jules dief taz tor Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 weve had haltis for the boys for a while, but since ive been using the walking belt i havent used them , have decided to try and get some loose lead training done, so back to the haltis, only dief snaped his today so we went to the pet shop and brought a canny collar, so then walked dief with canny collar and taz with halti , have to say , cant really see much difference in the effect, both seem to work equally well, does anybody else here use either halti or canny collar, n if so what are your thoughts ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberianandy Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 we don't use anything for suka as he is quite good on lead anyway just a normal collar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 the boys r great when they r on there own, but put them together and its a different storey, and to walk the 3 of them one at a time would take forever lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 I considered getting a halti for Gizmo when he went through his fase of pulling EVERYWHERE!!!!!!! I put a post on here about them ages ago and learnt from Bec (smeagle) that the haltis are based on the design of a horses head collar which was designed to help the handler control the horse via the head and not cause discomfort to the nerves in the horses head. The dogs neves are located/placed differenly to that of a horses and so the halti's can cause discomfort to the dog so it can force the dog to walk on a loose lead or cause them to constantly try and get it off. This is usually why people can have their dog walk on a loose lead with a halti but as soon as the halti comes off they will again start to pull, especially when the dog hasn't recieved the correct training with the halti. At the end of the day the Halti is a training tool and only actually works as it should when the correct training method it used. For that reason I didn't get the halti. Never tried a canny collar either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 oh not tried either of them, are they both the same shape / style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 nope canny collar is a collar with a nose band attatched , and hooks on to the lead in a normal way , halti is attatched under the chin , i dont just attatch the halti and let them try to pull, and correct them , i do lots of stop and sit , to get them to look at me and listen to what im saying , then half way through the walk i unattatch the lead from the halti and attatch it to the collar, whilst leaving the nose band on , so the halti in effect isnt working and they continue to walk nicely , they are not bouncing around , having there noses squashed , and nerves pressed and they dont rub there faces on the floor to try to get them off either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://www.companyofanimals.co.uk/halti.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://www.cannyco.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Teaching loose leash walking is more in your training technique than it is in the tool, IMO. Dogs can learn to pull on any tool, including head collars, check chains and even prong collars. Head collars aren't the type of tool you use to give corrections, because they apply the pressure themselves. You should never give the dog a correction on a head collar (i.e. pop the leash or pull on it) - not saying you do that Dief just thought I'd mention it in case anyone here used them like that. I taught Mish to walk on a loose leash using a martingale collar, more for safety than anything else because flat collars can slip over his head. The collar on it's own would never have stopped him from pulling, but when used properly gave me a bit more control and was useful in conjunction with the training program I was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 tbh its having something on there nose that seems to do it for my too, it goes on and they just dont pull, like you said becks the headcollars correcting when the dog pulls , you dont have to do much else, im just trying to teach them to walk on collar and lead , and that its ok to pull in the harness, and if i have to stick something on there noses to achieve this , i will, i would rather do this than have them pulling me from pillar to post when we r out together, like i said they r great when walked seperatly, but this is not always practicle, and its not just about loose lead either id like to get some form of heel work going on tried the martingale, and they just tried to choke them selves to death , wasnt very pretty, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 tbh its having something on there nose that seems to do it for my too, it goes on and they just dont pull, like you said becks the headcollars correcting when the dog pulls , you dont have to do much else, im just trying to teach them to walk on collar and lead , and that its ok to pull in the harness, and if i have to stick something on there noses to achieve this , i will, i would rather do this than have them pulling me from pillar to post when we r out together, like i said they r great when walked seperatly, but this is not always practicle, and its not just about loose lead either id like to get some form of heel work going on Ah ok - teaching formal heelwork is very different to teaching loose leash walking and it's something you can do without a correctional collar. Actually, I start teaching heel work with no collar or leash at all. I definitely wouldn't teach heelwork with a head collar, heel is a position and it requires the dog's focus on you the entire time. And it is something you will need to do with them individually to begin with. To give you an example, this is a (rather terrible but it will give you an idea lol) video of me practicing heelwork with Daisy. Ignore my terrible footwork, but it will give you an example of heelwork that requires no collar or leash. