What do you think of retriever dog food brand for strays

[wisteria]

I’ve been giving some strays retriever puppy blend and retriever bits and bones for a while now and it’s seems to keep some amount of weight on them but there stools are kinda red and mushy not blood red looked like someone died it pink kinda, I’ve tried so many dog food for them but this seems to be the only one that’s keeping the weight on I would get better dog food, but I already have 4 other big dogs that eat raw food. 
so I was wondering if the dog food is good or not because it does keep them at a healthier weight and there coat does seem kinda dull but way shinier then before

they won’t let me near them otherwise I would take them to a no kill shelter. And I was able to deworm them through there food. 
I also put out some old dog beds and blankets for them to sleep on because it’s getting colder

[wolfpup]

Can you give me a link to the actual brand and bag you are using?  I tried to find it - but I am in the UK and don't know what country you are in.   I will have a look at it for you.   However if there is blood in the stool  (for it to be pinkish) - something is not right.    I believe it is a grain food  - and many dogs - especially street dogs will not be used to kibble  - something could well be upsetting their digestive systems.  

 

[wisteria]

7 hours ago, wolfpup said:

Can you give me a link to the actual brand and bag you are using?  I tried to find it - but I am in the UK and don't know what country you are in.   I will have a look at it for you.   However if there is blood in the stool  (for it to be pinkish) - something is not right.    I believe it is a grain food  - and many dogs - especially street dogs will not be used to kibble  - something could well be upsetting their digestive systems.  

 

this is the puppy blend, I’ve also been feeding them for a while and it looks like there stools are dyed pinkish more then blood. The food I’ve been feeding them does have dye I think, since a lot of the food is red colored 

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/retriever-puppy-blend-dog-food-40-lb-bag-2800016?store=2074&cm_mmc=organic_feed-_-GoogleShopping-_-Product-_-2800016&utm_source=Shopping&utm_medium=ECOMM&utm_content=Feed&utm_campaign=Core&cid=Shopping-ECOMM-Core--33&gclid=Cj0KCQiA2NaNBhDvARIsAEw55hiHn1xjf9JNNFjzo4mShzdZnDXqBqC0ABnej6Kw1JankOs-pQo1dcEaAnDXEALw_wcB

[wolfpup]

OK,  let me start by saying I understand you are trying to feed street dogs who do not have regular access to food.    I commend and respect you for that.   I also note you feed your own dogs raw  (so do I).  I also note you are on a budget  -   (I can relate to that – so am I).    However the reason you asked the question – is basically because you suspect the food in the bag is not what it should be despite it keeping weight on the dogs.

Can I please start by letting you know I am a qualified dog food nutrition specialist   - and currently studying to become an advanced canine nutrition specialist.    Whilst I freely admit I dislike kibble  (for good reason)  - what follows is not an attack on kibble per se  -  but to give you an idea of actually what you are paying for with this product specifically.

They state in their advertising  “By using meat and bone meal as top ingredients,.”

Now,  when you look at the  ‘top ingredients’ you will see:-

Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), animal digest, monocalcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, egg product, choline chloride, color added (red #40, yellow #5, blue #2), brewers dried yeast, L-lysine, DL-methionine, proteinated minerals (zinc, copper, manganese), zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, niacin, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, manganous oxide, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), sodium selenite, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, cobalt carbonate.

1.     Ground corn  -  this is the main ingredient  -  dogs were never meant to eat corn  -  they have no dietary requirement for starch  (let alone GMO’s) – and cannot digest it – and their bodies have to work hard to get rid of it.    It does however bump up the protein levels which is why it’s there  (and its cheap) 

2.    Chicken by-product meal,  -  this is actually the bits of the chicken – including beaks, skin, feathers (not supposed to), feet, and any flesh - left over when we have taken what we want from the animal.   Also  ‘by-product’ can include diseased animals and euthanized animals – there is no law against it  - and who really trusts dog food manufacturers who have to make a profit first and foremost.    The words  ‘meal’  and ‘by-product meal’  - mean very different things.

3.    Corn gluten meal  -  thought it best to let you read this for yourself:-  https://www.dogsciencegroup.org/corn-gluten-meal-in-dog-food/

4.    Brewers Rice : see article:   https://dogfoodcare.com/what-is-brewers-rice-in-dog-food/           

5.    Soybean meal – Don’t get me started on this  - soy almost killed my dog.  https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/soy-pet-food/   This article is by Rodney Habib – you will have heard of him.

6.    Animal Digest: https://truthaboutpetfood.com/popular-vet-recommended-supplement-contains-questionable-ingredient/

 

Now,  anything that comes after  SALT  is actually less than 1% of the whole bag’s ingredients  ............  so you can see there is not much powdered egg in there.   All the other ingredients are chemical vitamins and minerals  -  to replace all the natural elements that have been destroyed in the manufacturing process  (and to pass AAFCO basic requirements).    There are two problems with this:

 

Chemical vitamins and minerals are actually mirror-images of the natural version  - and the body does not recognise these as easily and cannot utilise them as easily as their natural cousins.

