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Elyse

Official Raw Feeding Thread

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Thanks for your reply, Andy.

I am just a bit worried because she is still a puppy, and doesn't seem to realise that she is biting too hard on Charly. We go to dog park and she plays nicely with other dogs, and she knows when to back off when older dogs growl at her. But she seems to target on Charly knowing his soft characters, and never take him seriously.  The dogs get processed rabbit ears (with fur on) and to be frank, our Charly flappy ears are just as soft :-)

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I feed prey model raw but I have never fed animals whole with fur or feathers on them, the only animal I feed whole is fish. If I lived somewhere where there were chickens and rabbits running around and I fed the animal completely whole, then I think it would be easier for the dog to see them as a meal. Having said that my boys prey drive is pretty high, so I have no doubt he would try and catch a chicken or rabbit given half a chance. 

 

So my take on it is;

 

1) No prey model raw doesn't increase prey drive and, 

2) A Husky is certainly smart enough to recognise a dead whole animal with fur or feathers and the live one as being the same potential meal.

 

I would certainly feed whole animals if I could get them small enough for a meal, the closest I can get is whole spatchcock but that gets a bit expensive, So I get small chickens and split them down the middle and feed a half.

 

Oh, and Welcome to the Forum Jen, please post and introduction in the intro section as there will be lots of people who would like to meet you who may not read the raw thread.

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Hi Jase,

thanks for your reply. I wasn't sure about my worries but I think your answers clarify them. You are right Molly is definitely smart enough to connect the dots. At 10 weeks old she was already bringing home dead mole and mouse! They probably were killed by neighbour's cat but she was over the moon playing with the dead mouse! That's one reason I wanted to give her some whole food along with her ground raw food, to let her work on the food and be tired from it, instead of keep bringing home the wild.. The other reason I started with day old chick is that she is a gulper, once I gave Charly an oxtail chunk Molly got soooo excited she almost swallow the whole thing. So I wanted to give her something small enough for her to learn to crunch/chew,  and safe enough that if she swallow it, it wont be a problem. I'll give her the whole quails in 2 weeks time, these are about 3-4 times bigger than the day old chick, I think she will already develop the habit to crunch/chew before swallow. Luckily these are without feathers on. 

I think I'll have to save the fur-on rabbit ears for Charly when Molly is not around. Molly is too young to learn to control her bite and she might find Charly's flappy ears as interesting as the soft rabbit ears.

I am lucky enough that here in the Netherlands there are plenty of raw options. Both dogs are on grounded raw which we are happy with, it is easy and less messy, and we also can get whole prey easily at a low cost which I give them as extra/substitute for teeth cleaning and also for chew satisfaction. We get the whole prey from Kiezerbrink which provide for market in UK and also around Benelux.

 

Oh funny that Andy mentioned about the string on quail. We actually do play with the flirt pole, as it is Charly's favourite game, and Molly loves it too. But I've been very reserved since Molly as I don't want to encourage her to chase the small animals like cats or squirrels on the street.

 

I'll go to the intro section and introduce myself. I am sure there will be more posts from me as Molly is such a smart puppy, we are going to need more advises here and there.

 

cheers,

Jen

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Hi Jen,

 

I understand what you mean, it is a fine line between, small bits so they don't choke and large enough to chew. All of us here know how smart Huskies are, they also have an amazing survival instinct so my opinion is that you don't need to be overly concerned about the size of the pieces you give. There is no doubt they can get big pieces in without much problem  :D  I don't want to casually say -'eh, don't worry about it, it will be all fine' as I would never forgive myself if one of you dogs choked. I think it always a good policy to closely watch how they go with pieces of various sized meat and bones for a while until you are confident they are fine.

