contacting our land owner who own the paddock and lets it to the owner to see if he has a way of contacting they guy to let him know his horse has no water but nothing. I keep an eye out to see if I see him down with her so I can let him know but again nothing so if he is coming down its when its dark. Its the no water situation that is making me worried. Im thinking maybe a letter to him maybe the best way as I dont ever seem to see him around. Im happy to keep giving her water (Jamie aint though as its gonna increase the water bill) but I dont want to keep doing it and then they guy take it to advantage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Also horses need to graze / eat hay almost 24/7 so if theres not enough hay or grass for them to do this, they will need more, their stomachs are made for constant grazing, not going long periods without food. missed this part when i replied last! Although she appears to have plenty of grass to graze on, when she is without water she doesnt seem to graze either. My guess is that she is too thirsty to graze as when I give her a drink she goes straight back and grazes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 they definatly need to be there more than once a week when i had my horse i was down there twice a day !! Thats the same as my auntie who has horses, she goes down to hers AT LEAST twice a dayto make sure they are ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Where I have moved to we have a horse, Poppy, accommodated in a paddock next to us which I pass daily when I walk my 3 boys and can see the paddock from our house. I have met the owner once in the month we have been here. My concern is that from what Ive seen the owner only appears to be coming down once a week to Poppy!!! The signs that im getting that from is once a week there is a load of hay left for her and her water bucket is filled. Every other day of the week, apart from the one day of the week, her water bucket is totally empty and I see no signs of him being down to her or see him about. Im worried for the horses welfare and have been to her with fresh clean water on occasions as I just can't pass her everyday knowing she has no water and leave it at that! Ive spoke to Jamie about it and he thinks I shouldn't be doing it and to just leave it but I find it impossible to do that! I don't know what I should do. Do I continue giving her water? Do I maybe write a letter to her owner and leave it on the gate? Do I report him? Do I listen to Jamie and leave it? A simple test you can do to see if the horse is dehydrated is to pinch the skin on her neck and pull it out (don't worry, the skin is loose - you won't hurt her). The skin should return to smooth within 2 seconds. If the skin remains "tented" this can be a good indication of dehydration. It is not always accurate, but it is a good starting indicator. If she'll let you look at her gums, pale pink-white gums are also a good indicator of dehydration (although if you aren't sure what healthy gums look like this might not help), , and you can do the same capillary response test on the gums that you would on human skin - press a finger to the gums and they will go white - longer refill time to pink indicates dehydration. I am also curious to know what the rest of the horse's condition is. What do her feet look like (you can even post pictures here if you aren't sure if they are properly trimmed or not)? Can you see ribs (not always indicative of poor condition, but a good place to start!)? How much hay is she being given? Horses need to consume about 2-2.5% of their body weight in hay/grass per day, so for the average horse that's 20-25lbs of hay. Many people offer free-choice hay, which means providing a large amount of hay for the horse to eat as it pleases. Once that is gone they give more. More commonly, paddocked horses are fed twice a day - 10lbs in the morning and 10lbs in the evening. For water, a horse should ideally have access to at least 10 gallons of water per day - typical consumption can be as little as 4 but up to 10 gallons depending on temperature, activity, humidity, etc (to put it in perspective, each gulp a horse takes is about 1 cup of water!). So if the horse is only getting a 1 or 2 gallon pail every few days it is highly likely the horse is dehydrated! When you bring her water, is she eager to drink it? Does she down the entire bucket in one go right in front of you? If she isn't showing significant interest in the water, she is probably getting refilled more regularly than you realize. Does the horse have a shelter? The problem with you providing her water is that because of our laws, if the horse is being provided its needs (regardless of by whom) if becomes difficult - if not impossible - to prosecute the owner. The way I see it, you have a choice. Either talk to the owner and try to have an honest conversation with him about your concerns, or just play it safe and call animal control to investigate. Personally, I would suggest you express your concerns to him first. If he is a responsible horse owner, he will explain to you when and what he feeds and when he provides water and assuage your concerns. If he tells you to mind your goddamned business, well, I'd be on the phone to animal control before I got to the end of the driveway. My brother-in-law had animal control called on him not once, but twice. He had a dead-lame horse in his pasture for months and someone finally reported it. When animal control arrived he explained to them that he is a farrier, and got this injured horse from a friend who was selling it for meat. He has been making special shoes