Anyone have any nice stories about friends, family's sibes having a litter.

[Guest snowdog]

I was buying a husky, i was given a price for the husky, i was told when they were born, i wasnt aloud to look at the pups, the breeder went to the dams home and picked for me as it was her kc'd stud that fathered them, i was allowed photo's of the pup, we named it, my children were counting down the days to the pup coming into its new home, the breeder told me they had picked the one iwth the most stunning looks, symettrical markings all that business, we couldnt pick the pup up, we had to rely on the studs owners to fetch, , three days before our pup was coming home , we were telephoned and told as the pup is so stunning and would do well in shows because of the markings we would have to pay anothe 250 pound or forget it, i would not be blacmailed in to paying more than arranged, my kids were devestated, my husband wanted to, well i wont say but imagine his anger,seeing his wife and 3 children crying, begging him to pay more because they wanted their (neeko),

i later watched as this breeder sold her kc registered pup without the papers and kept the none reg as her own and now it has kc papers, wow how did that happen i wonder, just one of the scams i have learned about since, with all legalities comes corrupt people , for all of its life now , the non kc pup will now be registered as kc, and if she decides once its past itssell by date to her she acn sell it with the other poor pups papers as kc, and it isnt, i have first hand knowledge of how nasty spitfull an corrupt kc breeders can be, we went straight out travelled to grimsby from wolverhampton, to get our neeko, and kc or not full pedigree she is, ive seen her mom and granparents and spoke with all the family and that to me means more than a peice of paper some unscrupulous shady breeder would falsley give me, which stands more chance also that if she will swap papers, would she do health checks. Xx

[Sid_Wolf]

guys i'd seriously give up, i used to think like you but now i would never breed from a unreg dog or bitch. even if you do all the tests in the world you cant be sure there wont be recessive traits allong the line that will affect the pups...

also, your so restricted on what you can do with an unregistered pup, you cant enter into all the rallies, you cant show...

i would breed but only from registered dogs that have proved themselves in harness and maybe in the showring, that pass all tests with flying colours, have good lines and ONLY if i had a mentor who had a lot of experience on hand.

my girl's too important to me, i'd never risk her life.......

look at my past threads, you will see i didnt win, and now i understand why.

[Koda]

I was buying a husky, i was given a price for the husky, i was told when they were born, i wasnt aloud to look at the pups, the breeder went to the dams home and picked for me as it was her kc'd stud that fathered them, i was allowed photo's of the pup, we named it, my children were counting down the days to the pup coming into its new home, the breeder told me they had picked the one iwth the most stunning looks, symettrical markings all that business, we couldnt pick the pup up, we had to rely on the studs owners to fetch, , three days before our pup was coming home , we were telephoned and told as the pup is so stunning and would do well in shows because of the markings we would have to pay anothe 250 pound or forget it, i would not be blacmailed in to paying more than arranged, my kids were devestated, my husband wanted to, well i wont say but imagine his anger,seeing his wife and 3 children crying, begging him to pay more because they wanted their (neeko),

i later watched as this breeder sold her kc registered pup without the papers and kept the none reg as her own and now it has kc papers, wow how did that happen i wonder, just one of the scams i have learned about since, with all legalities comes corrupt people , for all of its life now , the non kc pup will now be registered as kc, and if she decides once its past itssell by date to her she acn sell it with the other poor pups papers as kc, and it isnt, i have first hand knowledge of how nasty spitfull an corrupt kc breeders can be, we went straight out travelled to grimsby from wolverhampton, to get our neeko, and kc or not full pedigree she is, ive seen her mom and granparents and spoke with all the family and that to me means more than a peice of paper some unscrupulous shady breeder would falsley give me, which stands more chance also that if she will swap papers, would she do health checks. Xx

Good point.

[Guest snowdog]

