ZRD and Zinc Defficiency Symptoms

[Malene S. Hansen]

Pictures of my Lúa when we just began to give the zinc supplement.

Here she is with her puppy in front.

[Malene S. Hansen]

This is what she looked like 11 months ago:

http://tosafoto.dk/Kundegalleri/MaleneSH/index.html

I'm chocked to see what ZRD did to my dog.

[Huskymum]

This is what she looked like 11 months ago:

http://tosafoto.dk/Kundegalleri/MaleneSH/index.html

I'm chocked to see what ZRD did to my dog.

Having puppies will stress a bitch who is prone to ZRD. My one girl got it very, very bad after her first litter. Her previous owners were going to put her down. I took her and it was nearly 2 years before I got it under control. She had a litter with me last winter and it flared again, but I knew to give her zinc. I used Zinpro with good results and put her on Annamaet Aqualuk dog food. She now has NO lesions at all. The areas where the hair has been lost, you can try Solid Gold Animal Skin Cream. It worked to re-grow hair on Jeksu's chin.

[persephona]

Having puppies will stress a bitch who is prone to ZRD. My one girl got it very, very bad after her first litter. Her previous owners were going to put her down. I took her and it was nearly 2 years before I got it under control. She had a litter with me last winter and it flared again, but I knew to give her zinc. I used Zinpro with good results and put her on Annamaet Aqualuk dog food. She now has NO lesions at all. The areas where the hair has been lost, you can try Solid Gold Animal Skin Cream. It worked to re-grow hair on Jeksu's chin.

I would like to point out that I don't think it is wise to breed a bitch who has already had ZRD. To my knowledge, this is a genetic issue and the pups will also be prone to ZRD, won't they?

[onlythisgirl]

We thought Roxy was showing early signs of this, so we took her to the vet just to be on the safe side, turns out she has dog acne.

Anyway it is good to know the signs for this, as the earlier the treatment is started the less discomfort the furbaby will be in! Great thread

http://www.allabouthuskies.com/health-zrd.html - i liked this link (and the site in general) hope it helps

[Malene S. Hansen]

I agree! It's insane to breed on a dog with ZRD. But in our case, the first signs of the disease appeared four weeks after the delivery of the pups.

Our breeder has now found out, that ZRD comes from Lúa's grandmother. But nobody knew that it was ZRD she had. They thought it was a rash from wrong food.

I have taken all precautions, and our three pups are never to be bred on. I have recommended that all dogs with same genes as Lúa are taken out of breeding plans, as the disease is genetic inherited, as far as we know today.

[Huskymum]

I would like to point out that I don't think it is wise to breed a bitch who has already had ZRD. To my knowledge, this is a genetic issue and the pups will also be prone to ZRD, won't they?

Most of the working lines have it. And many other Siberian lines as well. It is a breed issue more than particular to any one line. It's very, very prevalent. Much of the time it's misdiagnosed as flea allergy or "hot spots." If you stopped breeding any dog or bitch who had episodes of ZRD, you would in short order, not have Siberians. They evolved on a diet rich in zinc and our modern diets, especially those high in grains are not really appropriate for a breed that developed eating fish, seal, whale blubber, etc. So, you are correct, if you want to develop a Siberian well suited to eating processed food, don't breed any individual who has shown signs of ZRD, or any other health issue related to eating Frankenfood. An analogy would be scurvy among 18th century British seamen. The solution was feeding them citrus foods, not culling all the ones who developed scurvy. Siberians need the appropriate diet and need more zinc under times of stress. If we fed them the sort of diet they evolved on, I doubt we'd have much incidence of ZRD, if any at all. Knowledge is also power. My puppy buyers have been made aware to provide proper, more breed appropriate diet. We can get too carried away with the little knowledge of genetics we have and throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you follow this logic, none of my bitch's girls should have been bred. In which case, the #1 Siberian at the 2008 French National Livestock show would never have been bred. And all the amazing work ethic and power on the sled would be lost to posterity and the breed.

[onlythisgirl]

They evolved on a diet rich in zinc and our modern diets, especially those high in grains are not really appropriate for a breed that developed eating fish, seal, whale blubber, etc. So, you are correct, if you want to develop a Siberian well suited to eating processed food, don't breed any individual who has shown signs of ZRD, or any other health issue related to eating Frankenfood. An analogy would be scurvy among 18th century British seamen. The solution was feeding them citrus foods, not culling all the ones who developed scurvy.

It's not always a lack of zinc in the diet, sometimes it's the inability to process zinc, which can be far more serious. So breeding (not you, in general) from those bitches that lack the ability to process zinc isn't breeding to improve the breed, which is what most good breeders aim to do, right?

I don't think anyone was saying that any husky that suffers from ZRD should be 'culled' just that breeding from those lines may not be advisable.

