Homemade Food??

[Kish07]

Hello

 

ive asked this previously and was advise raw food but I’m not going to do that. What I would like to ask is if I make fresh food is the below ok? 
 

1 cup cooked white rice

2 pounds cooked lean ground beef

1 cup cooked peas and carrots

additives - fish oil

[wolfpup]

Home cooked food is the second best way to feed  - so you will get no argument from me.

However there are a few problems with your prospective menu.

Peas and carrots are both high starch vegetables  - your dog would do far better if you gave the following:-

Broccolli, spinach, kale, brussel sprouts, cabbage, even cauliflower.   Please ensure that any veg you give your dog has been pureed  or very finely minced  - dogs do not chew their food - but the bits of vegetables need to be as small as you can get them in order for your dog to get the goodness out of the vegetable.   If you feed either peas (whole) or carrots (chunks)  you will see them deposited on the ground the next day almost the same as they went in.

Rice is pure starch  - nothing else.    Dogs have evolved to eat around 4% starch in its diet naturally  -  any more than that amount of starch in its diet will cause its pancreas to work overtime  (much harder than it should).  The following will be of help to you.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/can-dogs-eat-rice/

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/video/why-rice-is-a-dangerous-dog-food-ingredient/

Fish oil is unsustainable  - staple fish  like mendhaven (the main fish other fish eat) is now getting very scarce because they are used in making of fish oil.  In addition fish oil goes rancid very easily and quickly  (it is one of my main arguments against kibble).     

I would cook any meat minimally.     In addition add fresh fish that still contains its organs  (i.e. not filleted)  twice a week,  dark leafy green vegetables  - around 5% of the diet,  offal  (liver a maximum of 10% of the diet) if you can get them:-  kidneys, ovaries, testes, spleen, pancreas, brain and eyes etc.

[Kish07]

Hey @wolfpup. Thanks for responding. I will immediately take out the peas and carrots. The peas were whole and the carrots diced very small but I will start using broccoli and cauliflower.

 

my vet advised to feed her kibble but I think that’s because it’s the most common way to feed your dog but not the best.

 

if I use ground beef and omit the rice and add the above mentioned veggies what vitamins and minerals am I deficient in? I was told I need omega oils and other vitamins.

[wolfpup]

What is your dog's weight?   I cannot do any food calculations without knowing the weight of the dog, in order to calculate the weight of the food to be eaten in a day.

Most vets believe we do not have the intelligence to work out what our dogs should be eating.        The secret is to give the dog variety.    Beef, lamb, chicken etc  as many different meats as you can  plus fresh whole fish.     By giving a herring, mackerel or sardine  - you are giving your dog all the organs and therefore all the nutrients found in those organs  - plus the most natural form of the essential oils.    Out of the three fish mentioned above,  mackerel gives the most nutrition  - but the other two are no slouches either.

 

[Kish07]

As of yesterday she is 29.8 pounds and she turned 20 weeks yesterday as well.

[wolfpup]

Fish_mackerel_Atlantic_raw	50
Beef_ground_90%_lean_meat___10%_fat_raw	400
Egg_whole_raw_fresh
Lamb_variety_meats_and_by-products_liver_raw	50
Lamb_variety_meats_and_by-products_kidneys_raw	30
Seeds_hemp_seed_hulled	10
Blueberries_raw	10
Broccoli_raw	40

Give an egg  twice a week  - either just the yolk  (where 95% of the goodness is)  or  whisked up with the white (either is fine)  MUST be raw  not cooked.     The fish must also be raw  -  I have used mackerel as it contains slightly more nutrients than either sardines or herrings.   This also MUST be raw in order to keep the EPA and DHA intact.

The figures are grams.    This represents one whole day's food for your dog's current weight and will be enough until your pup reaches around 30lbs.

The above menu is slightly low on Vitamin E  and EPA/DHA  -  you can up the fish portion (up to 100g  or even 130g  - i.e. a whole fish)   You can buy a concentrated vegan (algal oil) Omega-3 & astaxanthin  capsule on Amazon  - which contains 600mg of EPA and DHA  -  I use this for my dogs and myself  - I give each dog half a capsule  once a week (stick a pin in and drip the contents onto their food)    The company is called Igennus.