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I was buying a husky, i was given a price for the husky, i was told when they were born, i wasnt aloud to look at the pups, the breeder went to the dams home and picked for me as it was her kc'd stud that fathered them, i was allowed photo's of the pup, we named it, my children were counting down the days to the pup coming into its new home, the breeder told me they had picked the one iwth the most stunning looks, symettrical markings all that business, we couldnt pick the pup up, we had to rely on the studs owners to fetch, , three days before our pup was coming home , we were telephoned and told as the pup is so stunning and would do well in shows because of the markings we would have to pay anothe 250 pound or forget it, i would not be blacmailed in to paying more than arranged, my kids were devestated, my husband wanted to, well i wont say but imagine his anger,seeing his wife and 3 children crying, begging him to pay more because they wanted their (neeko),

i later watched as this breeder sold her kc registered pup without the papers and kept the none reg as her own and now it has kc papers, wow how did that happen i wonder, just one of the scams i have learned about since, with all legalities comes corrupt people , for all of its life now , the non kc pup will now be registered as kc, and if she decides once its past itssell by date to her she acn sell it with the other poor pups papers as kc, and it isnt, i have first hand knowledge of how nasty spitfull an corrupt kc breeders can be, we went straight out travelled to grimsby from wolverhampton, to get our neeko, and kc or not full pedigree she is, ive seen her mom and granparents and spoke with all the family and that to me means more than a peice of paper some unscrupulous shady breeder would falsley give me, which stands more chance also that if she will swap papers, would she do health checks. Xx

[raindog]

As I said, KC registration is just ONE of the crucially important factors which makes up a good breeder. Obviously the breeder you went to failed on everything else!!!

Even some of the biggest puppy farmers KC register their pups - that doesn't make them good breeders because they fall far far short of the other factors I mentioned.

Just because one (or even a hundred) breeders who KC register is rotten, it doesn't mean that breeders who don't register their pups are therefore good - far from it!

On the question of cost - IMHO no-one should charge more money for a "show prospect" than for a pet. When we (occasionally) sell pups, they are sold first and foremost as PETS. We encourage the new owners to show and work them, but that is their privilege.

Mick

[PawPrints]

Great post Mick -

"So, even after 15 years we are still learning every day and while we would never discourage people from breeding, we would encourage them to do it 100% properly "

I agrree with this - at end of the day people gotta think about the pups and bitches lives you gotta do the health tests - dont women test for defects before pregnancy? or if a woman has something like chrones or something, that they know can be passed to their unborn child - would they have a kid knowing they would damage it - feck no

[Bec]

QUOTE

ANSWER

did you read my post about my vet , and health checks , and price lists, and solicitors, and do kc registered pups end up in the pound, uuur yup! and dont tell me that kc papers arnt fiddled by dodgy breeders cos they are and i have first hand esperience in people swapping similar aged dogs non kc'd and keeping them selling on the non kc pup and keeping the other one illegally, so i wouldnttrust the paper its written on, ive had this happen to me first hand so i know what goes on. and for all its life now that none kc dog will be written in history as registered!!!!!

I wasn't actually referring to you, but to Koda, who thinks that every female dog should be bred from.

That could happen to any Bitch? Even a Kc reg and pedigree papered.

Absolutely it could. Yet you still think that every bitch should be bred from and that having a litter from them makes them a better dog (which is so far from the truth it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad people still actually think like that). What about the risk of pyro, or any other issue that comes with keeping a bitch entire (even if you don't breed from her)?

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I was buying a husky, i was given a price for the husky, i was told when they were born, i wasnt aloud to look at the pups, the breeder went to the dams home and picked for me as it was her kc'd stud that fathered them, i was allowed photo's of the pup, we named it, my children were counting down the days to the pup coming into its new home, the breeder told me they had picked the one iwth the most stunning looks, symettrical markings all that business, we couldnt pick the pup up, we had to rely on the studs owners to fetch, , three days before our pup was coming home , we were telephoned and told as the pup is so stunning and would do well in shows because of the markings we would have to pay anothe 250 pound or forget it, i would not be blacmailed in to paying more than arranged, my kids were devestated, my husband wanted to, well i wont say but imagine his anger,seeing his wife and 3 children crying, begging him to pay more because they wanted their (neeko),

i later watched as this breeder sold her kc registered pup without the papers and kept the none reg as her own and now it has kc papers, wow how did that happen i wonder, just one of the scams i have learned about since, with all legalities comes corrupt people , for all of its life now , the non kc pup will now be registered as kc, and if she decides once its past itssell by date to her she acn sell it with the other poor pups papers as kc, and it isnt, i have first hand knowledge of how nasty spitfull an corrupt kc breeders can be, we went straight out travelled to grimsby from wolverhampton, to get our neeko, and kc or not full pedigree she is, ive seen her mom and granparents and spoke with all the family and that to me means more than a peice of paper some unscrupulous shady breeder would falsley give me, which stands more chance also that if she will swap papers, would she do health checks. Xx

That's unfortunate, but as Mick said, having a pedigree is just ONE of the crucially important factors when it comes to breeding.