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8DJ2mFWNh8[/ame] We can be on a walk and Daisy will be walking on a loose leash - she might be a meter or so ahead of me, or she might have her nose to the ground as beagles typically do - and I can say "Daisy, heel" and she will fall into the correct heel position, 110% attention on me. That's the main difference for me between 'loose leash walking' and teaching the heel position. tried the martingale, and they just tried to choke them selves to death , wasnt very pretty, Like I said - it's much more about HOW you teach than it is about the tool you use. I don't like to let the tool to do the work for me, because I like to be the one in charge of correcting the dog. I don't like to chuck a tool on and hope it works, I like to use the tool to help me communicate with the dog. Because head collars are always putting some degree of pressure on the dog's nose, they are often continually aversive, even when the dog isn't pulling - a correctional collar like a prong will only put pressure on when you put pressure on the leash. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but it's a trap that many people who use head collars fall into and that's why they have a problem if they ever have to take the head collar off as the dog hasn't really learnt anything and reverts back to pulling. ETA: I know I do come across as being very anti-head collars and generally speaking I'm not a fan (there is no other training tool that carries such a high risk of injury even when it's used correctly). I usually say something when threads pop up not because I dislike them so much but because they are recommended so often without people hearing the downsides or cautions you should take when using them. I largely worry about how often they are used incorrectly as they are readily available to buy without much or any instruction on their proper use, or how they are used in the place of actual training. From a training perspective I would never rule out head collars for all dogs (and they are incredibly over used!) as there are some dogs on which they work as they are supposed to. However, the majority of dogs find them quite aversive even when they are used properly, which is why it's important to know how to chose a tool that is appropriate for your dog, it's temperament, and your situation. Part of this is understanding how the tool works. And part of it is understanding that no tool should be used in the place of training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 unfortunatly i dont have a lot of room in house and the back garden slopes a fair bit and is full of 2 foot holes at the min so the only place i can do anything is on walks , i am aiming for more productive walks , so loose lead when there is space and to heal when needed ie in a crowded area , so for me the headcollar is working at the minute , will keep on with it , while the boys r ok im ok , trying to work with tori b4 she learns there bad habbits and everybody is entitled to there own opinions , always feel free to share, i do listen sometimes , but sometimes what i mean to say or what im trying to get across come out sounding wrong , i am still struggling to find a trainer, who doesnt charge more than our average earnings per week lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISDW Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I used the haltis, but the dogs hated them and managed to get them off no problem. I also used a different type of headcollar, the Dogmatic, I prefer them, they're a slightly different design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 unfortunatly i dont have a lot of room in house and the back garden slopes a fair bit and is full of 2 foot holes at the min so the only place i can do anything is on walks , i am aiming for more productive walks , so loose lead when there is space and to heal when needed ie in a crowded area , so for me the headcollar is working at the minute , will keep on with it , while the boys r ok im ok , trying to work with tori b4 she learns there bad habbits and everybody is entitled to there own opinions , always feel free to share, i do listen sometimes , but sometimes what i mean to say or what im trying to get across come out sounding wrong , i am still struggling to find a trainer, who doesnt charge more than our average earnings per week lol Be very cautious about putting a head collar on a pup - generally they should not be used on any dog under six months. I know it will sound high and mighty, but if we teach our dogs proper manners as pups we won't need to put them on any correctional tool. If only I knew what I know now, back when Daisy was a pup, I could have saved myself a lot of training to get her to walk nicely on a leash when she was bigger and stronger! Have you ever thought about walking them one on one to do some training with them? Or walking them to the local park, putting two on a tie out and working with them one after the other? The heel position is pretty easy to teach but you need to do it with them individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 im not using anything on the pup. just trying to get her to walk nicely , only using collar and lead, i do walk the boys seperatly for one of thei walks, but their big walk i prefer to do together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 im not using anything on the pup. just trying to get her to walk nicely , only using collar and lead, i do walk the boys seperatly for one of thei walks, but their big walk i prefer to do together Good to hear! Ah gotcha now... if you want to teach formal heelwork let me know and I can give you some basic info, maybe you can try starting some basics on their individual walks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskyluv Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Interesting thread. I was hoping you'd actually get someone else