Need Advice - Please Help

[Morgan]

Hi I'm a new member and really need some advice.

I have an 18 month old Sibe who escaped from the garden in March. The Dog Warden returned her a week and a half later but since then her behaviour has got progressively worse. She keeps snapping for my hand if I try to go near her collar and she has now started to ignore my commands completely. Walks have become a nightmare and a complete battle of wills. I really dont know what to do anymore. Over the past few months I have tried everything I can think of as I was determined not to give up on her, but I really dont know what to do anymore. I'm starting to think she may be a lost cause with me as she has gained dominance. I've thought about rehoming but I'm worried about her snapping and maybe eventually biting someone else?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Bec]

Hi I'm a new member and really need some advice.

I have an 18 month old Sibe who escaped from the garden in March. The Dog Warden returned her a week and a half later but since then her behaviour has got progressively worse. She keeps snapping for my hand if I try to go near her collar and she has now started to ignore my commands completely. Walks have become a nightmare and a complete battle of wills. I really dont know what to do anymore. Over the past few months I have tried everything I can think of as I was determined not to give up on her, but I really dont know what to do anymore. I'm starting to think she may be a lost cause with me as she has gained dominance. I've thought about rehoming but I'm worried about her snapping and maybe eventually biting someone else?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

First of all - welcome to the forum!

Whereabouts are you located? I think you are at a point where you really need a professional trainer/behaviourist to come in and assess the situation.

If it is a case of her taking control and thinking she is the dominant one there is no reason why this behaviour cannot be fixed. I highly doubt that this stemmed from when she escaped from the yard, but rather is something that has developed over time as she has learnt to push the boundaries and found that she can 'win' with undesirable behaviour. Sibes are a breed who will push the boundaries and take control if you let them. They need a firm and consistent leader. Often, we think we are doing everything right but it takes someone with experience to come in and show us where we are going wrong.

[Sarah]

Hi, welcome to the pack

I agree with Smeagle, (added to rep) they are such little buggers and will get away with anything that they can lol

What is she like with commands, sit, stay etc does she do these for you or does she stick her nose in the air and walk away? You need to ensure you're the pack leader, not her. Don't feel sorry for her having been away for a week, dogs live in the moment and she won't be thinking back to when she was away from you, she will just pick up on how you feel and act accordingly

Don't give up with her, you've joined here asking for help and that shows you want to do all you can, don't despair, you will work through it

[Val (Zebedee)]

Hi, Morgan,

welcome on board - & by the sounds of it, to being owned by a husky! lol

Bec & Sarah are right (rep added, guys) - you obviously care deeply for your furball enough to come on a new-to-you forum & ask for help, thumbs up for that! Is she food driven? Does she sit, etc for a titbit or biscuit?

Where are you located?

[mbb23]

Hey ya,

Welcome to the site!! sorry not really sure on this one so aint got any advice but I think everyone has already given good advice (added to Reps)

[Morgan]

Hi Guys

Thank you so much for responding!

It is great to hear that perhaps the situation can be sorted out! I've been so worried that it has reached a point of no return. The thing that worries me most is the snapping. I dont know how to get round that at all.

SMEAGLE - I admit that she is forever pushing the boundaries (I expected nothing less from a Sibe lol) but perhaps the rot may have set in when she came back after escaping, I did feel so sorry for her (she probably saw this as a complete sign of weakness). Also my boyfriend is living here now... would this have confused matters for her? She did used to listen to his commands but has also started ignoring him aswell as myself. I'm located in Birmingham, UK, and have considered consulting a behaviourist, if I was better off financially I would have one here in a moments notice, but I'm struggling at the moment. I am due to start some part time work in a couple of weeks but am worried that her behaviour may deteriorate further when I am away more in the day. It seems to be a vicious circle.

SARAH & ZEBEDEE - She will do sit, lie down, give paw, go to her bed etc for treats. She is very food motivated lol! I guess my main concern is the snapping, and also trying to get her to walk better. As it stands I find it a nightmare to walk her, as does my boyfriend, and therefore my 14 year old daughter is instantly excluded! She cannot manage her at all. It's a real shame because she used to walk so well. As I say it is a complete battle of wills now, which is exhausting because she is soo strong now.

I had thought about her being led my a stronger male dog who could be "pack leader", but have my doubts. My friend has a German Shepherd cross and they used to play fine. But now she bullies him. She runs in to him constantly and nearly knocks him over, and then he started copying her bad behaviour and ignoring commands when he is with her. He is a very obedient dog who had never before ignored commands!

[Bec]

Hi Guys

Thank you so much for responding!