[Huskymum]

I agree! It's insane to breed on a dog with ZRD. But in our case, the first signs of the disease appeared four weeks after the delivery of the pups.

Our breeder has now found out, that ZRD comes from Lúa's grandmother. But nobody knew that it was ZRD she had. They thought it was a rash from wrong food.

I have taken all precautions, and our three pups are never to be bred on. I have recommended that all dogs with same genes as Lúa are taken out of breeding plans, as the disease is genetic inherited, as far as we know today.

Educate your puppy buyers about proper diet if you are selling her pups. As I said in my other reply, it is rash to stop breeding because of an environmental issue. I am not insane. In fact, I was a research assistant in genetics. Genetics is far more complex than most people know or understand. Genes are turned off and on by things in the environment such as diet, medications, chemicals. Life is not black and white. We all live with and do cost-benefit analysis and risk analysis every day. Whether your girl's lines should be continued is cost benefit analysis of the contribution her offspring could make to to the breed and whether good, proper, zinc rich diet can be provided. This is not like juvenile cataracts. There is no known environment or dietary aspect to that. No dietary change can prevent cataracts. It most often makes the dog blind and seriously affects it's life. Yes, in that case, neuter animals in the line. I have a friend in another breed who bred for 22 years. She started feeding raw and her own formula and then suddenly has 3 or 4 individuals with thyroid problems who now must be on medication. She was thinking her line was ruined and she had done it with diet. I talked to a geneticist who said permanent genetic changes do not occur in only 2 generations. She has made changes and does not give them so much kelp now, as the vets said it might have been too much kelp in her formula which caused the problem. This is a perfect example very much like what we must deal with with the ZRD.

[persephona]

But it isn't normal to have to give you dog Zinc supplements, despite having a breed appropriate diet. It's one thing to have to supplement the diet with things like fish oil, raw liver and so on, but some dogs are so bad that they can't do without Zinc supplements for their whole life as they just cannot process it and this, in my opinion, should not be perpetuated.

[Huskymum]

It's not always a lack of zinc in the diet, sometimes it's the inability to process zinc, which can be far more serious. So breeding (not you, in general) from those bitches that lack the ability to process zinc isn't breeding to improve the breed, which is what most good breeders aim to do, right?

I don't think anyone was saying that any husky that suffers from ZRD should be 'culled' just that breeding from those lines may not be advisable.

Are there any veterinary studies to support the hypothesis that it's the inability to process zinc? Or that the inability to process zinc is in fact genetic in origin? In the GSD breed there is a genetic exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. They now know it's genetic as it has been found on a certain gene. However, it's possible after GI infections from things like giardia, for the exocrine pancreas to be damaged and for EPI to develop which is caused by illness and is not genetic. Biochemistry is complicated. We know that zinc absorption is affected by calcium. But, we don't know if maybe there are other chemicals which block zinc absorption or whether the lack of another chemical causes the zinc not to be absorbed. Low vitamin C levels can also cause zinc not to be absorbed.

Yes, most certainly breeders seek to improve the breed. But, we define improvement. There are some who are seeking pretty, fluffy dogs. But, they are not sound for running performance. What we need is honest dialogue about issues and to do that cost benefit analysis, which is what I did. Most of the European Siberian clubs have not issued a blanket prohibition on breeding cryptoorchids. Their guidance statements say that a cost benefit analysis should be done about whether the individual is worth breeding and has other characteristics which are important to the breed. If you read in the International Siberian Husky books, you will see that historically, great sleddogs who were cryptoorchids were in fact bred. The incidence is about 1% in nature. The Siberian Husky Club of America has issued a blanket prohibition about breeding cryptoorchids. There is evidence is is carried on an X chromosome. Yet, many breeders continue to do it and use females who are known producers of cryptoorchids. I know of one line that has a more than 50% rate and despite the "ethics," continue to breed lines that have it. Without open and honest discussion, it has gone underground and people now lie about it, but do it anyway. And, there are those whose dogs were cryptoorchids which suddenly have 2 testicles.

[Huskymum]

But it isn't normal to have to give you dog Zinc supplements, despite having a breed appropriate diet. It's one thing to have to supplement the diet with things like fish oil, raw liver and so on, but some dogs are so bad that they can't do without Zinc supplements for their whole life as they just cannot process it and this, in my opinion, should not be perpetuated.

Depends on what you're feeding. The dogs I feed raw, I supplement with zinc. Also feed Balance It, a supplement specifically home cooked and raw diet and a vegetable oil and fish oil and raw liver. My diet was developed by a Cornell Veterinary School nutritional vet. But, my girl is now on Annamaet Aqualuk has never been better and gets no supplemental zinc at all. Her first litter, she was fed a food which has as it's first ingredient corn. Personally, I would never feed it to my dogs, never mind to a pregnant bitch. It's made by a company in Alabama, USA and for hunting hounds. Other than my girl, there is no history of ZRD in the line. But, my guess is that they have all received good, appropriate diets. Most long distance racing dogs are on 10 mg of famotadine (Pepcid AC). No one really knows why, but dogs who train and race more than 100 miles per day are very prone to developing ulcers. There are some dietary supplements like psyllium which can help prevent ulcers. These are Alaskans mostly. But, it can happen to Siberians as well. Just try telling any of the top racers that they shouldn't breed those dogs, just because they need a Pepcid a day.