for this horse to try to correct the issue and there has been improvement. The horse was otherwise healthy and animal control was satisfied there was no neglect. A month or two later they received another complaint about the same horse. This time animal control asked if the horse had been taken to the vet, to which my brother-in-law admitted that no, it hadn't. My family has enough experience with injuries that everyone involved did not think a vet's opinion would be anything more than a waste of money, but he agreed to take the horse to the vet. The discussion involved minor variation in the treatment program - mostly the vet was satisfied with the treatments being given. Animal control was satisfied to the point where they insisted on paying the (clearly unnecessary) vet bill. In the end, the horse couldn't recover and had to be put down, but at least lived out its last days in relative comfort. So I only provide that as an example that things are not always as the appear. Talking to the owner should be the first step, along with careful monitoring and documentation of when and how long you notice the water empty or the horse without hay (while not ideal, anywhere up to 12 hours is common and acceptable so long as the meals are a sufficient size). If the horse's feet are grossly neglected, that alone is reason enough to call a humane society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 missed this part when i replied last! Although she appears to have plenty of grass to graze on, when she is without water she doesnt seem to graze either. My guess is that she is too thirsty to graze as when I give her a drink she goes straight back and grazes If there is lots of grass for her to eat I wouldn't be as concerned about the hay drop-offs - they are likely just giving her that to ensure she has enough and/or doesn't overgraze the field too quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 maybe get a pic of her hooves see if any1 can tell if they are overgrown id keep an eye on her water n check its nice n clean everyday n maybe speak about her nicely to the owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 A simple test you can do to see if the horse is dehydrated is to pinch the skin on her neck and pull it out (don't worry, the skin is loose - you won't hurt her). The skin should return to smooth within 2 seconds. If the skin remains "tented" this can be a good indication of dehydration. It is not always accurate, but it is a good starting indicator. If she'll let you look at her gums, pale pink-white gums are also a good indicator of dehydration (although if you aren't sure what healthy gums look like this might not help), , and you can do the same capillary response test on the gums that you would on human skin - press a finger to the gums and they will go white - longer refill time to pink indicates dehydration. Although she comes down to me, she seems nervous about being touched so I can't check if she is dehydrated. I am also curious to know what the rest of the horse's condition is. What do her feet look like (you can even post pictures here if you aren't sure if they are properly trimmed or not)? Can you see ribs (not always indicative of poor condition, but a good place to start!)? How much hay is she being given? Horses need to consume about 2-2.5% of their body weight in hay/grass per day, so for the average horse that's 20-25lbs of hay. Many people offer free-choice hay, which means providing a large amount of hay for the horse to eat as it pleases. Once that is gone they give more. More commonly, paddocked horses are fed twice a day - 10lbs in the morning and 10lbs in the evening. I can try and get photos of her hooves when Im off work Monday, it will be too dark when Im about today and tomorrow. I can't see her ribs but she does have a thick winter coat at the moment which is rather dirty with mud. She is left a good bale or so of hay each week so Im not concerned that she isn't getting enough graze food as the field is plentyful of grass aswell. As I don't see him around Im assuming she isnt fed a specific horse diet twice a day although there is a food bucket in the fiel also which is empty. For water, a horse should ideally have access to at least 10 gallons of water per day - typical consumption can be as little as 4 but up to 10 gallons depending on temperature, activity, humidity, etc (to put it in perspective, each gulp a horse takes is about 1 cup of water!). So if the horse is only getting a 1 or 2 gallon pail every few days it is highly likely the horse is dehydrated! When you bring her water, is she eager to drink it? Does she down the entire bucket in one go right in front of you? If she isn't showing significant interest in the water, she is probably getting refilled more regularly than you realize. Yes she gulps it down as I try to put it into her water bucket! After several gallons she then goes away and I then fill her water bucket halfway which aint 10 gallons but its about as much as my arms will take carrying to and from the house before giving up working! I would do it every day but Jamie has a go as he is worried on the increase in water we will be using and it costing us a fortune we dont have so atm its just once a week about halfway through the week from when I last saw signs that her owner was down. The hardest part is walking past everyday knowing she doesnt have any water!!! Does the horse have a shelter? yes she does have shelter The problem with you providing her water is that because of our laws, if the horse is being provided its needs (regardless of by whom) if becomes difficult - if not impossible - to