I note that the manufacturer uses the  SULFATE form of many minerals  -   Sulphate tends to be very hard on the stomach causing unnecessary  stomach upset. For that reason it is recommended that it be crushed and  added in with food but this also makes it less absorbable.

There are  7 different forms of mineral supplement  -  the sulphate comes in at number 6  -  with number 7 being oxides (the very worst).

 If you have gotten this far  -  well done.   

 Can you possibly afford a slightly better quality kibble for the dogs?    If you could please check the nutritional label on the back for the following things:

 Look for the first ingredient  - is it meat/a specified meat meal (i.e,  chicken meal, turkey meal, beef meal) – unspecified meat meal  (many different types of meat meals)   or meat by-product meal.  Or is it  carbohydrate and starch with vegetable protein.   Protein in vegetables can be legally used in total protein count  - however vegetable protein varies considerably from animal protein.

Add up the percentages of the guaranteed analysis of nutrition  - and take the total away from 100  -  the number you are left with is the amount of starch in the food.  This product comes to around 34%  -  this is good for a kibble – but I would expect no less in a puppy food as their nutritional requirements are so much higher than an adult dog.

 Look for the type of  mineral supplement  - if you see sulphate or oxide  - put it back on the shelf.

 Finally  there are things you can do that would increase the nutrition of the kibble by quite a degree  -  and not all of them are expensive.

Do you make bone broth for your dogs?   If so  about two tablespoons of broth with the kibble would add vital nutrients.

Is it possible say once a week  to whisk up a few eggs and add this to the kibble  - say half an egg for each dog?

In the spring  - do you have dandelions in your garden that you know are not sprayed?   If so  pick the leaves/flowers/root if you can get it  (anything except the flower stalk)  - put through a food processor and mix this with the kibble.   Dandelions are exceptionally nutritious (and free)

Hulled hemp seeds are very cheap on Amazon  - and are nutritional superstars  - especially for the  good omegas  - each dog would only need about one teaspoon – so it goes a long way.

Do you feed raw herrings to your dogs?   Keizebrink do kilo bags for around £3.50  - and one small herring contains more nutrition than an egg  - it also contains vitamin D  - which dogs cannot manufacture themselves  - it MUST be in the diet – and lack of vitamin D causes many different disorders.   My last bag of herring contained around 35 herrings)   They have the added advantage of containing all the organs  - which as a raw feeder you will know are dogs multi-vitamin tablet!

I really hope you can take some good things from the above, but would say that I fully understand your reasons for feeding a puppy food  - however a puppy has different nutrient requirements than an adult dog has.

One important addition to the above   -  NEVER feed hulled hemp seeds with poultry  - feed with anything else - but not poultry.     

[wisteria]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:45 AM, wolfpup said:

OK,  let me start by saying I understand you are trying to feed street dogs who do not have regular access to food.    I commend and respect you for that.   I also note you feed your own dogs raw  (so do I).  I also note you are on a budget  -   (I can relate to that – so am I).    However the reason you asked the question – is basically because you suspect the food in the bag is not what it should be despite it keeping weight on the dogs.

Can I please start by letting you know I am a qualified dog food nutrition specialist   - and currently studying to become an advanced canine nutrition specialist.    Whilst I freely admit I dislike kibble  (for good reason)  - what follows is not an attack on kibble per se  -  but to give you an idea of actually what you are paying for with this product specifically.

They state in their advertising  “By using meat and bone meal as top ingredients,.”

Now,  when you look at the  ‘top ingredients’ you will see:-

Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), animal digest, monocalcium phosphate, salt, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, egg product, choline chloride, color added (red #40, yellow #5, blue #2), brewers dried yeast, L-lysine, DL-methionine, proteinated minerals (zinc, copper, manganese), zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, niacin, copper sulfate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, manganous oxide, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), sodium selenite, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, cobalt carbonate.

1.     Ground corn  -  this is the main ingredient  -  dogs were never meant to eat corn  -  they have no dietary requirement for starch  (let alone GMO’s) – and cannot digest it – and their bodies have to work hard to get rid of it.    It does however bump up the protein levels which is why it’s there  (and its cheap) 

2.    Chicken by-product meal,  -  this is actually the bits of the chicken – including beaks, skin, feathers (not supposed to), feet, and any flesh - left over when we have taken what we want from the animal.   Also  ‘by-product’ can include diseased animals and euthanized animals – there is no law against it  - and who really trusts dog food manufacturers who have to make a profit first and foremost.    The words  ‘meal’  and ‘by-product meal’  - mean very different things.

3.    Corn gluten meal  -  thought it best to let you read this for yourself:-  https://www.dogsciencegroup.org/corn-gluten-meal-in-dog-food/

4.    Brewers Rice : see article:   https://dogfoodcare.com/what-is-brewers-rice-in-dog-food/           

5.    Soybean meal – Don’t get me started on this  - soy almost killed my dog.  https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/soy-pet-food/   This article is by Rodney Habib – you will have heard of him.