It is great to hear that perhaps the situation can be sorted out! I've been so worried that it has reached a point of no return. The thing that worries me most is the snapping. I dont know how to get round that at all.

Which is why IMO you need a professional to come in and assess her so you can understand what the problem is and how to fix it. We can give you some suggestions but without seeing her we will have no real idea what is driving the behaviour and therefore, any advice we give you is only ever going to be based on guess work.

SMEAGLE - I admit that she is forever pushing the boundaries (I expected nothing less from a Sibe lol) but perhaps the rot may have set in when she came back after escaping, I did feel so sorry for her (she probably saw this as a complete sign of weakness). Also my boyfriend is living here now... would this have confused matters for her? She did used to listen to his commands but has also started ignoring him aswell as myself. I'm located in Birmingham, UK, and have considered consulting a behaviourist, if I was better off financially I would have one here in a moments notice, but I'm struggling at the moment. I am due to start some part time work in a couple of weeks but am worried that her behaviour may deteriorate further when I am away more in the day. It seems to be a vicious circle.

I'd say that part of the problem is that when she came back you started feeling sorry for her and perhaps gave into her and spoilt her a bit? And let her get away with behaviour that you normally would not? And now that behaviour has become a habit because she's learnt she can use it to "win".

I would definitely prioritise getting a behaviourist in. I can tell you want to change her behaviour. I would be concerned about the snapping too, because it can get worse if it is not managed properly, but it is hardly the worst behaviour I've seen (or in this case, heard about) so I have no doubt that if you are put on the right track, and you put the effort and commitment in to fixing her behaviour, you will have no problems over coming it.

I had thought about her being led my a stronger male dog who could be "pack leader", but have my doubts. My friend has a German Shepherd cross and they used to play fine. But now she bullies him. She runs in to him constantly and nearly knocks him over, and then he started copying her bad behaviour and ignoring commands when he is with her. He is a very obedient dog who had never before ignored commands!

Wouldn't make a difference IMO - her problem is with you, and bringing another dog into the pack won't change that. YOU need to be the pack leader.

I would start by having a read of this article, print it out and stick it on your fridge or somewhere that means you will see it and keep it in your mind. I would follow it to the letter, giving her consistent rules and boundaries is a good place to start.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

When she snaps, what exactly happens before to make her snap? Is it only at certain times? Is she sensitive about her neck being touched?

[siberian_wolf]

Hello, welcome to the pack

Looking at your post it sounds a little similar to what Im going through with my 3 boys. Marley is aggressive with other dogs and last night Bandit tried to bite my hand. I have contacted a behaviourist in my local area who also owns sibes which was a great bonus. I had a chat with her last night and she seems to know what she is on about and said that by what I had described to her it sounded like a dominance issue with my boys and they are currently going through the 'terrible teen' stage which doesnt help as they are more challenging to us. Im still waiting to see what everyone else in our house thinks so I can book in for her to come and help us become pack leaders again and regain control of the pack

If you want a read here is my thread about it all, may help you out somehow - http://www.husky-owners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3679

What area are you from?

[Jo Dawson]

Hi and welcome to the site, my advise would be to get professional help like the others have said, i will give you some advise though as it definately worked for me with Nova when she tested the boundaries.

Go right back to basics, i no it will be difficult but this is what you will have to do, When feeding her there is a practice called Gesture eating,, prepare her food, get something for yourself, make her sit and watch you (make sure you pretend this part or it could cause you to throw up! lol) take some food out of her bowl and eat it, then feed her, when you get up in the morning and throughout the day copmpletely ignore her when she comes to you, no touch, no talking, no eye contact, only address her if she's done something bad. after a few day's she will start to act differently, keep up with the gesture eating and try and get the whole house involved, honestly i know it sounds weird but it does work.

I cant advise you strongly enough though that you are definately going to need professional help, seek out a reputable trainer as there are some people out there who claim to be trainers but they are not, look for credentials, ask questions and what methods they use and if you come accross a trainer who say's that they use e-collars, pronged collars or anything designed to give the dog any pain then run for the hills! Find someone who can help you with non confrontational and natural methods.

I hope that this helps you. Take care, Jo.Xxx

[Bec]

...and if you come accross a trainer who say's that they use e-collars, pronged collars or anything designed to give the dog any pain then run for the hills!

Or perhaps they are trainers who use a wide range of methods and tools and know how to use prongs and e-collars safely and with great results Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I know many reputable and wonderful behaviourists and trainers who would have no problems using prongs or e-collars (and neither would I if they were the best tool for my dog) - it's a common misconception that both tools are used harshly or to administer pain to the dog. I've had both an e-collar and a prong collar on my arm and I guarantee you, having been taught how to use them at training workshops and seen dogs worked on them, that if they are used properly they do not cause the dog pain. Used properly, they are also not a 'confrontational' tool.

