Official Raw Feeding Thread

[Elyse]

[Raw Feeding Threads #1-5 Merged by SolitaryHowl] [Original threads created by Sid_Wolf]

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Raw vs BARF... Whats the difference?



There are 2 variations of raw feeding, BARF and true Raw, both are similar but have a few differences. 



BARF can stand for 2 things, depending on who your talking to, some say it stands for Bones And Raw Food, others say it stands for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food, both are correct.

BARF involves feeding raw meat and bones, along with a mix of fruit and vegetables, and various suppliments, this is because BARF works on the idea of dogs being omnivores, and therefore needing vegetable matter.



True raw feeding is often called the 'prey model diet', it involves feeding the same raw meat and bones as is fed in BARF, however raw feeders dont feel the need to suppliment or feed vegetables, as raw works on the idea of dogs being carnivores, and therefore have no need for anything other than animal matter.



What feeding model is better?



Well that depends on your beliefs, do you believe dogs are omnivores? Or are they true carnivores? Are you confident that a true raw diet provides the nutrients your dog will need?



I personally do believe that dogs are carnivores, and I am confident in the diet I have came up with. I am a true raw feeder. 



Whichever you choose is good for your dog. Raw feeders, your dog isnt missing out on anything. BARF feeders, your dog isnt being harmed by the added extras.


But why feed raw when I could feed kibble?



I get asked this quite a bit, and its a good question. Why bother going to the hassle of working out a diet, weighing out all the different meats and preparing every meal? Kibble is quick, easy, convenient. You buy a bag, take it home, cut a corner off, stick a cup in it, and just shovel out a couple of cups every meal time, takes 2 minutes and your dog has food, 5 minutes and your dog's fed, easy, simple, done!



But that's the problem...



Kibble's a convenience food, it sells itself because its easy, manufactures know that hardly anyone is gunna bother to research the ingredients, hell, only about a third of people actually read the ingredients list, and how many of those people actually know what it means? Manufactures know that the majority of owners blindly trust them to have done the research, so we don't have to. 



But should we trust them?



Simply... No. Go and have a look at the ingredients list on the bag of kibble thats in the cupboard, what does it say? Meat & animal derivatives? Meat meal? Cereals? Corn? Wheat? Rice? Colourants? Flavours? EC permitted additives/preservatives? 



Whats the 1st 3 ingredients? I wonder how many people can say their ingredients lists states 3 different meats as the 1st 3??



What colour are the actual biscuits? Are they all one colour? Or is it a mix of browns, oranges, greens, maybe even yellows?



Here's a few things about kibble:



All the ingredients stated above should NOT be in dog food, some are unneccesary, some are even harmful. 



Do you know why cereals, corn, wheat and rice are used? They're fillers. Cheap, unnecessary fillers, dogs dont need any of these, in fact, corn and wheat are one of the main causes of allergic reactions in dogs. 



Meat should be very top of the ingredients list, preferably the 1st 3 ingredients, if the 1st ingredients are any of the ones listed above, stay away. 



Did you know that there are over 500 EC permitted additives, colours, flavours and preservatives? Some of these are known to be cancer causing, yet they are allowed to be used. Companies don't have to tell you how many or what ones are in their foods, just that they contain them. 



Worrying isn't it?



So why is raw better?



There's many reasons why raw is better...



You know exactly what is going into your dog: meat, bone and offal. Nothing that isnt needed, your not paying for fillers!



It's natural. Dogs are carnivores, they're designed to eat meat. Look at your dogs teeth, those large canines, they're there to rip and tear at skin and meat, those molars at the back, for crunching and grinding bone. And thats just what you can see, his guts are full of digestive enzymes 10x stronger than ours, to kill bacteria and disease, his intestinal tract is shorter than ours, so that any remaining bacteria doesn't have time to affect him. Even his paws, legs, eye and ear set, his sense of smell... All make him fit to be a hunter, designed to kill and eat animals, meat.



So how about it?



Give raw a go, and if you don't fancy it, take a good look into the various kibbles avaliable, there are good ones out there, you just have to look.




So what changes do you notice when feeding raw? And why do they happen?



Well there are quite a few changes you'll probably notice when you start feeding raw, I've noticed loads since Kira has been raw fed, all good changes, can't say any changes have been for the worse 



Here's a few of the changes you might notice:



Energy levels

Dogs tend to calm down a lot when they are changed from a kibble to raw food, many dogs are hyper when fed a kibble diet, but this tends to stop once their diet is changed, energy levels seem to be more consistant rather than mad moments followed by sleep. 