 

I never feed ground up meat to my boy these days as I simply prefer to use pieces on the bone and pieces of organs as it takes a bit longer to consume (not much longer though LOL)

 

I feed, Kangaroo tail, beef neck, chuck steak, beef ribs, lamb flaps, lamb necks, half or quarter chicken depending on how big it is. Whole fish, fish heads, green tripe, heart, kidneys, liver, sometimes turkey pieces.. Duck and rabbit are a bit expensive but if I can get it cheap I will. Am planning on Crocodile for his birthday  :lol:

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Hi Jase,

You are right. Especially Molly is still young and she doesn't trust me like Charly does. that is if I approach her she would think I want to take her food and quickly swallow it. At times she simply swallow her food so that she could go help Charly with his. I don't underestimate the danger of choking either, but with her I am more worried about internal obstruction. Day old chick is small and soft and bones are tiny and probably soft too. It is nice to see she chews it though.

 

We feed prepackaged ground up meat because there are quite a few brands here so it is convenient. I've trie the barf feeding because at one point Charly was losing interest with the ground up meat. I've even invested a new freezer, but Charly being the picky eater lost interest very soon (too much work for him) so I ended up with lot of chunky organ. Also with his pickiness, he had problem with too hard/too soft stool. So in the end we turned back to the prepackaged meat, it is just easier with the right proportion of bone/meat and I could finally stop doubting myself if I have got that right. Also the sausage shape packaging makes more room in the freezer :-)

For Molly I just put the ground meat in a kong and let her work on it. This way charly can enjoy his food at his slow pace.

 

I should have know from your choice of feeding that you are from down under :-) I lived in Sydney for 3 years but didn't have a dog then.

 

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We feed whole prey and it does not make ours more likely to go after anything. The shiba goes after chickens because she accidentally was in a position to kill some once. It's not so much that she sees them as food, although she will eat any she kills, but that they were just so fun to chase down and fulfilled her prey drive.

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Thanks, Akane!

On the side note, I am new with husky but is it right to say they are very cat like? I saw Molly played with a dead mouse she found in the garden. Also she doesn't make any sound walking around the house. My other dog you can hear him from the other end of the house :-)

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Hi guys, I want to start mine on RAW diet. What is the best way to introduce it. Mix with her usual food? Or straight in with it. She has a good taste for chicken liver. But what would be the best thing to start on.

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im thinking of giving my 2 some mince can that be given raw or is it best to boil it first??

 

 

Definitely raw unless there is a particular medical reason that requires cooking beforehand. Best bet is to freeze your meal portions for a week or so before feeding, but the reality is if you are confident of the source and you do regular worming there is little need for the freezing. I do however freeze all of Ronins raw food. Sometimes I will feed frozen bones as well as it takes a bit longer to consume. Right this very second Ronin is gnawing away on a piece of frozen beef neck  :D

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Jase. Im presuming you de frost it first? Lol

 

I don't defrost the bones, chicken necks or chicken wings. I don't really use mince much any more as I prefer whole chunks of meat and organs etc, but I would probably defrost it and I did when Ronin was on mixed. I have on occasions fed the whole meal frozen as it takes a bit longer to consume, and Ronin is such a food fiend that frozen meat won't deter him at all  :D

 

However, in general you would defrost it. 

 

I made up a stack of brekky meals the other day, I bought a 4 kg of cheap beef, 300g of liver, 300g of kidney, and mixed it all together, I then added around 10 teaspoons of turmeric, 10 teaspoons of kelp, and 10 teaspoons of flax meal and mixed it all up. I then grabbed a packet of small freezer bags, weighed approximately 250g of the mix, popped it in a bag and squashed it into a thick patty. Once the first was done I had a rough idea of the handful I needed so proceeded to bag up the rest. I feed this along with a couple of chicken necks or a chicken wing and that is brekky.  :D

 

You don't need to add the extra stuff that I do as all of what he needs is in the meat, organs and bones - but I just like to  :D

 

Dinner, is normally half a very small chicken (always bought on sale) with a little parcel of liver and kidney that I make up in meal size when I buy a bunch. Or a couple of smallish whole fish or other meats and organs I can buy cheaply.  I know it sounds pretty full on but it is actually very easy once you have done it a couple of times. 