Foods highest in Vitamin E are:- 

Fish_salmon_Atlantic_farmed_raw

Dandelion_greens_raw

Fish_trout_rainbow_farmed_raw

Spinach_raw

However you can also buy organic vitamin E drops on Amazon  - you only need one drop a d

If you ever feed your dog poultry  - ANY sort of poultry  do NOT give him the hemp seeds.  You can buy organic shelled hemp seeds on Amazon  - you only need around 200g at a time as you only have to add 2 teaspoons a day.    You would be amazed at just how much nutrition is in hemp seeds - including EPA and DHA

Apart from Vit E, EPA & DHA  the above menu covers ALL your dog's nutrient requirements  -  I know you said you would give broccolli as a veg which is why I used it in my calculations, however if you can get raw spinach -  it has additional nutrients that broccolli does not  -  but broccolli is a superb veg to give.

Please vary your dog's menu  - say one food for  a week  and then change the protein to another meat.   Dog's get bored with the same food day in day out  -  and the best way to ensure complete nutrition is to give a varied menu.

There is one glaring  'error'  in the above menu   -  there is no calcium in it and your pup needs calcium  really badly whilst he is going through his massive growth spurt  (and will still need it for the rest of his life).    If he is not currently eating bones as part of his meals -  he MUST have a calcium supplement.      There is a company called  Keizebrink that does a raw food supplement  containing all 42 of the nutrients I have to check for when producing a menu for clients.

https://www.kiezebrink.co.uk/category/205-raw-meat-supplements      One pot is for dogs fed bones  and one with added calcium for those not fed bones.    It is a 'fail-safe'  for when your dog is on a different menu  -  one pot should last a minimum of 12 months.        One thing to note is that you could not order this online as their system cannot cope - it deals mainly with raw foods  - so you may need to ring them.

 

 

[Kish07]

Thanks but I’m not able to do raw meat. I thought you were sending a diet plan based on cooked meats

[wolfpup]

I never said to do raw meat for this meal plan  - I just asked you to cook it lightly in a previous post.     The fish and vegetables should be raw however - to gain the maximum nutrition and to retain the EPA/DHA in the fish.   My nutritional calculator is for dogs - hence it only works nutrition out on a raw basis - (dogs never learned to cook).

At the end of the day its up to you  -   the above is a well calculated meal plan  -  you can do what you want with it  - or work out your own from scratch as you will have to with any other meat you wish to use.

[Kish07]

Apologies as it shows raw then amount in grams so I assumed you meant feed her the mix raw. I will use the above mentioned recipe slightly cooked so you still see red (medium rare I guess) with an egg totally raw put on top or mixed in.

[Denarj35]

My cuz bought a 7wk old puppy the first thing they told her is puppy chow.  Hell no! What do you suggest along with treats so she can train the puppy. Thanks! Also, after reading the above will they work for a sharpei pit mix 6yrs old and overweight along with a 14yr old male pit? Thank you!

[wolfpup]

Hi,   First of all the pup should still be with mum at 7 weeks.   Are you asking me for a complete meal plan for a 7 week old puppy  or  more nutritious treats? 

If it is a meal plan (and a minimum of 2 plans is required),  what is the breed, weight, of the pup,  what has it been fed on previously, what are they prepared to do for the new pup in their life with regards to food preparation.   Can they/are they prepared to spend the time/effort/money  to feed their new family member the best food there is (raw) by preparing it themselves, or do they want to buy the best food they can ready made and serve.  On the other hand are they a busy household that just wants convenience  (i.e. kibble).

The meal plan above is fine for your adult dogs  - BUT be aware it is one meal out of 2-3 different meals your dogs should be getting for variety - different nutrition is in different meats.   For the overweight dog - just reduce the amount fed until it gets to the desired weight.

