Just Another Sad Reminder...

[SnowDogLove]

In no way am I defending this man for what he did, because it was downright cruel and probably uncalled for since he never actually says that the dogs were attacking his cattle, however, this is just another reason why people should keep their animals contained to their own property. Most of us Husky owners already know this but I know owners of other breeds who live out in the country who just let their dogs roam around like this. It is in the animal's best interest to be contained to keep them safe, to avoid this type of heartbreak especially.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/firefighter-kills-neighbor-s-dogs-sickening-facebook-pic-gets-firefighter-fired?cid=sm-facebook-022715-7.30am-FirefighterKillsDogs

[robke]

guy needs to be put away for a long time for animal cruelty...

[mydiamond]

Read this yesterday in all honesty I see the word "Texas" and shrugged. Not because people from there are cruel, but because that's probably just culture over there. Sad thing is: no one knows if that's the first time those dogs are in that man's yard or not.

[SnowDogLove]

Yea, it says that there will be an investigation going on, but what good will that really do at this point? Nothing is going to bring that man his two dogs back.   

[elenamarie]

I'm going to be the voice of disagreement here but having lived in a rural, livestock-thick area for 22 years I understand why the dogs were shot and sadly agree with the action. It isn't the dogs' fault, they were doing what instinct told them to do, but necessary nonetheless.

 

Two events occur to create these issues. City people dump unwanted dogs in rural areas and leave the dogs to fend for themselves. I've seen this so many times I cannot count them all. Those dogs form packs, perfectly natural canine behavior, and begin hunting whatever they can find. This is the most common event that results in packs of feral dogs and livestock, particularly cattle and sheep, are easy prey.

 

The other culprits are idiots who move into a rural area and believe their dogs have the right to roam wherever they please, and those dogs often develop the same instinctual behavior as the abandoned dogs.

 

When we first moved here I had one neighbor a quarter of a mile away. My then four year old daughter was cornered on her swing set by a pack of eleven feral dogs and all I had on hand to defend her was a hoe, which I used to seriously wound two of the dogs before they ran off. If I'd had a gun I would've shot each of them. By the end of the year all eleven dogs were dead after killing livestock and I had a gun just in case.

 

My neighbor's flock herd (need more coffee) of goats was nearly decimated by three chows owned by one of the idiots who thought their half acre of property gave their dogs free run of the entire area. I saw those dogs run across my property several times with blood all over them. The chows most often chose the kid goats to kill but never ate any part of the kill. They were killing because it was instinct but didn't eat the kills because they were fed at their owner's lot. The owners were warned by both me and my neighbor that the dogs would be shot the next time they showed up on either my or my neighbor's property. Five more kid and nanny goats were killed before my neighbor shot all three chows in the act of killing a nanny goat.

 

If we had our way, city people wouldn't dump their unwanted dogs on our road to fend for themselves and new people moving in would control their dogs appropriately. None of us wants to shoot a dog but when the dog is dumped or the owners uncaring and the dogs revert to instinct, what else can we do?

 

Understand that livestock are these people's livelihoods. Each cow or goat or sheep killed by a feral or wandering dog is a serious loss of income for the family whose livestock has been killed. The equivalent for city dwellers is a bank teller occasionally stealing $100 from your checking account. You wouldn't put up with that, would you?

 

When we got Sarah I knew full well that the breed's prey drive is strong and we would have to ensure that she never, ever left our property out of our direct control. I understand that should she escape the fence or bolt off the leash, she'll go straight for the herd of Angus cattle a half mile to the west, or the horses a mile to the east, or my neighbor's flock next door to hunt and kill. Trust me, every time we pass those areas she's on her toes, that look in her eye, every muscle quivering. That's why I've trained her to wait for the command that she can pass the threshold, built a monster fence around her yard and walk that fence regularly to ensure no escape routes have been created, and have strong leashes, collars and harnesses that are unlikely to break if she lunges. God forbid, if she ever gets loose and goes after the cattle or horses or goats, I know she's liable to be shot and it would kill me to lose her, but I also know that it would be my fault for failing to keep her contained and controlled. I must be vigilant every time I let Sarah out of the house and I had to train myself to maintain that vigilance as much as I had to train Sarah to obey commands even when her instinctual prey drive is rising.

