When to spey?

[Chezell]

OK, Skye will be 7 months old next week and after all that I have read here and elsewhere have decided to have her done!!!

As much as puppies would be cute, I think the most responsible thing to do is to sort this out.

My question is when?

Do I wait for her to have a season or is it best to have it done as soon as..

[raindog]

Personally, I wouldn't have a bitch speyed or a dog neutered until it was fully grown - in other words, at least a year old. I know there are different views on this, and in the US, some vets recommend neutering before pups go to their owners at 8 weeks. The scientific evidence is inconclusive, so I guess it is really down to personal choice.

Mick

[Sarah]

First of all, well done you on deciding to have her neutered

I've read different opinions on this and am sure you'll get varying replies

From what i've read, i've found that different vets have different policies on this, some won't spay before the 1st season, some will. Have you spoke to your vet do you know what their policy is?

One worrying post i read somewhere said that their gsd was leaking urine because her vulva wasn't fully mature before the operation......she was put on hormone tablets for life to control this as she was spayed before her first season, by the sounds of it she was about 5/6 months old.

I've never had a bitch so I can't even go off my own experience, just what i've read

[Chezell]

My man took her to the vets today for a weigh in and worming tab's, they told him to have it done before her first season else we would have to wait untill 3 months after and that could lead to a small possibility of growths in her womb (I think) as I wasn't there I can't be sure, an he's down the pub so probably won't remember LOL

By the way she weighs about 17 kgs is this big or small for a husky of 7 months

[Alex T]

One worrying post i read somewhere said that their gsd was leaking urine because her vulva wasn't fully mature before the operation......she was put on hormone tablets for life to control this as she was spayed before her first season, by the sounds of it she was about 5/6 months old.

My moms sharpei x dog de bordaue (spelling) was speyed prior to her first season as recomended by the vet and now has to take the hormone tablets to control her "accidents".

[CanadianWolf]

from what i have read and all the vets around here have told me its best to have it done at 6 months for us its the same time we register the pets with the city

[siberianandy]

when we had a puppy of the dogs trust they insisted she was spayed at 6 months she hadn't had a season and was fine for the short time we had her after this i think it all depends on the individual dog.

and i'm also interested in this as we are going to have suka done mind you he is a male so not sure if that makes a difference

[Sarah]

My man took her to the vets today for a weigh in and worming tab's, they told him to have it done before her first season else we would have to wait untill 3 months after and that could lead to a small possibility of growths in her womb (I think) as I wasn't there I can't be sure, an he's down the pub so probably won't remember LOL

By the way she weighs about 17 kgs is this big or small for a husky of 7 months

she sounds a good weight for her age i wouldn't worry

My moms sharpei x dog de bordaue (spelling) was speyed prior to her first season as recomended by the vet and now has to take the hormone tablets to control her "accidents".

awwwww sorry to hear that Alex

[Alex T]

Just to add - we are going to Isis speyed at some point, but as we use the same vets as my parents (which is the best) in our area - im not too sure as when to get her done!

[raindog]

I've just come across a newish policy statement from the American Veterinary Medical Association regarding the practice of speying/neutering immature dogs:

The policy statement points to the seriously increased incidence of health problems in dogs who have been speyed/neutered before maturity. The report's conclusions are:

potential health problems associated with spaying and neutering have also been identified, including an increased risk of prostatic cancer in males; increased risks of bone cancer and hip dysplasia in large-breed dogs associated with sterilization before maturity; and increased incidences of obesity, diabetes, urinary tract infections, urinary incontinence, and hypothyroidism.

Research based on a study of over 1,000,000 dogs carried out between 1964 and 2003 was put together by Linda Witouski, TheDogPress Legislative Editor, who compiled this 2008 summary report:

In a study of well over a million dogs, information on breed, sex, and age was collected and reported to the Veterinary Medical Database between 1964 and 2003. ResultsCastrated male dogs were significantly more likely than other dogs to have hip dysplasia (CHD) than other dogs and spayed females were significantly more likely to have cranial cruciate ligament deficiency (CCLD).