A full meal plan can take me up to 2-3 days work  - I usually provide three different menus  in order to provide complete nutrition  without need for supplementation of any kind.  There are 42 different nutrients a dog needs - and in a specific balance.  Sorry but I am not prepared to do this amount of work with so little information (and 2 days work for nothing).   Can I suggest you contact a qualified nutritionist local to your area.

[DogDad101]

Hello my two pups recently got pododermititis from a food called purina true instinct. Both my dogs had bacterial infections making there paws swell in between the toes and causing red bumps all over the body. Really trying to switch them onto natural food. I keep going to the vet but don’t have enough for what the vet recommended which was a vet nutritionists , I have a husky/golden retriever 51.3 pounds who is turning 2 years old and a sheep dog / pit bull / wolf at 69.5 pounds who is 10 years old , I’ve spent every penny trying to make these guys okay if there’s any way you can help that would be a blessing

Edited March 19 by DogDad101
I left out the age for dogs

[wolfpup]

I will ask you the same questions as I did above, in addition - which country are you in?   If not in the UK I cannot recommend any commercial food as I am not aware of any other country's food makes (or what is in it).

are you prepared to feed raw food?

How much time do you have to prepare food from scratch  (can do a batch and freeze  - ready to thaw day before needed)  I spend around 2 hours a week making my own offal  (cleaning organs of fat/connective tissue etc and mincing, packaging up etc).   The reason I do the offal myself rather than buying it is that  a whole lambs  liver bought from the butcher would cost me around £7-£8  however I can get a lamb pluck containing the lungs, heart and liver and I pay  £4.50 for each pluck.   Its not my favourite pastime I will admit .......... but I have been vegetarian for over 40 years.

How much are you able to pay for your dogs food in a week for the pair of them  - my two boys weigh  around  29kg and 35kg  and feeding raw  I spend around £25-£30 a week for the pair.   This is using a mixture of butcher's meat and commercially produced raw meat meals.   I have a problem in that one of my boys is severely food allergic so can only eat organic/wild/ but mainly the meat he eats must never have eaten grains/soya etc whilst it was alive.

Both your dogs are adult so could be fed the same meal.

 

 

[Dani2417]

Hi! I have a husky that isn’t eating. FreshPet had a recipe she really enjoyed but they have changed it up and its no longer to her liking… gave her Rachel rays nutrish dish premium dry chicken & brown rice but she wont touch it unless she’s absolutely starving (3+ days of no food). Her water intake has also been pretty low. we figured its time to get her on board with a good diet and could use a little help. Thank you in advance! Also would really appreciate any frozen treat recommendations. 

breed: Husky (F)

age: 6 years.

weight: 45lbs - 50lbs

(No know allergies)

[wolfpup]

Had a quick look at the Rachel Rays food  ..............   your dog has good sense, and I am pleased she has managed to get you thinking along the lines of real food .

I would advise you go along to your nearest raw food shop and talk to the staff there.   They will recommend different makes of raw food according to your budget.    I cannot recommend any particular make as I am not in the USA  -  however the following 'rules' may help a little.

Don't go for the cheapest  - it is the cheapest for a reason

Do not buy  a months worth of the same protein (meat) but rather give variety  -  different meats have different ratios of nutrients.  The more variety the better the chance of giving your dog a rounded diet  (as with us)

Choose a 'complete'  rather than 'complementary'  -  that way to start with you wont have to worry about adding in vegetables, offal etc.

Vary manufacturer as well as protein source  -  each manufacturer has a different take on the word  'complete'

Give your dog a whipped raw egg twice a week  -  basically the only thing it does not contain is Vitamin D.  

Get a bag of frozen whole  sardines, or mackerel, or sprats, or herrings.  If you have a choice go for the mackerel  - it has slightly more nutrition than the other fish  and the price is usually the same.   Give your dog one twice a week  -  just thaw and serve  -  she will do the rest.   Don't worry about bones  -  raw fish bones are bendy  -  if you cook the fish though the bones become lethal.   Just cut off the tail and fins before feeding - that is all you need to do.   This is a great way of getting the vitamin D that the egg lacks.   (In the summer you can give the whole fish whilst still frozen  -  she will love her 'ice lolly').