That there are pedigree breeders out there who do the wrong thing doesn't mean anything - we aren't saying all pedigree breeders are good breeders. I am simply explaining the importance of having a pedigree so you know where your dogs have come from and so you can contribute something to the breed instead of pumping out more unpapered dogs.

[Guest snowdog]

My point is you can never ever be 100 percent satisfied that what you are getting is what you have been informed it is, by whomever, ive been stung by a kc breeder( i use that term loosely) and then witnessed a list of bent goings on, so although i do agree one bad apple and all that, i will say papers to me arnt worth a jot, i have seen, and been around neeko's parents and grandparents and they have shown their dogs and professinally rigged them, and to me i would pay double for that knowledge than imsorry to say but a peice of paper, cos lord knows how many none kc dogs are out there with another sibes kc papers! I have said over and over agin and will keep saying it, to me the system can be twisted and it is corrupt all be it by the minority, whos to say but akll i know is, my sibes are well looked after, and any pups they may have god willing will be vet checked, have a solicitor witnessed contract in place for rehoming, have funds in my band account and a vet to hand, i could not do anymore than that and its a hell of a lot more than (some!!) not all kc breeders put in place. Phheeeeeeeewwe sos to go on!

Stung once a victim stung twice a fool!

[Bec]

My point is you can never ever be 100 percent satisfied that what you are getting is what you have been informed it is, by whomever, ive been stung by a kc breeder( i use that term loosely) and then witnessed a list of bent goings on, so although i do agree one bad apple and all that, i will say papers to me arnt worth a jot, i have seen, and been around neeko's parents and grandparents and they have shown their dogs and professinally rigged them, and to me i would pay double for that knowledge than imsorry to say but a peice of paper, cos lord knows how many none kc dogs are out there with another sibes kc papers! I have said over and over agin and will keep saying it, to me the system can be twisted and it is corrupt all be it by the minority, whos to say but akll i know is, my sibes are well looked after, and any pups they may have god willing will be vet checked, have a solicitor witnessed contract in place for rehoming, have funds in my band account and a vet to hand, i could not do anymore than that and its a hell of a lot more than (some!!) not all kc breeders put in place. Phheeeeeeeewwe sos to go on!

Stung once a victim stung twice a fool!

But if you are looking at breeding your dogs, their pedigree SHOULD be worth a lot to YOU. How many times do we have to say it's not about the piece of paper alone but what you do with it and what it tells you - and the fact it gives you an opportunity to give something to the breed.

There isn't a reputable breeder in the world who would breed from unpapered dogs, because they are an unknown quantity, and they have no idea what they are bringing into their lines.

For every dodgy pedigree breeder story you tell me I can tell you 10 stories about dodgy backyard breeders. The bad breeders aren't the focus here, it's what a pedigree means and what you can do with it when you look at breeding your dogs.

[Koda]

guys i'd seriously give up, i used to think like you but now i would never breed from a unreg dog or bitch. even if you do all the tests in the world you cant be sure there wont be recessive traits allong the line that will affect the pups...

I have a male sibe no papers mum was kc and father wasnt. he is my life now but for people to say i couldnt breed him cause of recessive traits its totally crap cause you could have bad traits even with papered.( yes i wouldnt beable to show or race my dog in compitions cause idont have the kc reg) but hey i could still race my dog have a bit on fun on the way. And Koda doesnt have kc papers he's a brilliant dog with no traits or aggrestion problems he's alround a absolute brill dog. I just dont get why people thing its wrong for you to breed your dog with the same kind if you dont have papers? to me kc papers dont mean anything like i said i was enquiring about a female husky that had paper but had endorsements on the papers, So for 700 pounds is alot of money to pay and to have endorsements on the papers is a total rip off. When i bought koda it was the best 500 pounds i ever spent cause he's got the looks to kill and alround a brill dog and i thank the person that sold him to me with out the papers.

[Sid_Wolf]

not necessarily true. GOOD breeders spend months maybe even years going over their lines, they know them inside and out, if there is anything wrong in their lines they wont breed from them.

not saying they're all like this but a good breeder will do this

[Bec]

I have a male sibe no papers mum was kc and father wasnt. he is my life now but for people to say i couldnt breed him cause of recessive traits its totally crap cause you could have bad traits even with papered.

But the pedigree lets you research the lines so you know what you are breeding with. Without them, you don't know if any recessive traits will pop up because you have no way of knowing where your dog has come from.