It's so hard to say with ZRD because stress can bring it out. And, the interrelationships with foods and chemicals are so complex. Everyone's situation is different. Some people and some dogs live constant high stress lives. That might be normal for them. But, their needs and the needs of their dogs are different. Maybe without the stress the dogs wouldn't need zinc supplements. Or maybe with a different dog food or type of food. Another thing that caused my girl to break out was pesticides. We live near vineyards. Every Sunday she would have a major breakout. I figured out driving home one day that the vineyards did their spraying on Thursdays and Fridays. My vet said that was causing the breakouts. She gave me a homeopathic remedy to give her to help her liver break down the pesticides and the Sunday breakouts stopped.

[onlythisgirl]

If it were genetic in origin wouldn't it be far more prominent within the breed?

As for the breeding, i know there will always be people that breed despite 'undesirable characteristics' to create their ideal. My improvement would just be a happy healthy dog free of any medical issues However that isn't likely to happen within any species, and i'm not and do not wish to be a dog breeder!

[Malene S. Hansen]

Lua has Always been fed with either raw meat/fish or processed dog food of high quality, absolutely without grain. But anyways she developed zrd. So in our case it has notning to do with wrong kind of food.

[Huskymum]

Lua has Always been fed with either raw meat/fish or processed dog food of high quality, absolutely without grain. But anyways she developed zrd. So in our case it has notning to do with wrong kind of food.

She is a lovely girl by the way. Did she develop it after the puppies? That is when it seems to happen most often in bitches who are prone, but never had it before on good diet. Stress of pregnancy and nursing. We know from people what extra is needed, like Folic Acid during pregnancy. What is otherwise a good diet, is not enough for pregnancy. But, it's harder to do right thing for dogs, as there is not so much research. In nature, they would find what they need. We just do the best we can.

I supplemented zinc after her pregnancy, not during. Afraid to give too much vitamins during pregnancy. She was able to hold her own and not be any worse than before. After the puppies were weaned and she went back onto good quality dog food, she's been having no problems and gets no supplement.

[Malene S. Hansen]

Yes, the first signs came four weeks after birth. She is herself again now, and looks beautiful.

Sadly she was neutered 9 weeks after the birth of the puppies, because the vet thought she had a hormonal disease!

She just became worse and worse, and the Day we decided to give her peace, we lucille saw a new vet, an American immigrant.

He diagnosed her correctly within five minutes! I'm so happy that we chose a new vet that day.

[Huskymum]

Wow. I am so glad that you got a new opinion. That was close. The hormones seem to influence it. But, it seems males and females equally get it. I've heard of many male dogs. And yes, many many vets don't recognize it. I saw a Siberian in Florida who had it not even so bad and the vet was telling the man to put the dog to sleep and buy a new puppy. That same vet told me to put my 15 year old to sleep just because he was older than the expected lifespan of the breed and "get yourself a new puppy." People like that should not be allowed to practice.

My girl was going to be put to sleep and I begged for her life. The vets in Sweden had not been familiar with ZRD and she went at least 8 or 9 months before I was told. A picture was sent to me and I identified it. A woman in Canada experienced for 35 years breeding Siberians confirmed it, just from the photo and also said secondary staph infection. In her case, they put her on prednisone and it made it much worse. They can also get secondary staph infections because the dermatitis is raw and irritated. You cannot treat that successfully without treating the underlying ZRD. Once you treat the ZRD, then the body will pretty much get rid of the staph by itself. My girl had permanent damage to her tear duct and also will never get the hair back above her eyebrows.

My first Siberian had this and I was able to tell when his hair started to get a little brittle and dry feeling. I would give him 50 mg of zinc and it would go back to normal. He never, ever got lesions or even dry skin.

[Malene S. Hansen]

I'm from Denmark, and the vets here dó not know antydning about zrd, except from that American vet we met in the last minute.

Lua's neck was one huge staph infection. Antibiotics only helped a little. I'm so glad that we found the correct diagnosis beforeit was too late.

[Huskymum]

I'm so glad you did too. Jeksu was in northern Sweden and the vets there knew nothing, but to give prednisone and antibiotics and do skin scrapings. They knew nothing about diet. She had lesions on her face and around her eyes and all over her body. I sent zinc tablets to Sweden to make sure she got it. She doesn't even need zinc now. She has scars and areas with no hair, but she has no lesions at all now, has a beautiful coat and is not even on extra zinc.