There is a website called  :-   All About Dog Food    (uk)   but it lists almost 3000 dog foods  from raw to kibble  and ranks the food in order of nutrition for the dog  as well as sustainability  etc.    It might be worth having a look at that.

You will need to give your dog more freezer space,   .......  my two boys have their own chest freezer.

Start out with buying the complete raw food  -  then if you feel you have the time and interest I can point you in the direction of web articles to teach you how to make your dogs food from scratch.    I can also send you some articles I have written  which will show you what nutrients are in some of the most common foods etc.

[Casey]

Hello - I found my way to this site because my 5 year old husky/saint bernard mix, Andy, (75 lbs/34 kg) is very picky about his food. We were feeding him Simply Nourish canned food with Eukanuba Large Breed kibble. He would only eat the chicken and rice canned food, refused all other flavor pairings offered. Unfortunately even though he would eat the food, it would give him diarrhea and the smelliest gas and stomach gurgles.

We switched him to The Farmers Dog, which is a fresh alternative to canned food. He refused all packets (pork, beef, and plain chicken) except the chicken and grains which he ate without hesitation at first, but after a couple weeks flat our refused. I was also supplementing with salmon oil which helped his itchy skin and made his coat soooo soft! But that doesn't matter if he's now refusing to eat his food at all. For background, he'll eat treats and and our food scraps - so there's no issue with his appetite. As mentioned above - we have two dogs, our other dog is a dachshund/beagle mix and will literally eat anything. He's done well on the Farmer's Dog food, so I may just keep him on it and focus on finding a DIY meal plan that works for our Husky mix. 

With that said, I've come to the decision to start making his food at home. I have the time to put in the effort and the funds to support it (considering I'm spending almost $800 (usd) a month now for two dogs.

If you have any sites that are well vetted for raw or cooked homemade foods it would be much appreciated. As well as how to come up with the correct portions. There is definitely a stigma to overcome with raw feeding, so I just need to educate myself as much as possible before attempting. 

 

 

[wolfpup]

Hi Casey and welcome to the forum.   Being in the USA you will no doubt have heard of  Dogs Naturally Magazine.   They also have a Dogs Naturally University - where you can undertake several courses in dog food nutrition/care.   The one for   "Raw Dog Food Nutrition Specialist"  is the one you need  -  I think it costs around $400  - but its been a long time since I looked.    I have taken this course and the Advanced Canine Nutrition course  - but would say that the  RDFNS course is the one that will be of the most use to you, if you are truly interested in learning about raw feeding.   

Both are distance learning courses - with no time constraints as to how long you take to complete the courses.   I took the first one in 13 days   (however,  I am a member of MENSA and despite being in my very late 60's at the time I learn very quickly.    I am a retired lecturer and if I was teaching this course - it would be a year long course ..........................  that is how much information is in it.   I took  147 pages of typed notes in size 10 font.  You have a small 5 question test at the end of each module, and cannot progress until you have passed each module.  If you fail a module 3 times you have to go back to the beginning of the whole course and repeat from the start.     The final exam is one hour long,  60 multiple choice questions which have to be completed in 75 minutes.   It sounds easy ....................... believe me it is not.

As to your own dog  -  85% of the gas will be caused by the kibble, - also as a dog ages their digestive system is not quite as efficient, slows down somewhat, - and this can lead to gas  .......  my own two are now 8 years old and have just started to suffer with a little gas  (maybe once a week).

One thing I would say is that no healthy dog will starve itself.     Your dog is either fussy (and used to being pandered to) -  OR  he is having problems with certain meat proteins.    Please take out the grains from his diet.     I have written several articles on raw dog feeding - which gives the novice the information of which meats contain which nutrition, the same goes for vegetables and even herbs  - most of this information can be found on the Dogs Naturally website  - but I have collated it all.     I have also written around 15 articles on dog nutrition - aimed for the complete novice.   If you message me  with your email address I will happily send you some of the articles to start you on your learning journey.  (Please do not put your email address in a public post).  At the top right of the screen you will see an envelope  -  click on it and go from there.    Any problems just put up a HELP post for me.