So it's "total crap" that any good breeder will know and research their lines so they can actually prevent breeding dogs with recessive problems? That not every pedigree breeder does this is not the point, because without a pedigree, you have no way of doing it at all.

( yes i wouldnt beable to show or race my dog in compitions cause idont have the kc reg) but hey i could still race my dog have a bit on fun on the way. And Koda doesnt have kc papers he's a brilliant dog with no traits or aggrestion problems he's alround a absolute brill dog. I just dont get why people thing its wrong for you to breed your dog with the same kind if you dont have papers? to me kc papers dont mean anything like i said i was enquiring about a female husky that had paper but had endorsements on the papers, So for 700 pounds is alot of money to pay and to have endorsements on the papers is a total rip off. When i bought koda it was the best 500 pounds i ever spent cause he's got the looks to kill and alround a brill dog and i thank the person that sold him to me with out the papers.

So you can't race or show your dog, how will you know that he's a good example of the breed aside from your own opinion? Even experienced breeders seek the opinion of someone outside of their kennel to critique their dogs.

I don't think my dog was a total rip off, she came from an excellent breeder who breed for health, temperament and type and has been breeding strong healthy typey dogs for 30 years. That she has limited papers means nothing to me because I don't want to breed nor show - if you ask me, she was a bargain

Still waiting for your opinion on the Sibe pics I posted on page two? Can you tell me if they are both definitely purebred?

[Guest snowdog]

Helllloooo my point is, if i didnt know the breeder in question and went and bought that puppy with its papers, it doesnt necessarily have to be the puppy on the paper i am buying! This is why i say its paper to me, because i have seen first hand the swinndlingthat has been done, and then apup sold to some poor mug, buying what they deem to be kc but in actual fact it is not,aaaaaaah its not the paper its the people behind it, not all kc breeders are corrupt bu some are, and there are people out there with a pup and a peice of paper that dont match and they dont even know it!

[Guest snowdog]

QUOTE

Still waiting for your opinion on the Sibe pics I posted on page two? Can you tell me if they are both definitely purebred?

ANSWER

DUNNO WOULD YOU IF YOU LOOKED AT TWO PICTURES, COS IF YOU CAN WELL DONE, ID SAY PICTURE TWO BUT WHO AM I!

ID LOOK AT THE KC PAPERS, BUT WAIT DOES THAT PAPER BELONG TO THAT PUP!

[Koda]

But the pedigree lets you research the lines so you know what you are breeding with. Without them, you don't know if any recessive traits will pop up because you have no way of knowing where your dog has come from.

So it's "total crap" that any good breeder will know and research their lines so they can actually prevent breeding dogs with recessive problems? That not every pedigree breeder does this is not the point, because without a pedigree, you have no way of doing it at all.

So you can't race or show your dog, how will you know that he's a good example of the breed aside from your own opinion? Even experienced breeders seek the opinion of someone outside of their kennel to critique their dogs.

I don't think my dog was a total rip off, she came from an excellent breeder who breed for health, temperament and type and has been breeding strong healthy typey dogs for 30 years. That she has limited papers means nothing to me because I don't want to breed nor show - if you ask me, she was a bargain

Still waiting for your opinion on the Sibe pics I posted on page two? Can you tell me if they are both definitely purebred?

well to be honest I'd say the first 1 was a husky, and the second picture i mite have to say its a malamute cross with a husky but saying that you can tell more with them being older dogs not pups. But the first picture defo a husky

[Bec]

Helllloooo my point is, if i didnt know the breeder in question and went and bought that puppy with its papers, it doesnt necessarily have to be the puppy on the paper i am buying! This is why i say its paper to me, because i have seen first hand the swinndlingthat has been done, and then apup sold to some poor mug, buying what they deem to be kc but in actual fact it is not,aaaaaaah its not the paper its the people behind it, not all kc breeders are corrupt bu some are, and there are people out there with a pup and a peice of paper that dont match and they dont even know it!

But, again, that's not the point. Again, pedigree papers are about what you do with them and what they tell you about your dogs and the dogs behind them; and the fact they give you the opportunity to contribute something to the breed.

That there are dodgy pedigree breeders out there means nothing when there are so many that use the pedigree for what it is for: a blueprint to breeding great dogs.

QUOTE

Still waiting for your opinion on the Sibe pics I posted on page two? Can you tell me if they are both definitely purebred?