This change is due to the lack of additives in raw food, kibbles tend to be full of attitives, flavours and colours, think about children eating a tube of sweets filled with E numbers and additives, then think of the same child fed fruit instead, the principle is the same in dogs.


Kira is quite happy to spend most of the day like this, but will still happily jump up for a walk or if I initiate playtime, compared to when she was fed kibble and was quite a handful. Of course, this goes hand in hand with exercise.



Concentration levels

Dogs fed on raw generally do much better in training than those fed kibble, they are able to concentrate for longer, enabling your training sessions to be longer, they stay more focused, which means less stress for you (and in turn, the dog), and they seem to understand the concept of what you want them to do quicker, which makes the dog less stressed and more willing to comply.

Again, this is due to the lack of fillers, additives and flavours in raw food. Try eating Macdonalds every meal for a week, then see how well you perform at work/school/college, compared to if you were eating healthy, well balanced meals.


Dental hygiene

We've all heard about bones cleaning dogs teeth, but is it true?? Simply... Yes. When kibble is chewed/crunched little bits get stuck around the base of the teeth and in between them, the same happens with wet food. This collected food is a breeding ground for bacteria, which leads to tooth decay and gum disease, which in turn leads to large vet bills which could easily be avoided.

Dogs fed raw food have better oral health because there are less little bits to get stuck in between the teeth, and when the dog crunches on the bones it scrapes away the plaque from around the bottom of the teeth. 

Kira has never had her teeth brushed, ever, I'll try and get a picture later 


Reduced risk of bloat

Dogs fed raw food are at much less risk of gastric torsion than those who are fed a kibble diet. All dogs are at risk of gastric torsion, however large deep chested breed (such as great danes) are more at risk. 

Raw fed dogs are less at risk because unlike kibble, raw food doesnt expand in the stomach. Kibble when it comes into contact with the gastric juices, expands (much like if you soak it in water), and also releases gases, both of these things cause the stomach to flip, blocking both the entrance and the exit of the stomach, so the gases and food inside the stomach can't escape.



Reduced risk of joint and bone problems

There is a reducted risk of joint and bone problems when dogs are fed raw from early on in life. There is a reduced risk of hip and elbow displacia and bones and joints are stronger and better formed, however this is only reduced if the dog is brought up on raw food from an early life stage (preferably weaning).

The risk is reduced because the dog grows at a much more appropriate rate than if it were fed kibble. The calcium:protein ratio is much more appropriate in a raw diet than in a kibble diet, so pups don't tend to go through growth sputs, which is common in kibble fed dogs.


This is just a short list of some of the advantages of a raw diet, there are many more.

How do you go about feeding a raw diet?



hmm well I guess this would be useful to know...  lets start with how to work out your daily feeding amount.



Its really easy really, all dogs are fed the same, regardless of age, sex and weight. You always start off feeding 2% of the ideal adult weight, the only time this changes is for working sibes, when you feed 3%.



So for a female sibe puppy, you work out the amount using an average adult weight, lets say 21Kg. You would work out the 2% of 21Kg.

21kg / 100 x 2 = 0.42kg

convert it into grams:

0.42kg x 100 = 420g

There you have your daily allowance, split that amount into however many meals you want to feed.



Do not only go on the average weight for the breed though, say you have a female sibe who is 19kg, or 26kg, if your sibe carries the weight well, has good coverage and condition, feed according to that weight. 



Also, the starting weight is just that, a starting weight. If your dog looses condition, gains or looses too much weight etc, adjust amounts accordingly. 



How do I make sure the diet is balanced?



Raw feeders generally follow the 80:10:5:5 ratio, which means:



80% meat, 10% bone (within the meat), 5% liver, and 5% other offal



You dont have to balance the diet out like this every day, try to balance it out over 1-2 weeks 



What sort of things do I feed?

Variety is the spice of life   To make the diet both interesting and healthy, try to give as diverse a range of meats as possible 



Meat:

Chicken (wings, legs, quarters)

Turkey (wings, legs, necks)

Lamb (breast, neck)

Pork (hocks, shoulders, heads)

Oxtail

Heart (muscle meat, NOT offal)

Mince meats (but you cant just feed minced meats)



Offal:

Kidney

Lung

Intestines

Pig pluck

Tripe

Liver



Bone should always be fed within the meat, the above cuts of meat (excluding heart and minced meats) are cuts which contain bone. 

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[The following feeding guide is by Ice and Cripton]

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Puppies


Puppies as young as 3 weeks can eat raw food >> some breeders even wean their pups straight onto raw food, however if your puppy is on a complete food the transition must be made slowly. Some people always keep their dogs on a dry complete food whilst also adding raw, for example I feed kibble in the morning and raw in the evening. 