 

You don't need to supply a balanced (meat, organ, liver, bone) meal every time, you just need to roughly follow the ratios over a week or so. So if you feed lots of meaty bones one day you may not want to give bones the next day. 

 

I should also add that Ronin gets around 750g of raw food per day, he is quite big but lean so this amount is probably more than most would need. Hopefully I will be able to cut back a bit when he has stopped growing. 

 

One other word of caution, if you feed just mince from the butcher in addition to kibble or on its own without and bone (chicken necks, wing etc) you will throw out the calcium: phosphorus ratio and this is not good. Mince is high in phosphorus and needs calcium from bones to create a good balance for correct growth. I know this sounds scary, but all you need is to roughly adhere to the basic 80:10:5:5 ratios over a week or so and also bear in mind that some dogs may require a bit more bone. 

 

It is quite easy to monitor by having a look at the poo  :D  Too hard generally means too much bone, too soft can mean too little bone or too much organs. If you go down this path you will notice the stools are smaller and will turn white in a few days, they also don't smell as strong as kibble-kucks  :D

 

Phew, that was meant to be a quick answer to a simple question  :lol:

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phew. Lol a lot in there i did give thor some boiled mince tonight as we were having it for t and did too much grrr so just took some out once it had boiled. He loved it lol.

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I have a question. My boy is 52-54 lbs yet he is leaner than i like. I want to go raw, have done my homework for suppliers etc, but i think the amount to feed is throwing me off vs how many times daily. I'd like him to be 60lbs.

What I've read says feed 2-3% of the weight I'd like him to be. At 2.5% of an ideal weight of 60lb it's 1.5 lbs food. Is that the weight for the entire day or per ration, and if so, how many rations per day?

I guess 1.5 lbs just doesn't sound like a lot to me when weighing meat/bone.

Secondly, I'd like to incorporate fish oil for support as well as vinegar. Vinegar has benefits but i read it can't be given daily as it inhibits absorption of other important minerals, so what's the standard? Ty so much:)

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There is some really great information in this thread. My wife and I have been seriously looking into a RAW diet for our boys lately.

 

I have read that it is a great idea to stop kibble and start the raw diet 8-12 hours later. That feeding nothing but chicken for two weeks, then introducing two other protiens and then liver slowly to test dialy amount and finally introducing the other organ meets.

 

I also found out that red meats are better than the white meats (i.e - chicken, turkey, etc) in terms of nutritional value for the dogs. Should I consider chicken as the primary protien and then add two others? or completely stray from chicken?

 

Also i know the general idea is 2% of adult weight per day, I have read that 2.5-3.5% is what you should eventually aim for; however, I know I have been reading that huskies dont really require as much food due to their metabolism as other dogs, and the 2.5-3.5% seems to be generic. Is that still the amount we would want to feed?

 

One more question, I know this seems to be full of them, should I base my % on the average weight for Sibes, or should I go closer to the weight of the parents? I believe they are a little larger than average, waiting for the offical weight form the breeder.

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Try local butchers. You can ask to buy fresh fish from fish shop. I started when she was 6 months she didn't like dry food!!!!

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I have a question, a while back my dog got some bad bacteria causing him Diarrhea. The Vet gave him antibiotics but it still persisted, the trainer we were using said to feed him raw chicken wings. Boom, worked like a charm, him stool became solid and the diarrhea was gone. I told my vet what happened and she said, not to give him them because he wont digest them and I would end up paying for a very expensive surgery which he might not live through. 

So I have read both the good and bad. This happened when he was 3months old. Hes now 6 months, i havent given him any raw chicken wings in two months. What do you guys think? Should i wait til he gets older or everyone once in a while or not at all? 

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I have a question, a while back my dog got some bad bacteria causing him Diarrhea. The Vet gave him antibiotics but it still persisted, the trainer we were using said to feed him raw chicken wings. Boom, worked like a charm, him stool became solid and the diarrhea was gone. I told my vet what happened and she said, not to give him them because he wont digest them and I would end up paying for a very expensive surgery which he might not live through. 