 

As for the comment about Texas, I was raised in the sparsely populated Colorado mountains and the same rule applies there as in Texas and in my more populated yet still rural abode. It's hardly a Texas thing.

 

The fault lies with the humans who fail to control their dogs, and those who dump their dogs. In the story above, the man who allowed his labs to roam uncontrolled is at fault, not the man who shot the dogs mauling a calf. The dogs were doing what came natural to them. Their owner is an irresponsible jerk who needs to be banned from owning any other canine.

Edited March 3, 2015 by elenamarie

[mydiamond]

I can definitely see this from that point of view. I apologize if my comment sounds narrow-minded. I should've specified further that I'm talking about countryside, farmland areas in general. I guess we can all agree that they have a vastly different culture from us city dwellers and it's unfair to simply say right or wrong when we don't know anything about said culture. But then again, you did say that no one wants to shoot the dogs. What's disturbing about this particular story IMO is how this man seem to take pride in killing those dogs by featuring them like trophies on social media the question is: how far can someone's behavior in social media describe that person's personality/character/decision? Maybe the man didn't mean this post to come across that way at all. But it *did* come across as a heartless brag to me

Edited March 3, 2015 by mydiamond

[SnowDogLove]

First of all: I'm going to have to disagree with your "dog slaughters livestock = teller stealing money" analogy as no one would be shooting a teller who steals from them...

 

And second of all: I mentioned when I first posted this story that the man who shot the dogs had a right to due so because they were on his property and near his livestock, so there is no disagreement with what you are saying. I was simply posting this story because it is another reminder that pet owners need to be more diligent in keeping their pets contained and not free to roam so that situations like this can be avoided if possible.

 

The shooting of these dogs might have been warranted, but the boasting display on social media was not and was done in bad taste.

[elenamarie]

I can definitely see this from that point of view. I apologize if my comment sounds narrow-minded. I should've specified further that I'm talking about countryside, farmland areas in general. I guess we can all agree that they have a vastly different culture from us city dwellers and it's unfair to simply say right or wrong when we don't know anything about said culture. But then again, you did say that no one wants to shoot the dogs. What's disturbing about this particular story IMO is how this man seem to take pride in killing those dogs by featuring them like trophies on social media the question is: how far can someone's behavior in social media describe that person's personality/character/decision? Maybe the man didn't mean this post to come across that way at all. But it *did* come across as a heartless brag to me

 

I read the comments posted to the news story and wasn't surprised to find that those who live in cities and towns expected the fireman to call animal control. They don't understand that there is no such thing as "animal control" in rural areas. After a 911 call the police take an hour to arrive unless one just happens to be cruising nearby. The county sheriff makes plain to everyone he meets that everyone should own a weapon and know how to use it because in the event of an attempted violent crime, the police will never arrive in time to save anyone, will only show up to write up a report. That concept is completely foreign to people living in cities and towns. The facts of everyday life are very different between rural and urban/suburban areas, and this event is a good illustration of that divide.

 

I left facebook years ago so I can't read the man's post with the image of the dead dogs, hence I can't comment on that. When my neighbor killed the chows, however, I helped him load the corpses in the bed of a truck and leave the corpses at the entrance of the owners' driveway. We intended to demonstrate our seriousness about protecting our livestock and children since nothing else had worked. Was that bragging? I don't think so. We were angry over the entire thing. I remember the dead nanny goat, throat ripped out, a front leg half torn off, intestines extruding just a bit. The rest of the flock going nuts and the nanny's kid nuzzling his dead nanny's bloody teats. At that moment I was so angry I might have been able to shoot the idiots who caused it all, but I don't think I could've followed through with shooting them even though they deserved shooting more than the chows. The idiots were at fault, the cause of the entire thing.