I'd probably stay clear of any trainer who without meeting my dog instantly recommended a prong or e-collar or head collar or check chain or any tool, because a tool alone is not a solution for a behaviourial problem nor is one tool suitable for all dogs. BUT - just because a trainer or behaviourists may have these tools in their (theoretical) toolbox, does not mean that they are their only tools either

Apologies for taking this thread a bit off topic, but I'd hate for someone to run from a trainer who is as reputable and knowledgeable as the ones I know purely because they've assumed because they have a particular tool in their toolbox that they use confrontational or painful methods to train dogs.

It goes without saying that no trainer should ever put a tool on your dog or use a method that you are uncomfortable with. However, I'm still yet to meet someone who, once they've been shown how to use an e-collar (and felt what the 'stim' feels like), still thinks its cruel or painful

[jules dief taz tor]

hey we live in stafford , just down the road from you , we could meet ap n have a chat if you want , i have 3 furmonsters lol, we walk at sandwell valley , do you know it ????

[Morgan]

SMEAGLE - Thanks for the article! Top priority now will be to get a behaviourist. When she snaps its not that she is sensitive about her neck - when she is being petted she lets us rub her neck, under her chin and her chest (she even lets us rub her paws). She tends to snap when she has been told to do something and has refused and I reach for her collar. eg. a couple of weeks ago she wouldn't get down off the sofa. I told her numerous times and she ignored me. I reached for her collar and she snapped. Whenever she has snapped it has been in a similar context.

SIBERIAN WOLF - Thanks for the link to your thread. It's reassuring to know I am not on my own. Keyser is 18 months old so also an adolescent. My heart goes out to you, but hopefully we will both come through this and have our lovely dogs back to their old selves. By the way, I'm in Birmingham.

JO DAWSON - Thanks for the suggestion of Gesture eating and going right back to basics. Can't believe I hadnt thought of it before. It makes sense to start again from scratch. I shall start with that whilst trying to sort out a behaviourist.

Thank you so much everyone! I know its going to be a long road and it will take time and hard work, but its reassuring to know that this can hopefully all be rectified.

If anyone knows of a good behviourist in the Birmingham area I would be extremely grateful if you could let me know. Would much rather enlist the help of someone on recommendation.

[jules dief taz tor]

urm hello ..............................

[Bec]

SMEAGLE - Thanks for the article! Top priority now will be to get a behaviourist. When she snaps its not that she is sensitive about her neck - when she is being petted she lets us rub her neck, under her chin and her chest (she even lets us rub her paws). She tends to snap when she has been told to do something and has refused and I reach for her collar. eg. a couple of weeks ago she wouldn't get down off the sofa. I told her numerous times and she ignored me. I reached for her collar and she snapped. Whenever she has snapped it has been in a similar context.

Ah, I definitely know what you mean now.

I had a similar problem with my bitch who is very stubborn and head strong. She went through a stage where she constantly challenged me and would jump on the lounge and refuse to get down, it got to the stage that if I tried to physically move her off she would growl at me.

Someone advised me to scruff her and growl back at her, unfortunately this made her behaviour worse as she took me up on the challenge and snapped at me!

Instead I decided to try something that was non-confrontational, as confronting her only made her more defensive.

I taught her the 'off' command. I'd get a nice treat when I wanted her off the lounge and started off by luring her off the lounge with the treat. I also made sure I had an alternative for her, so I got her a crate that she could sit in instead (you could use a mat or her bedding). Once she was solid with the luring I added the off command. I also taught her 'in your crate' so I can now say either 'off' or 'in your crate' and both work to get her off the lounge. It took very little time before she realised that obeying me meant that she would get a reward and she quickly learnt what 'off' meant.

That was some time ago now and I can now shift her off the lounge, or pick her up and move her, with zero aggression, growling, snappiness or resistance from her. She gets off when I tell her to get off and I don't need to reward her with more than a pat.

You also want to try not to repeat yourself because you risk having a dog that learns they can ignore your commands.

[Morgan]

Hi! Sorry!

Never used a forum before would you believe! Somehow I managed to navigate away from the page DUH! Lol!

Yes I know Sandwell Valley! :-) It would be absolutely brilliant to meet up. Thank you!

[Morgan]

DIEFUNBAKER, TAZ & TORI - Do you go to Sandwell Valley everyday? Would love to arrange to meet up. I don't know anyone else wih a Sibe so it would be great to talk to someone who understands that they are just not like other breeds. :-)

SMEAGLE - Good to hear that the snapping can be fixed, with bribery lol. Thankfully she does love her treats. I think if I start with the gesture eating and couple that with training her to respon to "off" I might get somewhere.