So I have read both the good and bad. This happened when he was 3months old. Hes now 6 months, i havent given him any raw chicken wings in two months. What do you guys think? Should i wait til he gets older or everyone once in a while or not at all? 

 

 

Every dog is different which is why blanket statements are never possible. If your dog chews them a bit to break them down then there won't be a problem. If your dog just swallows the whole thing then there is a risk of choking. If your dog is fed all raw, then the stomach acidy should deal with the soft bones of wings etc. Dogs fed mixed are less able to cope with bones. I would say the risk of choking is more likely than it causing a blockage which is what I think your vet is talking about - but having said that I think the risk is very low.

 

Hand feeding is a good way to check how the bones are being crunched. Frozen is also a good way to feed them as they are more likely to chew them for a bit longer.

 

I feed wings by themselves or attached to a half or quarter chicken (depending on the size of the chook) and have been doing it since Ronin was 14 weeks with wings, 7 months for fully raw.

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Every dog is different which is why blanket statements are never possible. If your dog chews them a bit to break them down then there won't be a problem. If your dog just swallows the whole thing then there is a risk of choking. If your dog is fed all raw, then the stomach acidy should deal with the soft bones of wings etc. Dogs fed mixed are less able to cope with bones. I would say the risk of choking is more likely than it causing a blockage which is what I think your vet is talking about - but having said that I think the risk is very low.

 

Hand feeding is a good way to check how the bones are being crunched. Frozen is also a good way to feed them as they are more likely to chew them for a bit longer.

 

I feed wings by themselves or attached to a half or quarter chicken (depending on the size of the chook) and have been doing it since Ronin was 14 weeks with wings, 7 months for fully raw.

 

He is like a vacuum. he barely chews, just swallows. I could break the wing down into a few parts but im not sure if i cut where the bone is at, it might get sharp and i dont want him to hurt himself. I served it as a whole piece before , he does chew on it but its mostly swallow. I do give him diatomaceous earth, not every day but most. I think that might help with breakdown, as he once ate 7 cupcakes, without any issues. 

 

I dont give him these things, he just a sneaky bastard. Oh, he also had wassabi without a flinch. Freakin' Huskies. Funny, so many other husky owners we have met, have said their dog is a picky eater. Funny, i have yet to find anything he doesnt like. And if he doesnt, i wouldnt know because if i go to try and get it, he will fight me over it and swallow it no matter what. 

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Well, you may have a dog that raw feeding is not suitable for. I have a few suggestions though...

 

1 Larger pieces will mean he has to break them down somewhat.

 

2. Hand feeding, hold the wing

 

3. Use chicken necks and cut them into small pieces

 

4. Grind up the bones and add to the meat and organs

 

Is he on fully raw? 

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Well, you may have a dog that raw feeding is not suitable for. I have a few suggestions though...

 

1 Larger pieces will mean he has to break them down somewhat.

 

2. Hand feeding, hold the wing

 

3. Use chicken necks and cut them into small pieces

 

4. Grind up the bones and add to the meat and organs

 

Is he on fully raw? 

 

 

No he is not fully raw. I feed him Purina Pro Plan Puppy. And use the Purina Pro Plan Sport as his training treats or i feed him Blue Mountain. There is a store by me that sells raw food (grounded up meat and bones) but it gets very expensive by the pound. I never tried fully raw diet, only the chicken wings when he had the diarrhea issue. Chicken wings and chicken necks/back are cheap and are good for them from what i read through this thread. I guess I dont want future digestive issues. 

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If you only need the wings and necks for diarrhoea issues then I think it would be best to find the cause rather than use the bones to fix it. I personally don't rate Purina highly at all. Maybe start a different thread away from the raw section to get more advice to the issues you are facing  :)

Edited by Jase

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I was looking into Primal RAW diet, to change my dog off the Purina Pro plan dog food. http://www.primalpetfoods.com I dont know if i will be able to make his food at this moment. I would like to in the long run, but at the moment I dont have a machine to grind up everything. What do you guys think? 

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