 

Could the fireman have been experiencing the same thing when he posted that image? It wouldn't surprise me if he were but I don't know. I know the frustration of trying to tell an idiot that their dog is harassing/killing livestock, is a threat to small children, and being blown off, insulted, etc. I know the rage of seeing an animal in mortal danger of death or already dead, and knowing that an idiot human is responsible for the entire incident. Social media allows one to vent those emotions publicly and in the heat of the moment post exactly what I felt dropping those dead chows at the idiots' driveway. Probably not a good thing. Yet I am more than the rage I experienced during that event and one would be wrong to judge my entire character by my emotions and thoughts at the apex of that moment.

 

Most of us have our own dogs and know how to manage them, just as we manage livestock. We know that a well trained and well managed dog is not likely to kill or maim livestock. I know my dog in particular is a real threat, which is why I've taken such care to train her well and manage her every moment of every day. That's why we don't like killing feral and semi-feral dogs. We know it isn't the dogs' fault but the humans' fault. Alas, we can't shoot the humans.

 

The owners of the chows called the police and tried to have charges brought against us. Instead the police informed the idiot owners that they were guilty of a crime and fined the idiots $100 for each of the dead chows allowed to leave the idiots' property. That finally convinced the idiots to keep their future dogs on their own property. The sheriff then took us aside and reminded us of the triple S strategy for any future problems: shoot, shovel and shut up. That's the normal method of handling these problems but it teaches the idiots nothing and the cycle begins again with new dogs left to roam neglected and potentially dangerous.

 

Another factor regarding feral and semi-feral dogs: most are unvaccinated and have never seen a veterinarian, hence very possibly carrying rabies in various stages of the disease as well as other pathogens. Rabies is rampant here and I would never get near enough to an unknown dog to risk a bite. Rabies treatments are not pleasant. Then there is leptospirosis, intestinal worms, etc. It's a complex and very serious problem in rural areas, a problem solely the fault of the humans who dump their dogs or neglect their dogs.

 

Fix the humans, solve the problem. Unfortunately I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

[mydiamond]

I may be stretching this a little bit, but I still think the posting of the dead dogs to social media is inappropriate. There's punishing people for being an idiot and then there's going too far in giving that punishment. You dropped off the dead chows to -their owners-. The story revolves between you, your neighbor, the Chow owners. Period. This guy made a public Facebook post. IMO your story delivers the message: "your actions have repercussions and I've warned you one too many times!". What this guy did delivers the message: "this dog's owners are idiots and I want everyone who sees this post to punish them too!". Since that post is public, said "everyone" = the world. I do think that's a few notches too far. But unfortunately for this fireman, rural area culture is not very popular and his post translated to "I killed dogs and I'm happy I did" into urban/suburban culture. Then the whole thing backfired. But still, he did not make that post with the best intentions at hand. About the "spur of the moment" argument, I understand how it comes to play in your story. But this guy actually spent time to walk back into his home, grabbed his phone, took the picture, uploaded it to Facebook, added the comment, switched the privacy setting to "public" and then hit post. That requires way more than just a 'spur of the moment' IMO

 

EDIT: ... except that post's privacy setting is on "friends only". Just re-checked. Sorry. Well then I guess assuming people on this guy's friend list all live near him, he had that one horrible neighbor who leaked the post to the rest of the globe. I still find it inappropriate though... even if his target audience isn't "the world" like I originally suggested, he's still dragging random outsiders into the story to punish the dogs' owner along with him

Edited March 3, 2015 by mydiamond

[elenamarie]

I may be stretching this a little bit, but I still think the posting of the dead dogs to social media is inappropriate. There's punishing people for being an idiot and then there's going too far in giving that punishment. You dropped off the dead chows to -their owners-. The story revolves between you, your neighbor, the Chow owners. Period. This guy made a public Facebook post. IMO your story delivers the message: "your actions have repercussions and I've warned you one too many times!". What this guy did delivers the message: "this dog's owners are idiots and I want everyone who sees this post to punish them too!". Since that post is public, said "everyone" = the world. I do think that's a few notches too far. But unfortunately for this fireman, rural area culture is not very popular and his post translated to "I killed dogs and I'm happy I did" into urban/suburban culture. Then the whole thing backfired. But still, he did not make that post with the best intentions at hand. About the "spur of the moment" argument, I understand how it comes to play in your story. But this guy actually spent time to walk back into his home, grabbed his phone, took the picture, uploaded it to Facebook, added the comment, switched the privacy setting to "public" and then hit post. That requires way more than just a 'spur of the moment' IMO

