Zrd Is Back , Please Help!

[Nikknoo]

Hello

So Ghost has just turned a year- my, how time has flown!! When we got her back in June she had Zrd with missing fur & redness around her eyes, noes & mouth & paws. We got her on 8mg of zinc & it started to improve after 10 days. She was doing so well but 2 weeks ago I noticed that her mask around her eyes was starting to loose fur & looked pink, then her mouth underneath was black & pink & her front paws pink with missing fur patches. It's back ?

I upped her zinc 3 days ago to 15mg & got evening primrose oil as I saw someone on fb used it & it worked. I'm not sure how much to give her thou. & would really really appreciate any advice to clear it up before it gets too bad. She had some food intolerances like chicken & rice so we've got her on fish based kibble.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance xx

[Emma]

It sounds like you're already trying everything I can think of.  I'll tag Jase for you as he knows much more than I about things like this and might have a few ideas up his sleeve that could help.   

[Sarah]

Val had a similar problem with her Myshka - have tagged her for you she may have some ideas xx 

[Jase]

Sorry to hear of the problems,

 

There are a few things that you can add to the diet to help. 

 

Kelp is an excellent source of zinc that is more bioavailable to the dog.

 

Turmeric powder (preferably organic) - half a teaspoon to food daily. Plus fish oils with vitamin E.

 

Swabbing the areas with Calendula tea will take away the redness and relieve the itching very quickly.

 

A good multi strain probiotic will also help with the immune system and the ability self regulate better.

 

If you can get the calendula tea I will give you some instructions on its use. 

 

Wishing you all the best.

[NOBELHOWLUC49]

Hi Nikki.  Poor little ghost.... Bless she is such a sweet little thing.... I hope you soon have this back under control and hopefully see you down the park soon...

[Val (Zebedee)]

Nikki, most of the time, there is something that triggers the ZRD. By process of elimination (and around 18 months of torment & useless vets), I realised it was the amount of bone in her meal, so I cut down on the chicken carcasses & wings & upped her intake of heart, liver, kidney, etc. Not massively as too much is bad too. Since then, she has had one flare up in around 4-5 years. I no longer give zinc supplements as I watch her diet but Zinc can be given as a daily oral supplement eg zinc gluconate (10 mg/kg/day orally)

 

When Myshka suffered with hers, vets knew next to nothing about ZRD, They took skin scrapes and biopsies to determine what it wasn't (mange, etc) but could not confirm what it was and therefore had no idea how to help her. Thankfully, as northern breeds are becoming more popular as pets, some vets are doing their homework and know a bit about this illness.

 

Does Ghost eat raw at all?

[Nikknoo]

Hi, Thank you so much for all your wonderful responses.

Val, No, Ghost does not eat raw, we did try it but she wasn't interested. She has a potato & salmon kibble & I put that with a brown rice & lamb or fish wet food mix.

She can't eat chicken & rice as she has a very sensitive tummy - I'm trying to recollect when it started again & I have a feeling it was around the similar time as we started her on the fourth glade wet food, I thought brown rice would be better then white, but maybe it's that?!- as you said its a pain staking process of elimination!

We have been lucky with our vet, he's a young lad and really enthuastic, we had seen him about Ghost when we first got her and he thought her skin problems were all mange, but a week later he called me out of the blue and said he's been doing research and is sure it was zrd, & to get her on zinc, which worked brilliantly and although it's coming back it's not half as bad as what it was.

Jase - your suggestions are brilliant, thank you. I'm going to research the calendula tea and try to order some tonight I'll let you know when I've got my hands on it! I think I have seen kelp treats in my local pet store so I'll pick some of them up tomorrow too.

- I feel a bit more positive now, I hate seeing her loose her fur just as the weather turns!!

Really thankful for your advice, I'll keep you guys updated xxx

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[Nikknoo]

Hi Jase, would this item be ok?

Copied from ebay:-

Premium Wild Harvested Calendula Petals

Latin name: Calendula officinalis

Country of Origin: Egypt

Culinary Grade

Long shelf Life

Dried Flower Petals

Comes in a resealable polythene pouch to keep it fresh

It seems to be yellow dried flower petals, does that sound right?

[emoji15]

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[Jase]

Yes that sounds fine. Is that available locally or do you need to order it in? 

 

This one from a UK site looks really good but it says out of stock   http://villedefleurs.com/product/100-organic-calendula-marigold-tea-anti-inflammatory-great-skin-wash-hair-rinse-for-red-heads/

 

What I like about this one is that it has whole flowers and states organic. The person I get mine from states that organic has a stronger amount of active ingredients. I did notice a brighter and fresher smell from the organic stuff, but the stuff you mention sounds good, I don't think it is very expensive anyway so I would get the one you describe if it is available fast and then maybe look further to see if you can get organic, a couple of quid and it lasts a long time.

 

Also regarding the kelp, you should be able to source the powder at a health food shop. Kelp (Atlantic) Ascophyllum nodosum. It is also worth noting that this is what is used in the very very expensive dental product for dogs called plaque off. You can buy the same kelp powder from health food suppliers at a fraction of the cost of this product 

[Nikknoo]

That's fantastic, thank you. I've just placed the order for the calendula which should be here in the early part of next week. I have a health food store near by which I'll visit in Sunday for the kelp, & I got dried fish treats for her that are high in omega 3 & thankfully she seems to like!!