Safe raw meats for your young puppy:

-Chicken >> the best meat to start with, it’s gentle on the digestion and your puppy will hugely benefit from what chicken has to offer. The best thing is to feed them:

-Chicken legs >> 

-Chicken wings >> the bones are nice and chewy and are great for cleaning the teeth

-Chicken necks 



I would always highly recommend the first raw meat your puppy is introduced to is chicken. Then other birds like Turkey. Red meat like Lamb and Beef is a lot richer and can upset the stomach if not introduced slowly.

When Alaska was little I fed her James Wellbeloved for 2 weeks, as this is what the breeders gave her. It is advised to stick to the pup’s diet for at least 1 week before you change it. Then I gave her a little bit of sliced chicken breast with her kibble. It is debatable whether or not to give a young puppy raw bones, I decided to be on the safe side I would wait until she was 4 months before giving her bones, by then she had a few more adult teeth and had ample jaw strength and chewed her food adequately. 

So here’s my recommended puppy chart:



8-12 weeks, keep them on a puppy complete food, little puppies often have fragile digestive systems and can often get the runs to something they’ve picked up, so it’s best they are on a dry complete food getting all the nutrients. 



12- 14 weeks, slowly incorporate some boneless raw chicken to their meals, adding only small amounts and more kibble, do this slowly for about 1 week >> however sometimes it can take two weeks depending on the puppy. 



16- 18 weeks, the puppy can have soft, chewy chicken bones, the best I find at this stage are chicken wings, legs and necks >>> they’ll love them too



Until my two were 6 months I fed only chicken and turkey, when they turned 6 months I moved onto richer meats like lamb, beef and duck. I even introduced a few organs:



-Lamb

-cuts

-neck

-the fatty bits of lamb the butcher sells

-minced lamb

-lamb shanks 



-Beef

-cuts

-slices

-neck

-tongue



The organs I fed where heart



-chicken heart 

-turkey heart 

-lambs heart 



I did feed liver once and it was a cow liver and it proved to be way too rich for my two and they had terrible runs for 3 days! >> I was told lamb and chicken liver where less concentrated. But all puppies are different, you may find heart is too rich and you are just fine with liver, a little experimentation is all it takes, however make sure you feed in moderation just in case! You can be the judge, if you puppy has a stomach of a gladiator and can consume all, you may be able to speed up the process, luckily my two have taken very well to raw feeding.

Now at 11 months they have moved onto whole carcasses:



-Whole baby chicken with skin carcass 

-Whole rabbit carcass 

-Whole chicken carcass 

-Whole baby turkey carcass 

-Whole baby duck



They can also have bigger chunks of lamb, Like the legs, they can have half a leg which lasts them for ages, it really cleans their teeth too



Fish, Sibes love it! Other breeds can be a bit fussy when it comes to fish but luckily sibes can’t get enough of it. It’s such a rich source of vital fatty acids, essential oils, and omega3, and 6.


Fish:

-Red snapper

-Trout 

-Salmon 

-Tuna

-Mackerel

-Sardines 

-Kippers 



And there are so many others, if you go to your Fish mongers, they will have such a huge selection, they can eat it tinned or fresh, my two get both! 


The other part of raw feeding is the veggies and fruit that you can add, they don’t need tons of veggies but even wolves in the wild would snack on berries and plants and son on. I feed 80% raw and 20% veggies and fruit.

Veggies to feed >> And any other veggies you can think of:

-Carrots

-Peas

-Broccoli 

-Spinach

-Cauliflower

-Sprouts 

-Plantain



- I tend to stay away from corn as it seems to go straight through them!



Some people cook them and some feed them raw, for me it depends on their meal, but if I do steam them I get the veggie juice at the bottom, wait for it to cool and add it to their food, as this is actually the best part. Some dogs can be a bit fussy if the raw veggies are too hard to eat, so you can blend them to make it easier for them, or semi steam them so there still crunchy. 



Fruits:

-Apple

-Melon 

-Banana

-Tomato 



I always make sure the pips and seeds are removed before serving, they tent to go straight through them however can remain in the gut for a long time, so best to remove them. 

Here’s is just one of my two’s regimes for the day



1-3pm (I serve it anytime between 1 and 3, and rarely the same time everyday)

3 cups of James Wellbeloved Turkey puppy food



6-9pm they will either get a block of tripe each and then a few chicken legs, or a lambs shank each and some turkey necks.



I buy the block of frozen tripe at my local pet shop, they also do, rabbit, lamb, chicken, and chicken and tripe. There cheap, easy to defrost, convenient and healthy for your dogs. 