prosecute the owner. The way I see it, you have a choice. Either talk to the owner and try to have an honest conversation with him about your concerns, or just play it safe and call animal control to investigate. Personally, I would suggest you express your concerns to him first. If he is a responsible horse owner, he will explain to you when and what he feeds and when he provides water and assuage your concerns. If he tells you to mind your goddamned business, well, I'd be on the phone to animal control before I got to the end of the driveway. My brother-in-law had animal control called on him not once, but twice. He had a dead-lame horse in his pasture for months and someone finally reported it. When animal control arrived he explained to them that he is a farrier, and got this injured horse from a friend who was selling it for meat. He has been making special shoes for this horse to try to correct the issue and there has been improvement. The horse was otherwise healthy and animal control was satisfied there was no neglect. A month or two later they received another complaint about the same horse. This time animal control asked if the horse had been taken to the vet, to which my brother-in-law admitted that no, it hadn't. My family has enough experience with injuries that everyone involved did not think a vet's opinion would be anything more than a waste of money, but he agreed to take the horse to the vet. The discussion involved minor variation in the treatment program - mostly the vet was satisfied with the treatments being given. Animal control was satisfied to the point where they insisted on paying the (clearly unnecessary) vet bill. In the end, the horse couldn't recover and had to be put down, but at least lived out its last days in relative comfort. So I only provide that as an example that things are not always as the appear. Talking to the owner should be the first step, along with careful monitoring and documentation of when and how long you notice the water empty or the horse without hay (while not ideal, anywhere up to 12 hours is common and acceptable so long as the meals are a sufficient size). If the horse's feet are grossly neglected, that alone is reason enough to call a humane society. Im thinking contacting the owner would be the best bet too, I do keep an eye open for him about but never see him so I may type up a letter to him and just mention about the water situation that has got me worried as he may have a fair reason why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Good stuff. Please let us know how it goes! The fact that the horse eagerly drinks the water when you bring it definitely implies that she isn't getting near enough. If nothing comes of your note in a few short days don't hesitate to call a humane society. It would also be helpful if when you go by every day take note of the time and amount of water. If empty, note whether it is bone dry or looks recently emptied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dale&chayla Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here are rules for owning any animal. Gets food Gets water Has shelter Owner check on it Does not say how often it has to be and how often needs to be water, food or being checked on. As long as the horse looks healthy and no reason for concerns animal control or humane society can not do anything. Unless horse looks starved, beaten, abused or has any infections. You can try to write the owner a letter but other then that there is nothing you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here are rules for owning any animal. Gets food Gets water Has shelter Owner check on it Does not say how often it has to be and how often needs to be water, food or being checked on. As long as the horse looks healthy and no reason for concerns animal control or humane society can not do anything. Unless horse looks starved, beaten, abused or has any infections. You can try to write the owner a letter but other then that there is nothing you can do. Dehydration is abuse. If the horse as adequate food, shelter and care, but is in a constant state of dehydration from having insufficient access to water - it's abuse through neglect. Any animal can be otherwise well cared for, but if a person doesn't get proper veterinary attention for anything from worms to injury - that is also abuse through neglect. You're right in that there is a minimum expectation of care, but sufficient water is a must, and if this horse is only getting her bucket filled once a week she is definitely being denied water, and that IS something that a humane society or animal control will do something about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenamarie Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 If the horse is getting insufficient water she'll be more likely to colic. Is there any water source on the property other than the bucket? I can't imagine a horse going a full six days without water without some serious health issues cropping up. That the horse is still walking makes me wonder if she's getting water from another source. If not I'd call animal welfare ASAP. Water is one of those gotta-have-all-the-time things for any animal, especially horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronoiiel Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 This may be a dumb question but I was wondering how much moisture a horse gets from grazing? I know it's not enough to replace being watered not exactly the point of the question lol it's just a random thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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