I'll be in touch Jase when the Stuff arrives [emoji4]

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[Nikknoo]

Hi,

so Ghosts medication has finally arrived (we had a local post strike this week so there was a flipping delay, grrrr!)

I have put 5ml of the kelp powder in her dinner kibble ready for later (as she's eating at doggy day care today!) and I have the calendula petals in hand.

Jase, how can I make the calendula into a substance to treat her paws and face?

Thank you - oh, I've included a picture too!!! [emoji4]

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[Jase]

Great, It is really very easy, but I will give you quite a bit of info incase you are concerned about any of it.

 

Use approximately 1 teaspoon of the petals per 250ml of boning water to make up the tea. Make up a bigger brew if you are going to do an all over rinse. Or smaller if you are just going to swab the eyes. This doesn't need to be exact.

 

So add boiling water to leaves/petals and leave to steep until cool. Strain out the spent petals and keep some to add to food. My dog loves it but don't worry if she won't eat it, it is not the main thing and really just a little boost. 

 

If you are swabbing around the eyes, use something link a cotton ball or pad, use a separate swab for each eye. It doesn't matter if it gets in the eyes as it is a very effective treatment for minor eye conditions like conjunctivitis. With eyes it is best to make a small fresh brew each time.

 

With the feet I would make up around 500ml and put the cool tea in an old sauce squeeze bottle or a bike drink bottle. It is then easy to squeeze directly on the affected areas. I do this method if I am giving an all over rinse as you can push the nozzle into the undercoat to make sure it gets to the skin. The best thing is to just let it dry or dab with a towel to remove excess. 

 

You can use this as frequent as 4 times a day, but may only need to once or twice. The brew for the body will last a couple of days. 

 

I would use the full rinse instead of any shampoo, it won't rob the skin of oils, smells good together with all of the medicinal qualities. Don't rinse with water afterwards, the tea is all you use. I would only do the full wash once and then spot treat the areas so you don't have a constantly wet dog. Obviously you can use it more often when treating itches and inflamed skin though. So you just need to see how you go. If you are confident that you are not going to have a wet dog for long periods of time you can use very frequently while the symptoms persist.

 

I hope this info helps and I wish Ghost a speedy recovery. Please remember that I am not a vet or specialist, I am sure that the tea will relieve quite a bit of redness and discomfort but it would be good to get to the route cause at some stage. I believe that you can get a hair sample tested which will show what minerals are missing and what are being overdosed so maybe think about this. Zinc can be toxic if overdone. A specialist or holistic vet may be very helpful with this going forward.

 

Please do not hesitate to ask me any questions about the things I have mentioned. 

[Nikknoo]

So... Ghost is looking worse, she's now licking her 'bits' continuously untill their red raw, her eye fur is missing & the skin sore all down her nose and lower lip.

How long does it take for the kelp powder to start working? I have bathed her eyes & paws in the tea mix once but will do it again tomorrow. Her little paws are looking so sore, I'm worried that I can't find her trigger for the return of the zrd!?! Don't fancy a trip to the vet as they aren't very well informed on this topic!

?

[Jase]

Using the tea once is not going to be enough right now, keep swabbing or spraying the bits she is licking and the eye area, multiple (4) times a day. 

 

Have you stopped the zinc supplements you were using before? Are you giving fish oil ? I would expect the kelp to take around a week to before you start seeing

any improvement from supplements . 

 

If you don't see any improvement from the tea over the next two days I would seriously be looking for a better vet in your area, call around and find someone who knows about ZRD, a holistic vet is really worth considering. 

 

I hope things improve soon, it must be a very stressful time.

[Nikknoo]

Hey there, just a quick update. Ghost isn't getting any better, even with the kelp & calendula tea it seems to be getting worse. She seems a little down too, not sure if that's what's making it worse or why she's feeling grumpy!!?

I think I'm gonna check out holistic vets tomorrow & if I can't find a local one I will have to take her to my normal vet.

Thanks for all the advice thou,bat least I know I(or we!) have done all I can to try & help her first. I'll update when I have better news!!

[Jase]

Geez, I am sorry to hear that things are worse 

 

If you can't find a holistic vet then ring around and try and find a vet with some experience with ZRD as you mentioned your current vet was little help before.

[Ohio4husky]

Hello. I'm completely new here and zrd was mentioned in a thread i had started ( was something I'd never even heard of!). So helpful this site's been already.

So i was doing some studying of this zrd. It stated calcium bonds to zinc which means dogs can't utilize it? Perhaps you could see how much calcium is in her diet to reduce it? It's all new to me but thought maybe it might provide some help for you.

Quote as follows: . If a food contains more than 1.5%-2% calcium, a zinc supplement is recommended, especially during the fall/winter months

Link: http://iberiansiberian.blog.com/2011/06/22/northern-breeds-and-zinc-deficiency-important/

Just trying to help. Poor furbaby. Hope you are able to figure it out. Best of luck to you!