Another thing you can do is prepare future meals and freeze them. I buy minced lamb and chicken, blend some veggies and fruit and mix it up and freeze it into portions. They love it and it is so easy to do. 



My Five Top Tips:

1) I add natural bio yogurt to there meals once in a while or if they puke or a re sick. It lines the stomach and settles it, and is generally good for them.

2) I add one raw egg to each of their meals once a week, does wonders for their coat, is a great source of calcium and they love it

3) I add extra virgin, cold pressed Olive oil, for the fatty acids and essential oils

4) I give them I garlic capsule every 2 days, it’s good for them and repels fleas (although I still give them their frontline  ) 

5) I give them a cod-live oil capsule everyday 



Hope this helps >>



http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

heres a usefull site has all the questions and answers and even goes into depth about why veggies should be ground up. also has a body weight calc to find how much raw meat and veggies you should feed

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[Andy - Why you shouldn't feed RAW and kibble together]
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Because it gives them the runs.

 

This is from an article on BARF (Bones and RAW food) 

 

Combining a raw diet with kibble is a hard combination for pets to digest.

This is because the digestive time frame of each diet is different.

As such, you confuse the pancreas when generating the right combination of digestive enzymes.

This often results in gastrointestinal upset (mainly diarrhea and vomiting)

 

 

Always allow around 12 hours separation between feeding RAW and Kibble

For example. 

Kibble for the morning feed and RAW in the evening.

 
 

[Elyse]

RAW SUPPLIERS (UK) [Original thread by Shadow-Kodah-Drako]

 

Delivering to all or most of UK

 

• Basils dog food - http://basilsdogfood.co.uk - UK and Eire
• Berriewood Pet Supplie - www.berriewoodwholesale.co.uk Block mince nationally full range local to Halstead, Essex
• Durham Animal Feeds - http://www.daf-petfood.co.uk - country wide delivery
• Honeys Real Dog food - http://honeysrealdogfood.com
• Landywoods - www.landywoods.co.uk - most of the country but not Scotland
• Manifold Valley Meats - www.manifoldvalleymeats.co.uk - Nationwide next day delivery £10
• Natural Instinct - www.naturalinstinct.com - mainland UK
• Nurturing by Nature - www.nurturingbynature.co.uk - most of country £6.99/20kg
• Perfect pet food - www.barfpetfoods.co.uk - Nationwide delivery £9.99
• Prize Choice - http://prizechoice.co.uk - Nationwide delivery excluding a few areas
• Raw2Paw - http://www.raw2paw.co.uk - (DAF, Natural Instinct and Free Range distributor) Nationwide delivery using courier as well as deliveries to the South West, South East, Midlands and South Wales with own van.
• Raw to go (DAF distributor) http://rawtogo.co.uk â€“ most of country, surcharges for some of Scotland
• Springfield Poultry www.springfieldpoultry.co.uk - Nationwide delivery £10
• They love it www.theyloveit.co.uk Nationwide next day delivery. £6.00/20kg
• Woldsway - http://www.woldsway.co.uk - Nationwide with varying delivery prices
• Wolf tucker - http://www.wolftucker.co.uk/adult/ - UK except some of Scotland

.

Delivering to specific areas

 

• Dundee Petfood - www.dundeepetfood.co.uk - free delivery in Dundee, delivers to Fife and Grampian
• Muddypawz - www.muddypawz.co.uk - Forres, Scotland - Varying delivery rates
• Goody 4 Paws - www.goody4paws â€“ Radcliffe, Manchester
• Clearaday pets - http://www.cleardaypets.co.uk/ - delivery in the Merseyside area
• Nixon's Farm Shop in Heald Green - www.nixonsfarmshop.co.uk - Heald Green, Cheshire
• Jays Animal Feeds - www.jaysanimalfeeds.co.uk - Doncaster
• Lincs pets - http://lincspets.co.uk - Nottingham, Lincolnshire, Derby, Humber etc
• Knight Pet Supplies Ltd http://www.knightpetsupplies.co.uk - delivery in Birmingham areas only
• Martins Meats - http://www.martinsmeats.com - Free local delivery Cheltenham, Gloucestershire & area
• Cymrag blaidd pets - http://cymraegblaidd.com - delivery in North and Mid Wales
• TPMS - http://www.tpms.co.uk - Weekly Deliveries in the Midlands,West Country and South Wales
• Albion Meat Product http://www.albionmeatproducts.co.uk - Southern & Central England
• Dog food company - http://www.thedogfoodcompany.co.uk - Central and Southern England (except London)
• Naturally Healthy Dogs[NHD]- www.naturallyhealthydogs.co.uk DAF Distributor in Royston, Herts. Delivers up to 45-50 miles by appointment
• Mobile pet foods - http://www.mobilepetfoods.co.uk - London and South East
• Davids Doggie Dinners - www.davidsdoggiedinners.co.uk - DAF and Natural Instinct supplier in Gillingham - Kent, Essex, Sussex and Surrey