6.    Animal Digest: https://truthaboutpetfood.com/popular-vet-recommended-supplement-contains-questionable-ingredient/

 

Now,  anything that comes after  SALT  is actually less than 1% of the whole bag’s ingredients  ............  so you can see there is not much powdered egg in there.   All the other ingredients are chemical vitamins and minerals  -  to replace all the natural elements that have been destroyed in the manufacturing process  (and to pass AAFCO basic requirements).    There are two problems with this:

 

Chemical vitamins and minerals are actually mirror-images of the natural version  - and the body does not recognise these as easily and cannot utilise them as easily as their natural cousins.

I note that the manufacturer uses the  SULFATE form of many minerals  -   Sulphate tends to be very hard on the stomach causing unnecessary  stomach upset. For that reason it is recommended that it be crushed and  added in with food but this also makes it less absorbable.

There are  7 different forms of mineral supplement  -  the sulphate comes in at number 6  -  with number 7 being oxides (the very worst).

 If you have gotten this far  -  well done.   

 Can you possibly afford a slightly better quality kibble for the dogs?    If you could please check the nutritional label on the back for the following things:

 Look for the first ingredient  - is it meat/a specified meat meal (i.e,  chicken meal, turkey meal, beef meal) – unspecified meat meal  (many different types of meat meals)   or meat by-product meal.  Or is it  carbohydrate and starch with vegetable protein.   Protein in vegetables can be legally used in total protein count  - however vegetable protein varies considerably from animal protein.

Add up the percentages of the guaranteed analysis of nutrition  - and take the total away from 100  -  the number you are left with is the amount of starch in the food.  This product comes to around 34%  -  this is good for a kibble – but I would expect no less in a puppy food as their nutritional requirements are so much higher than an adult dog.

 Look for the type of  mineral supplement  - if you see sulphate or oxide  - put it back on the shelf.

 Finally  there are things you can do that would increase the nutrition of the kibble by quite a degree  -  and not all of them are expensive.

Do you make bone broth for your dogs?   If so  about two tablespoons of broth with the kibble would add vital nutrients.

Is it possible say once a week  to whisk up a few eggs and add this to the kibble  - say half an egg for each dog?

In the spring  - do you have dandelions in your garden that you know are not sprayed?   If so  pick the leaves/flowers/root if you can get it  (anything except the flower stalk)  - put through a food processor and mix this with the kibble.   Dandelions are exceptionally nutritious (and free)

Hulled hemp seeds are very cheap on Amazon  - and are nutritional superstars  - especially for the  good omegas  - each dog would only need about one teaspoon – so it goes a long way.

Do you feed raw herrings to your dogs?   Keizebrink do kilo bags for around £3.50  - and one small herring contains more nutrition than an egg  - it also contains vitamin D  - which dogs cannot manufacture themselves  - it MUST be in the diet – and lack of vitamin D causes many different disorders.   My last bag of herring contained around 35 herrings)   They have the added advantage of containing all the organs  - which as a raw feeder you will know are dogs multi-vitamin tablet!

I really hope you can take some good things from the above, but would say that I fully understand your reasons for feeding a puppy food  - however a puppy has different nutrient requirements than an adult dog has.

One important addition to the above   -  NEVER feed hulled hemp seeds with poultry  - feed with anything else - but not poultry.     

I’m switching the strays over to “ diamond dog food for adults dogs, I can definitely add eggs to there food my local Walmart sells around 32 eggs for around 3$, I’ve also been cooking some of the raw scraps for the strays and putting it in there, there’s 9 strays, 1 mom dog and her 4 pups  and then 4 others, and I’ve been feeding the puppies diamond puppy food and same with the mom. 

[wolfpup]

19 minutes ago, wisteria said:

I’m switching the strays over to “ diamond dog food for adults dogs, I can definitely add eggs to there food my local Walmart sells around 32 eggs for around 3$, I’ve also been cooking some of the raw scraps for the strays and putting it in there, there’s 9 strays, 1 mom dog and her 4 pups  and then 4 others, and I’ve been feeding the puppies diamond puppy food and same with the mom. 

Its good for mum to eat the same food as the pups  - it will contain extra nutrients she will need to replace depleted stocks after feeding her pups herself.   Don't forget the dandelions  - packed full of nutrition  - but only collect from areas you know are not sprayed.

Bone broth would be excellent for the pups and mom as well   -  and you can probably get the bones for free (I do - smaller butchers have to pay to get their waste removed)  - just need a slow cooker and some apple cider vinegar + water - cook on low for 2 days  (or 36 hours is ok) strain out all the bones and give the dogs the meat and liquid.    Bone broth contains:-

BONE BROTH

VITAMINS

B6

B12

C

D

K

THIAMIN

NIACIN

MINERALS

ZINC

IRON

CALCIUM

MAGNESIUM

POTASSIUM

COPPER

PHOSPHORUS

SILICON

SULPHUR

AMINO ACIDS

ARGANINE

GLUTAMINE

GLYCINE PROLINE

ALSO

CHONDRITIN

GELATIN

GLUCOSAMINE

HYALAURONIC ACID

RIBOFLAVIN

TRACE MINERALS

So you can see its worth doing.   Good luck  - and if you need any nutritional advice just shout.