Dogs up to 4 years old were significantly more likely to have

HD

whereas dogs over 4 years old were significantly more likely to have CCLD. In general, large- and giant-breed dogs were more likely than other dogs to have

HD

, CCLD, or both.

Prevalence of

HD

and CCLD increased significantly over the 4 decades for which data were examined. There was no data reflecting the decade-by-decade increase but one might suspect that the significantly increased rate of spay and castration procedures may be a factor in the overall forty-year increase. ref: June 15, 2008 Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association

There is unquestioned benefit to spay and castration but it may be a human benefit rather than of any tangible benefit to the canine..

http://www.thedogplace.org/Articles/DogCare/Bad-Medicine/09051-Spay-Neuter_Andrews.asp

Mick

[sammie]

Thanks for that info Mick, added to rep.

That study is quite a frightening thought, i don't want to make any of my pets suffer as a result of a convenience thing on our part...I thought it would be responsible to neuter Suka, but now i am thinking about this a lot more, and wondering if i would like to roll the dice with his long term health.

I think Andy and I are going to have to sit down and have a really long talk about it, we have been there with HD and i am pretty sure we don't wanna go through it all again.

What does everyone else think? Is it going to be impossible for me to keep Suka away from a potential female pack member? We really would love a female.

[Sarah]

Hmmmm, I was under the impression that it was beneficial to the digs health to have them neutered but after reading that i'm now having second thoughts as well

[Malamute]

Remember though this is only one report. I'm sure you could find literally dozens of reports offering varying advice. I have absolutely no experience except our previous dog, castrated at 7 months, died of aggressive cancer at 5 1/2.

I have considered having Blizzy done but keep asking myself if it is not just a convenience thing for the owner rather than the dog? After all, how many of us owners would agree to be 'done'?

[Sarah]

Hmmm one thing that's just cropped into my mind is that they aren't done in the wild

Sorry to hear about your previous dog Ian

[raindog]

Remember though this is only one report. I'm sure you could find literally dozens of reports offering varying advice.

But this "one" report was based on clinical evidence of over 1,000,000 dogs over a 40 year period. Most studies are based on much more flimsy evidence.

Mick

[Bec]

I tend to agree that we get our dogs desexed as a convenience for us. Pet owners don't need to own entire dogs or unspeyed bitches that go into heat regularly and many don't want the responsibility that goes along with owning entire dogs.

I can also understand it from a breeders point of view, and a rescue's point of view, especially after an awful case we had here a couple of years ago when a reputable breeder's dog was rehomed by his owner, undesexed (and unbeknown to the breeder), and ended up in the hand's of a puppy farmer. He was rescued eventually but the photos of his condition break your heart. He barely managed to survive. You can read about Leo's Story here:

http://www.leostory.org/index.html

The woman who bred him now sells every pup and dog she rehomes to non-show/breeding homes as desexed. I don't blame her. Some breeders don't feel like they can fully trust their puppy buyers to do the right thing. Every reputable rescue here, including the RSPCA, sells puppies and kittens (as well as adult dogs and cats) desexed. I can't blame them, either, when you work in rescue and you see the results of indiscriminate and irresponsible breeding.

I don't judge breeders who chose to sell pups desexed, although personally with any dog I have in the future if given the choice I will wait until they are at least 12 months of age before desexing. Most vets here recommend you desex at 5-6 months of age.

[Malamute]

But this "one" report was based on clinical evidence of over 1,000,000 dogs over a 40 year period. Most studies are based on much more flimsy evidence.

Mick

And I bet the same clinical report COULD be read to show that hip dysplacia (spell check please Mark!!) has increased dramatically in the same period etc etc etc.

Sarah made a good point though about wild dogs.

Reminds of a government report that stated more accidents were caused by drivers on mobile phones than drink driving.

This is probably true but in reality the number of drivers using mobile phones at the time was massively greater than those drink driving.

Hence the report, though accurate in one respect, was very misleading in reality and just written to favour one opinion.

[Grindys]

Sounds an ok piece of research Mick but my concerns relating to the validity of this, are that this just concentrates on the cons of spaying/castrating. It does not highlight the pros for spaying & risk factors of not spaying.

