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Only behaves/obedient when wearing a prong collar?!


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Hey, guys what's up!

My guy just turned 1 year a couple months ago and since he was a puppy he had lunging issues and going crazy when meeting people. I tried every positive method using treats, toys and using distance,but none of these methods worked, until i started using corrections. I first started using a choke chain and it worked wonders, he now does not pull or lunge at other dogs, only when wearing it. He still goes crazy around strangers so i started using a prong collar to train him.

I got both the choke chain and prong collar with the intention of using them for a short period until I train these bad behaviors away.

But my husky has learned that he only receives a firm correction when he is wearing a prong/ or choke chain and knows that the corrections from a regular martingale does not faze him.

....So when he's wearing the martingale he continues to lunge and misbehave.

 

What should I do i'm my case? Continue to use the choke chain?.....He is too stubborn for only positive training when it comes to lunging etc. He wont even open his mouth for the most high value treats.

 

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

 

 

-P.S. I fully understand how these tools work and only use them because he walks mostly with a loose leash, I understand that if he is a puller these tools can be dangerous. I didn't just slap these tools on him, but instead taught him leash pressure etc.

 

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Every dog is different and just keep training different techniques until you find the one that works for him.

My two did the same thing.

My female is now fine in anything I put on her. It took about a month maybe 6 weeks of training.

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My male is unfortunately tool trained (same as yours-only behaves in the prong)

However, I have been trying out a new method on him.

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*I only have the loop in my hand. He had the option to be 20 feet in front but decided on his own to walk close to me.* 

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*Before he got to the end he turned to check in*

I use a 20 foot long line and we go down to the coda-sac and play fitch. Or I run with a toy and let him chance it. Once some energy is out of him we start our walk.

We go a few feet, I stop, he gets to the end (I call him before there is tension) and I run backwards or we play.  Then we go a few feet the other direction doing the same thing. Now he knows where the end is and will comeback to me without prompting.

Sometimes I’ll shorten the line sometimes I’ll have it completely out. 

I will also stop randomly and place him in a sit for a few seconds and then walk on.

 I also found it helpful to focus on controlled type play/walks rather then distance. I give them a command first sit, turn, attention, so on before putting pressure on the lead to give them kind of a heads up on what we are about to do. This also gives them the chance to do it on their own. If they do it on their own they get rewarded.

If I see another dog we just turn and go the other way or be across the stress and make him set. (This is where leave it and walk on commands really come in handy)

He really didn’t start improving until I started impulse control training with them. I started working on this when they were around 6 months but it didn’t start clicking until around 13/14 months of age.

Place training, door control (kennel, front door, car door, and at stores or daycare), I found a bunch of free training videos on YouTube. I just went through them and kinda pieced together stuff that worked for mine.

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*having them place while I was doing something* you can use a towel or a floor mat (my girl ate her mat so I got these)*

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*sometimes I work them separately. Boy is in place while the girl is crated.*

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*the girl is crated with the door open. Is not aloud out until I give the release command. This is the same going through all doors and the car door*

There are also a lot of great post under Behavioral and Training in this forum.

 

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Marley is an air-head on a short lead,  its down to his hyper excitability  -  he has been in training for around 6 months  (this time around)   pulls like a champion,  a frustrated greeter  -  i.e.  if he sees another dog  he jumps up, pulls even stronger, fights the lead,  has pulled us both over on numerous occasions -  same with cats,  flying leaf litter.   The secret with him is to get him calmed down  within the first 5 minutes of going out.    This usually entails lots of walking forwards and backwards over the same 8-10 yards until he gets fed up.   He eventually gets the message that if he pulls  -  he does not get to go anywhere,  whereas if he walks decently he gets there much faster.     

I use a front lead harness with both my dogs  -   so if/when they pull it actually turns them towards me and takes away around 60% of their pulling power.

My opinion of prong collars is not printable.   Training, Training, Training, Patience, Patience, Patience, reward,  -  repeat.

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am glad I live in a country where the dreaded prong collar is illegal to use and to buy/sell, there are so many other methods which yes might require some more training, for example front leading harnesses etc...

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Yep prongs have a bad rap. Some people never take the time to try all other options or even take the time to train.