[Patrick Marino]

This answers a lot of questions I had . My Siberian husky stole a dish of chicken bones one night off my dish and I thought they might hurt him when he swallowed them so I looked in his poop the next couple of days and found nothing. Lol

I am feeding him Trail of The Wild right now he is a year old. Any kibble I give him he does not like but if I mix in chunks of meat like beef he eats it and gets diarrhea . Isn't it a lot more expensive to feed him a raw diet ? And is everything on the lists given to him raw ? And how do you store all this raw meat ? Freezer ? And if you do feed him kibble are you better off giving him grain free ?

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[Patrick Marino]

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He hates his kibble

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[Patrick Marino]

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[johnandmary]

hi could someone give us a good supplier in manchester area as we looking to start  raw feeding and looking for good supplier

[Patrick Marino]

Any good suppliers in New York ?

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[Patrick Marino]

Gave my husky some chicken bones for the first time he loved them

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[crazeediamonds]

hi could someone give us a good supplier in manchester area as we looking to start  raw feeding and looking for good supplier

Me personally i find the pets@home mince is great and cheap enough. The 400g packs imo work out cheaper than the kilo packs. Lamb bones chicken wings legs etc i just buy from morrisons

[crazeediamonds]

Elyse thankyou  i feel so much better now

[Elyse]

This answers a lot of questions I had . My Siberian husky stole a dish of chicken bones one night off my dish and I thought they might hurt him when he swallowed them so I looked in his poop the next couple of days and found nothing. Lol

I am feeding him Trail of The Wild right now he is a year old. Any kibble I give him he does not like but if I mix in chunks of meat like beef he eats it and gets diarrhea . Isn't it a lot more expensive to feed him a raw diet ? And is everything on the lists given to him raw ? And how do you store all this raw meat ? Freezer ? And if you do feed him kibble are you better off giving him grain free ?

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Yes, everything is given to them raw. Yes, it usually is more expensive to feed them a raw diet...which is why mine isn't on one anymore. 

Yes, you just throw it in the freezer and bring it out when needed. And yes, grain-free kibble is best...some huskies' stomachs are sensitive to grain.

[crazeediamonds]

Yes, everything is given to them raw. Yes, it usually is more expensive to feed them a raw diet...which is why mine isn't on one anymore. 

 

In my oh's opinion he doesn't think it is more expensive but then it all depends on how much you were paying for kibble and where you get your raw supplies from

[Stormy]

I find feeding raw cheaper!

[Patrick Marino]

You get a average of one month on a 30lb bag of kibble at average $45.00

About how many raw meat meals can you get for that price ? Comes out to $1.50 a day for kibble.

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[Stormy]

Don't know in dollars I pay around 50-60 a month in raw for two dogs

[sharloid]

Nice thread but I don't know any raw feeders that class tripe as offal, it's not a secreting organ. 'True raw' is usually referred to as prey model. 

[jmscott]

For this month we scored 20 pig hearts for $10. Plus with hunting season we can get cheap meat or even a free deer if we process it our self.

[jmscott]

Tripe definitely is NOT an organ meat, not much nutritional value in it to begin with.

[Stormy]

Tripe smells lovely lol

[sharloid]

Tripe is full of nutrients for dog! It's one of the best foods they can have. 

[Patrick Marino]

Do you give the tripe raw ? It taste great cooked with onions & crushed tomato cooked for people. Lol I know no good for dog . But do you prepare it in any way ? How about chop meat ? I mix meat in his kibble so he eats it . But was going to try and mix raw chop meat in it.

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[jmscott]

Processed meat defeats the purpose of raw and can introduce bacteria. They have teeth to rend and tear, no need to chop it up for them. You don't want to mix any kind of kibble with a raw meal.

[Senpup]

This is a lot to take in, but i am glad i have finally found this post.

Sennen has been on a 50% raw diet for about a year now but after reading this i can greatly improve it i think!

 

THANKS

[mylilhuskyboyICE]

I really want to move ice onto a raw diet but I'm sooo confused how to go about it as his stomach is extremely sensitive

[Stormy]

Start off with chicken wings see how he gets on with them?? They tend to firm them up tbh due to the bone! Both mine are on raw so if you want any help of advise just shout