 

 

[kaytlynsarah]

If you are looking for a trust store to get high-quality products for your furry friends, do not hesitate to visit Pet CBD Club. 

[robke]

7 hours ago, kaytlynsarah said:

If you are looking for a trust store to get high-quality products for your furry friends, do not hesitate to visit Pet CBD Club. 

now explain to me what has CBD got to do with home made food...

[Acosta]

beef rice
Ingredients: 500 grams of beef, 100 grams of carrots, 50 grams of seaweed, 2 cabbage.

Method: Crush the raw materials and evenly put them into a pot to steam until cooked.

[wolfpup]

I hope you do not mean two heads of cabbage, - but as you do not state, I took 200 grams as a possible amount.

The above is lacking/deficient in the following  nutrition:

Copper

Thiamine

Riboflavin

Vit D

Vit D3

Choline

Linoleic Acid    LA

Alpha Linoleic Acid   ALA

Arachidonic Acid  AA

EPA

DHA

 

ALA, DHA, EPA  are the most important of the Omega 3 fatty acids (read essential).   What do you supplement the food with to make up for the above deficiencies?

[Silvia]

Hi there! 
 

I just discovered this website and I think it might help us learn more about home food for our Siberian Husky. 
 

History taking: 

She is 4 and loves canicrossing, exploring and eating proteins and vegetables, such as carrot, fennel, cucumber, spinach, pumpkin, etc. 
 

But she used to eat that stuff just as an extra. Actually, she has eaten Royal Canin Medium Adult since she was 4 months old, always with a small addition of meat or vegetables to refine the meal. 

Last November she was diagnosed with proteinuria, but we managed to return levels almost to normal thanks to supplements which boosts kidney health and Royal canin Urinary (she hates it!). 
 

Now, we would like to feed her with home food, in order to make her happier and stronger again. I think she suffered from not being able to eat wet food for several months.

She lost weight (now she weighs 18 kg - 39lbs) and at the same time she was in heat. So she seems a little debilitated. 
 

Last but not least, we live in Sicily and planning to move to the northern Italy in September. 

Every advice or suggestion about home food, amounts and any supplements she needs to take is welcome!

Thanks in advance. 
 

Uma’s mum 

 

 

[wolfpup]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry but this is way beyond my comfort zone.  It really depends on exactly what type of proteinuria your dog has as well as the severity   - the following article will explain - although it is a little 'advanced' - (obviously intended for vets) :-

https://todaysveterinarypractice.com/urology-renal-medicine/clinical-approach-to-proteinuria/

It does touch on the fact that protein reduction in these cases is quite a hot potato - not everyone agrees with it  -  and I tend to fall into the category of non-reduction of protein - but instead giving an easily digestible sort  i.e. high quality raw meat - it is what the dog family has been eating for the last 40 million years - (as I am fond of reminding people).  I firmly believe that kibble is definitely a no-no  -  if you take the time to investigate exactly what is in this 'food'  you will see that usually it is poorer in quality than even standard kibbles  - far too much carbohydrate - especially for a dog with kidney problems  -  but that is just my opinion after some nutrition courses.   I am NOT a vet that has studied for 5 plus years  (and possibly become indoctrinated by their own nutrition courses which are run by the pet food manufacturers  - as well, of course, the profits/cut the vet receives from every bag sold from their practice).

On looking at the composition of the normal SO  Royal Canin Urinary we find:_

Composition: Maize flour, rice, animal fats, dehydrated poultry proteins, maize gluten, minerals, hydrolysed animal proteins, vegetable fibres, soya oil, fish oil, fructo-oligosaccharides, mono- and diglycerides of palmitic and stearic acids esterified with citric acid, marigold meal.