 I went through every other option first. I do train my pups. And in the pic of my male walking: the prong is even loose, he is in no way showing signs of discomfort.

 I have also posted pics of them in their free motion harnesses. Which when we run they are fine in. I don’t want to run everywhere. It’s the controlled walks were he looses his mind.

Plus, as I stated, my girl was able to be trained out of it. So obviously I am putting the time into training my pups.

My pups are spoiled, happy, and behavior pretty damn good. 

The vet has no issues with him in a prong because she knows I have tried everything. I took the time to learn how to properly use a prong (the prong causes less damage then a regular flat buckle or a choker ) their throats are fine, and they are happy.

There are different types of brand prongs. I use springer out of Germany. Rounded instead of flat and has a safety cover over the buckle.

I don’t use a prong because I am lazy and don’t train my pups. I use it because it is the only thing that he won’t gator roll in, lounge and choke himself when he sees people or dogs. If a prong works for mine then so be it. 

@dinfe22 I get what you are saying. When they are in the zone, you could have raw meat in your hands and he doesn’t care. Doesn’t matter how well he listens to commands any other time he just doesn’t listen.

Jumping 4 feet in the air, running backwards, screaming, gator rolls and it doesn't matter what tool you are using and it doesn’t matter how much time and training you put into it. 

You clearly stated you have tried everything. You obviously are trying and have leash pressure trained him. Keep doing what you. It takes time. You know your pup.

Unless someone has gone through exactly what you are going through, they don’t understand.

 

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First off, thank you @2Huskyfun for the detailed answer, I really appreciate it. I sorta work on impulse control through place commands but like you said I definitely could increase the training.

I think i'll use these tools until my husky is trained out of lunging and other bad leash manner, then switch back to a regular martingale collar.

I just don't understand how some countries are banning these tools like prong collars and even crates......freaking crates! These are looked at as torturing the dog when in reality they're a far better option than say leaving a puppy exposed to dangerous things around the house, or rooms, and having a dog choke itself on a flat collar.

I just don't get how these are frowned upon by people but they're ok with having thousands of dogs euthanized because of overpopulation in shelters, because they don't want to utilize these tools.

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So he is "collar smart"...
If you want to be free of needing the prong to make your dog comply, I'm afraid the only solution would be obedience training, and lots of it (daily practice i.e. 5-10 min daily).
Training the "Heel" and "Sit" for instance will put a stop to crazy lunging in the presence of people and other dogs.
You need to train at first in the quiet of your home, then outside in quiet street, then on quiet parts of walk, before using the "cues" in high-distraction situations like other dogs, other people. 
My dog used to act crazy when passing other dogs. When he got the hang of the "Stay Close" cue (I use in place of a formal Heel), we were finally able to pass calmly.
I also see people block the view of the passing dog or passing person with their body while putting their dog in a "Sit" - that seems to work well too.

I know huskies are not the easiest breed to train!
I suspect my dog may be unusually trainable since he is half shepherd...but training worked for us. 

For pulling, our obedience teacher did recommend the front-clip harness. I bought one but could never get it to fit right! Eventually i trained him out of pulling and he still just wears a martingale (nothing fancy...I would either stop or do a 90 degree turn if he pulled. What he had to learn was that pulling never got him to where he wanted to go, but a loose leash did! )

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On 9/18/2019 at 10:14 AM, dinfe22 said:

First off, thank you @2Huskyfun for the detailed answer, I really appreciate it. I sorta work on impulse control through place commands but like you said I definitely could increase the training.

I think i'll use these tools until my husky is trained out of lunging and other bad leash manner, then switch back to a regular martingale collar.

I just don't understand how some countries are banning these tools like prong collars and even crates......freaking crates! These are looked at as torturing the dog when in reality they're a far better option than say leaving a puppy exposed to dangerous things around the house, or rooms, and having a dog choke itself on a flat collar.

I just don't get how these are frowned upon by people but they're ok with having thousands of dogs euthanized because of overpopulation in shelters, because they don't want to utilize these tools.

Look into (Pet Corrector) works great for snapping them out of the zone.

 I have only had to use it twice. Now I carry it for when strays run up on us.

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