 

EDIT: ... except that post's privacy setting is on "friends only". Just re-checked. Sorry. Well then I guess assuming people on this guy's friend list all live near him, he had that one horrible neighbor who leaked the post to the rest of the globe. I still find it inappropriate though... even if his target audience isn't "the world" like I originally suggested, he's still dragging random outsiders into the story to punish the dogs' owner along with him

 

Oh I was furious for days after dropping the carcasses off, helping my neighbor get the goat carcass buried and formula made for the orphaned kid goat, shoveling the bloody soil out of the pasture to settle the herd and talking to the sheriff. If Facebook had been around back then I may well have posted about it, though it's hard to say for sure. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

Everyone around here knew about the idiots and their chows. The dogs were suspected of mauling but not killing a cow and chasing horses through a fence. By dropping the dogs at the drive, everyone who drove past knew someone had finally killed the dogs and it didn't take long for word to spread regarding who fired the shots. Rural areas are notoroius for speed-of-light spread of news.

 

I can't say with any degree of authority what the man's intent was when he made the post. All I can say for certain is what I've seen and experienced for all but ten years of my life (those years spent living in a large city).  In lieu of Facebook, our area used the telephone, the mailman and lines at the general store to pass news and everyone knew about the idiots and their chows. Public humiliation took a different route back then but I think it's been a phenomenon since the founding of Ur.

 

Perhaps the fireman did experience glee at finally stopping the dogs harassing and ultimately killing his livestock. I don't know. But I can't fault him for shooting the dogs. I would've done the same thing to a dog killing my chickens or chasing my horse through the fence. I certainly would've shot the dogs that tried to kill my child had I a gun at that time. I would have felt pity for the dogs because I know how they ended up there and why they were doing it, but I'd have pulled the trigger nonetheless because my horse, chickens and especially child are more important to me than feral/semi-feral dogs. If I could locate the idiots who cause the feral dog situation I'd happily throw an Eastern Diamondback into each one's bed to give them a taste of what they do to us.

 

Ultimately, IMO, the dogs' owners/abandoners are the villains in these events. They deserve the punishment.

[elenamarie]

First of all: I'm going to have to disagree with your "dog slaughters livestock = teller stealing money" analogy as no one would be shooting a teller who steals from them...

 

And second of all: I mentioned when I first posted this story that the man who shot the dogs had a right to due so because they were on his property and near his livestock, so there is no disagreement with what you are saying. I was simply posting this story because it is another reminder that pet owners need to be more diligent in keeping their pets contained and not free to roam so that situations like this can be avoided if possible.

 

The shooting of these dogs might have been warranted, but the boasting display on social media was not and was done in bad taste.

 

I meant the comparison simply on economic grounds, not a metaphor for the entire event. Most city people I know think a dead cow is no big deal, but it's a huge loss to those who earn their living breeding, raising and selling livestock.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with you in particular, only the general sentiment of the thread. Sorry for not specifying that.

 

As I wrote earlier, I haven't read his posting and cannot say with any degree of authority what his purpose and/or intent in the post were. I can only speak to what I've lived and I've seen this same thing happen dozens of times over the past two decades. It's always the same source--stupid humans who behave abominably and should never own a canine.

[mydiamond]

... and on that note, let's agree to disagree. I do see this news as an example of cultural conflict, and I'm glad that we've laid out both sides for all to see. Point is that there's more than meets the eye into this.

[elenamarie]

... and on that note, let's agree to disagree. I do see this news as an example of cultural conflict, and I'm glad that we've laid out both sides for all to see. Point is that there's more than meets the eye into this.

 

Agreed. And I'm always thankful when we can disagree amiably.

[SnowDogLove]

Actually the whole point of this post was to remind those who think dogs can run free without harm are indeed, wrong.   

[elenamarie]

Actually the whole point of this post was to remind those who think dogs can run free without harm are indeed, wrong.   

 

Yes, I was aware of that. I was responding to others who took a different tack. Sorry for the confusion.