to post who has experience with both b/c I'm wondering the same thing. Which is "better"? I have a halti only for rare occasions when I must have absolute control, I think I've only used it 2 or 3 times on my sibe ever. I trained mine not to pull in harness and have no problem. I had heard on another forum that a couple people found the canny collar more effective than the halti, but it was just their word and I've not had experience with the canny collar, nor do I plan to get one but I am just curious. I am actually glad to hear someone say that they don't find one more effective than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Looking at the picture of the canny collar it looks a lot like the Blackdog Infin8 head collar that we have over here (we don't have the canny collar) as it attaches to the back of the dog's neck instead of under the chin. The Blackdog head collar actually has a martingale as the collar so you can wean the dog off the head collar by eventually removing the strap and just having the collar part. There are so many different types of head collars and they all fit differently and have different designs. Because each dog has a different head shape and structure, different types head collars will fit differently on each dog - how well it fits impacts on how well it works and also how safe it is for the dog. When it comes to Siberians I'm not certain which type of head collar would work best with their skull shape and would fit them best - although it would depend on the individual dog as some Siberians have bigger muzzles than others. I don't think there would be one 'type' that is better than the other simply because it depends so much on what fits the dog in question the best. How well the head collar fits is crucial to how well it works (although sometimes you do get dogs who have been properly trained and fitted on head collars who still find them consistently uncomfortable and aversive, which just means that's not the right tool for that dog). It's also important to remember that no matter the brand of head collar you should always have a second collar on the dog as a safety precaution because the head collars came come apart and some dogs can get loose from them - I learnt this the hard way many years ago when I used a head collar on Micha, not only could he slip the head collar off on more than one occasion the snap came apart when we were walking. Very scary to have your dog suddenly loose and running free along the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 right after a fair few more walks the halti is working better for taz , not sure why, i dont actually attatch the lead to it , like i said b4 its just the strap over his nose, and for dief the canny works better, which does go to show it is down to the individual dog, and i totaly agree with becs we use another collar at the same time, and we actually attatch the halti and headcollar to the halti/canny collar. so if the slip the halti/canny they are still attatched to the lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyn Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Only used the cani-collar, and then only for taking dogs across showgrounds. Liked the fact that the collar acts as backup if they slip the nose loop. That said, we dont show much now, and they are hung up unused. Keep going to list them for sale as only used them twice. Both mediums if anyones interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkyries Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 i can't walk my boy Odin without his halti on he pulls to much always as done but as soon as the halti is on i get control i dont have to put the lead onto it as jules says with her's its just haveing some thing over his nose i dont think he realizes its not attached. Topaz i dont need to with her i can walk her without. but i just got my new walking belt so im going to try that with him with and without the halti so i'll see whats best for him xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Only used the cani-collar, and then only for taking dogs across showgrounds. Liked the fact that the collar acts as backup if they slip the nose loop. That said, we dont show much now, and they are hung up unused. Keep going to list them for sale as only used them twice. Both mediums if anyones interested? Lyn - think they'd fit my boys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules dief taz tor Posted July 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 my canni collar came in sizes , taz and dief need a size 4 , measure their necks and check the size they need on the link i posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskyluv Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 which does go to show it is down to the individual dog Makes total sense, I think how the different collars will work will depend on the dog...like so many things. lol Thanks for the update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibe77 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Grey goes out with a Harness and he pulls like mad, after a while my arm from the elbow area feels like its going to come away, anyway i took him out last night for his last walk and could not be arsed putting his harness on so just put his old Collar on and i had the best walk ever with him! he did not pull once! as soon as he felt the lead kind of tense he slowed down and walked next to me. Grey cowers and trys to dodge the Harness when i try to put it on, but Something else i noticed last night was Grey sat there tail wagging and looked so happy when i got the collar out and he let me put it on no probs..... Could it be the Harness hurts him thats why he dont like it or is he just being a fussy git? once its on he is fine just pulls like mad..... Could The Canny Collar be the answer?? think i might have to get one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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