I qualified as a Veterinary nurse in 1985 and the current trend in the UK at that time and even when I last vet nursed, were to encourage spaying around the 6 month of age (albeit > side of 6 months) stage or preferrably prior to the first season. Reasoning for this was that the older the bitches get and the more seasons the bitch has in fact heightens other risk factors that are not discussed in the piece of research you present. Such risk factors are:

1. Increased risk of Pyometra

2. Increased risk of mammory gland tumours

3. Increased risk of Ovarian tumours and similar

4. Increased risk of complications when soaying as the womb becomes more enlarged through age/seasons

5. Of course the obvious chance of miscalliance......

(These of course increase with age & seasons)

My own feelings are that it's still in the bitches best interest to spay at the younger end of the scale

[Sarah]

Sounds an ok piece of research Mick but my concerns relating to the validity of this, are that this just concentrates on the cons of spaying/castrating. It does not highlight the pros for spaying & risk factors of not spaying.

I qualified as a Veterinary nurse in 1985 and the current trend in the UK at that time and even when I last vet nursed, were to encourage spaying around the 6 month of age (albeit > side of 6 months) stage or preferrably prior to the first season. Reasoning for this was that the older the bitches get and the more seasons the bitch has in fact heightens other risk factors that are not discussed in the piece of research you present. Such risk factors are:

1. Increased risk of Pyometra

2. Increased risk of mammory gland tumours

3. Increased risk of Ovarian tumours and similar

4. Increased risk of complications when soaying as the womb becomes more enlarged through age/seasons

5. Of course the obvious chance of miscalliance......

(These of course increase with age & seasons)

My own feelings are that it's still in the bitches best interest to spay at the younger end of the scale

I know this thread is mainly about neutering the Bitch but what about the dog?

[Grindys]

I know this thread is mainly about neutering the Bitch but what about the dog?

As far as I remember the vet profession in the UK did not encourage the practice of castrating dogs before the age of 18 months unless for a medical reason. This is part of the reason that owners are encouraged to wait with monorchid boys, testicles can still descend at & past 18 months of age, although the chances decrease as they mature, therefore thought foolish to jump in at a younger age. Of course with undescended testicles there is an increased risk of the testicle turning cancerous and therefore it is always advised to castrate and remove the undescended one.

In boys there is a higher risk of castation affecting the dogs character, dogs quite often lose that edge that sets them apart and therefore this is always something to think about prior to castrating. The vet that I worked for (and the practice in general) did not encourage routine castration of dogs unless there was an underlying reason ie. monorchidism, aggression issues etc. As far as I am aware many UK practices still stick to this ruling, although I do understand that the welfare societies/rescues do castrate as routine.

I would be intersted to hear what the practice for castration is in other countries?

[Sarah]

Thanks for that Lyn, Kimba turned 1 in April and both his testicles have descended he very laid back and not aggressive in the slightest so I may hang fire on having him castrated at least I know there's no rush

[Bec]

Grindys, our vets tend to have a general 'six month' rule regardless of the sex of the animal - dog or bitch, we are told six months for both.

I prefer to wait at least 12 months for both but then again I prefer to desex the bitch before her first season (unless there are behaviourial or developmental problems in which case I will wait).

Of course the RSPCA etc desex pups at eight to ten weeks.

[Sarah]

8 - 10 weeks!!!!!!!!!!! noooooooo

[Bec]

8 - 10 weeks!!!!!!!!!!! noooooooo

It's what rescues do here, no reputable rescue would rehome an undesexed dog (even the RSPCA won't!) and that includes puppies.

I can totally understand why they do it when you consider how many unwanted dogs they euthanise each week.

ETA: Like I said in my other post, some breeders sell all their pet puppies desexed, and I can understand that too, especially when you consider cases like Leo's where he ended up in a puppy farm and was barely alive when he was rescued. It wouldn't be my choice but I don't judge them for it because I understand why they do it.

[siberianandy]

in the uk it is also practice of shelters to neuter dogs but with puppies they make you sign a contract to get the puppie neutered once it is 6 months old and they cover the cost.