[Bec]

SMEAGLE - Good to hear that the snapping can be fixed, with bribery lol. Thankfully she does love her treats. I think if I start with the gesture eating and couple that with training her to respon to "off" I might get somewhere.

I chose not to look at it as bribery if you're teaching something new

When you have a dog whose already started to resort to snapping you want to find a way to handle them that's not only effective but safe for you. I have no doubt that if I had kept confronting Daisy that her snapping would have escalated, instead teaching her what I wanted made all the difference.

It must have been a good 18 months to two years ago now, and I never need to use treats to get her off the lounge anymore. She does it when I tell her to

[Morgan]

SMEAGLE - You are so right. I do believe that confronting her when she snaps will only make matters worse. Tempting her with treats is a much better way. Eventually she will hopefully learn! I do worry sometimes though, that, given she is sooo intelligent, that its all a game to her to get more treats and that she is manipulating me!

[Jo Dawson]

Or perhaps they are trainers who use a wide range of methods and tools and know how to use prongs and e-collars safely and with great results Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I know many reputable and wonderful behaviourists and trainers who would have no problems using prongs or e-collars (and neither would I if they were the best tool for my dog) - it's a common misconception that both tools are used harshly or to administer pain to the dog. I've had both an e-collar and a prong collar on my arm and I guarantee you, having been taught how to use them at training workshops and seen dogs worked on them, that if they are used properly they do not cause the dog pain. Used properly, they are also not a 'confrontational' tool.

I'd probably stay clear of any trainer who without meeting my dog instantly recommended a prong or e-collar or head collar or check chain or any tool, because a tool alone is not a solution for a behaviourial problem nor is one tool suitable for all dogs. BUT - just because a trainer or behaviourists may have these tools in their (theoretical) toolbox, does not mean that they are their only tools either

Apologies for taking this thread a bit off topic, but I'd hate for someone to run from a trainer who is as reputable and knowledgeable as the ones I know purely because they've assumed because they have a particular tool in their toolbox that they use confrontational or painful methods to train dogs.

It goes without saying that no trainer should ever put a tool on your dog or use a method that you are uncomfortable with. However, I'm still yet to meet someone who, once they've been shown how to use an e-collar (and felt what the 'stim' feels like), still thinks its cruel or painful

Hi, well not to start an argument because i raelly dont want to do that at all, i think all of you on here are great and would really love to get to know you all, but i'd have to agree to disagree if you know what i mean. I do not believe in having to use electricity, prongs or any other item like that to get the desired behavour out of a dog. you have your opinions and i have mine but lets face it if we all agreed the world would be very boring! lol

Jo.Xxx

[Morgan]

Do you have any advice regarding her constantly trying to chew my hand. I tell her "no" and she stops for a minute but then does it again. I tend to just move my hand away and ignore her but it hasnt stopped her doing it.

[Bec]

SMEAGLE - You are so right. I do believe that confronting her when she snaps will only make matters worse. Tempting her with treats is a much better way. Eventually she will hopefully learn! I do worry sometimes though, that, given she is sooo intelligent, that its all a game to her to get more treats and that she is manipulating me!

As long as you are using the food when you are teaching her or wanting to mark or develop a desirable behaviour you will be fine. You can phase the treats out once she has learnt the command. As the pack leader food is a resource you control and treats are something she has to earn.

[Bec]

SMEAGLE - You are so right. I do believe that confronting her when she snaps will only make matters worse. Tempting her with treats is a much better way. Eventually she will hopefully learn! I do worry sometimes though, that, given she is sooo intelligent, that its all a game to her to get more treats and that she is manipulating me!

As long as you are using the food when you are teaching her or wanting to mark or develop a desirable behaviour you will be fine. You can phase the treats out once she has learnt the command. As the pack leader food is a resource you control and treats are something she has to earn.

[Bec]

Jo - no worries, we all do what we are comfortable with. I personally have no problems with aversives, if used properly. I just hate when there are misconceptions out there about how certain tools or methods work I totally agree that there is no single 'right' way to train

[Austinville]

My apologies for the delay in welcoming you....somehow I missed this thread.

Welcome!

[Sarah]

Do you have any advice regarding her constantly trying to chew my hand. I tell her "no" and she stops for a minute but then does it again. I tend to just move my hand away and ignore her but it hasnt stopped her doing it.

Try pushing your hand back in her mouth that way it makes it uncomfortable (not painful i must add) and she will back away and realise that it does no good doing that