ANSWER

DUNNO WOULD YOU IF YOU LOOKED AT TWO PICTURES, COS IF YOU CAN WELL DONE, ID SAY PICTURE TWO BUT WHO AM I!

Was actually asking Koda as he said that you can always tell if a dog is purebred or not, without needing papers to prove it. It's not supposed to be easy

[Koda]

Ive just answered You?

[Bec]

well to be honest I'd say the first 1 was a husky, and the second picture i mite have to say its a malamute cross with a husky but saying that you can tell more with them being older dogs not pups. But the first picture defo a husky

The first picture is a crossbreed. The second picture is a pedigree Siberian from a very reputable breeder

So you can always tell when a dog is purebred? It can actually be harder than it looks. I hope you don't stud your male out to a crossbreed, by accident.

ETA: Sorry, Koda, I must have been typing as you were posting

[Guest snowdog]

Im not sure your getting my point, if you have a dog, and the kc paper you were sold does not actually belong to thatdog the paper doesnt and cant tell you a damn thing about its history, ! And ooops sorry for answering koda's question didnt realise it wasnt for me!

WAHOOO GOT THE QUESTON RIGHT THOUGH, ONLY NEED TO LOOK AT MY NEEKO AND HER MANE OF FUR TO SEE THAT!!!

[Koda]

But the pedigree lets you research the lines so you know what you are breeding with. Without them, you don't know if any recessive traits will pop up because you have no way of knowing where your dog has come from.

So it's "total crap" that any good breeder will know and research their lines so they can actually prevent breeding dogs with recessive problems? That not every pedigree breeder does this is not the point, because without a pedigree, you have no way of doing it at all.

So you can't race or show your dog, how will you know that he's a good example of the breed aside from your own opinion? Even experienced breeders seek the opinion of someone outside of their kennel to critique their dogs.

I don't think my dog was a total rip off, she came from an excellent breeder who breed for health, temperament and type and has been breeding strong healthy typey dogs for 30 years. That she has limited papers means nothing to me because I don't want to breed nor show - if you ask me, she was a bargain

Still waiting for your opinion on the Sibe pics I posted on page two? Can you tell me if they are both definitely purebred?

The first picture is a crossbreed. The second picture is a pedigree Siberian from a very reputable breeder

So you can always tell when a dog is purebred? It can actually be harder than it looks. I hope you don't stud your male out to a crossbreed, by accident.

ETA: Sorry, Koda, you must have been typing when I was posting

well sorry you would say that wouldnt you that im wrong so either way i lost. if the first 1 wasnt a full husky then why has it got pure blue eyes and the classic face mask of a husky where the second 1 has ears wider which inticates thats a huskymute and to be honest could see if the tail curls either could i so? cause the tail of a husky can tell you alot

[Guest snowdog]

Never mind koda its a guessing game when all youve got is two photo's to go by, i hope you do stud your dog, hes beauuuuuuutiful x

[Bec]

well sorry you would say that wouldnt you that im wrong so either way i lost. if the first 1 wasnt a full husky then why has it got pure blue eyes and the classic face mask of a husky where the second 1 has ears wider which inticates thats a huskymute and to be honest could see if the tail curls either could i so? cause the tail of a husky can tell you alot

LOL! I would have answered honestly if you picked number two as purebred.

Blue eyes don't indicate a dog is purebred. It indicates the dog might have Siberian genes. You can get a mixture of both breeds when you breed a crossbreed. And there are more than one breed that have blue eyes. The dog could have a Siberian tail and still be a crossbreed, too.

The point is that it's NOT always easy to tell a purebred from a crossbreed, like you suggested.

[Bec]

Never mind koda its a guessing game when all youve got is two photo's to go by, i hope you do stud your dog, hes beauuuuuuutiful x

A guessing game is exactly what it is when you breed unpapered dogs

Being beautiful is not a good enough reason to encourage someone to stud their dog.

I'd hope he had great hip scores, clear eyes and nice conformation before looking "beautiful".

[Guest snowdog]

Lol do i get a prize, even though it wasnt my question to answer!

[Koda]

Never mind koda its a guessing game when all youve got is two photo's to go by, i hope you do stud your dog, hes beauuuuuuutiful x

Ive studded my koda out and his pups was all vet checked given a full bill of health so...... and thanks he a gorgoues looking dog, And so is yours. Totally agree with everything your getting at and so do other people by the poll at the top.