The above  list is ordered in the order of weight of ingredients - so the main constituent is

maize flour (carbohydrate) followed by

rice (carbohydrate) followed by

animal fats - rendered, heated and dried,  (and usually rancid before the bag is halfway used)

dehydrated poultry proteins  - it is not even a single poultry protein - i.e. it is not specifically identified (could be any bird),  followed by

maize gluten  (carbohydrate)

minerals - I usually check zinc first  - so here goes:-

Zinc 3b603 (this is listed first - so it means this is the largest of the three types of zinc) -  this is zinc oxide  - Zinc Oxide is a very cheap and highly un-absorbable form of Zinc. Sadly this is the form of Zinc being used by most mid to low end dog food manufacturers. No wonder so many Snow Dogs suffer from Zinc Deficiency

Zinc  3b605 — Zinc sulphate monohydrate   Zinc Sulphate tends to be very hard on the stomach causing unnecessary stomach upset. For that reason it is recommended that it be crushed and added in with food but this also makes it less absorbable.

Zinc 3b606 — Zinc chelate (the least amount)  Chelated Zinc does not bind to iron so it tends to upset the stomach less than some other forms of Zinc but maybe slightly less absorbable than picolinate and gluconate forms.   This particular one is obtained usually from soya  (which would kill one of my huskies)

An excerpt from Zinc Deficiency in Snow Dogs by Margit Maxwell  where the above opinions come from :-

Zinc forms ranked from best to worst: Zinc citrate, picolinate and gluconate are very easily absorbable and well utilized by your dog’s body. ( 25mgs up to 100mgs daily) Chelated Zinc does not bind to iron so it tends to upset the stomach less than some other forms of Zinc but maybe slightly less absorbable than picolinate and gluconate forms.( dosage is the same as above) Zinc Methionine combines Zinc with Methionine and is reasonably well utilized in most dogs. ( 40 mgs daily dosage) Zinc Sulphate tends to be very hard on the stomach causing unnecessary stomach upset. For that reason it is recommended that it be crushed and added in with food but this also makes it less absorbable. ( 200mgs daily dosage) Zinc Oxide is a very cheap and highly un-absorbable form of Zinc. Sadly this is the form of Zinc being used by most mid to low end dog food manufacturers. No wonder so many Snow Dogs suffer from Zinc Deficiency. Did you know: while Zinc is less likely to cause stomach upset when given after food is in the stomach, it works best when it is given 4 hours after a meal has been eaten. The reason for this is has to do with calcium interfering with the efficiency of Zinc absorption. So try giving the Zinc supplement just before the evening bedtime. There will be food in the stomach but it will be far enough into the digestive process that calcium will not interfere with Zinc absorption.

I really do not need to check any further -  although I did look at the analytical constituents  - this is 50.13% carbohydrate,  an ingredient that no scientist has been able to prove that a dog needs at all (let alone a dog with organs not functioning at 100%).  Dogs require protein & fat mainly, with some phytonutrients.  The ideal proportion is twice the protein to fat  - as fat cannibalizes protein.   If the fat level is too high a dog physically cannot eat enough to get the amount of protein he needs.   You should be looking for around 10-15% fat (max) - but double the amount of protein.   One of my boys is on 10% fat but the other is limited to 6-8% because of a faulty gene.

[Silvia]

Hi and thank you so much for the very detailed answer. I really appreciate it!

The truth is that we have never been entirely sure about Royal Canin, and all chickens come home to roost now. This is why we decided to consult a veterinary nutritionist who determine the necessities of Uma according to the breed, age, physical activity and any deficiency or health problems and develop the most balanced and complete diet accordingly. We may arrange an appointment in June. They are strong dogs but delicate at the same time. 

Uma,s mum

 

[wolfpup]

I am so pleased to hear you are in touch with a vet nutritionist  -  he/she will be able to access your dogs medical records and determine exactly what Uma needs  - however if at all possible I would make it clear that you want a fresh food diet - preferably raw - and no kibble.   (you might guess I have a bit of a 'thing' about that bakery waste-product being used to 'feed' our dogs).

Please keep us informed of Uma's progress.