siberian_wolf Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 While I think saying 90% of owners who use prong collars misuse them is a gross exaggeration, the same can be said for all tools. Prong collars are no more dangerous (even less so in some cases) than head collars; check chains; martingales etc. All tools can be misused. Abuse is in the user not the tool. Whilst I still dislike prong and e collars I have to agree with you here bec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Melsom Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 That's what I was saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 What I don't like is the fact that you're saying your "puppy" still pulls and you want to try a prong collar. Please try a walk your dog with love harness. They are wonderful harnesses that avoid all the complications prongs can cause. Stacey xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 What I don't like is the fact that you're saying your "puppy" still pulls and you want to try a prong collar. Please try a walk your dog with love harness. They are wonderful harnesses that avoid all the complications prongs can cause. Stacey xxx Stacey can you expand on that? What complications do they avoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoBD Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 There is nothing wrong with a prong collar. Its the same effect the pups mother would give with a corrective bite. I would highly suggest you ask a professional to show you how to use it correctly. If you think it won't work please read about it or call a professional. Police use these daily and have very disciplined HAPPY healthy working dogs that love what they do. I would not leave the prong Collar on the dog. Put it on only when you need to use it for training. They are not cruel they do not hurt when used correctly (which is why I say ask a pro). I posted an article in the thread titled "Training - The Silent Killer" it might help to read that, its also below. Message me if you have any questions, I'm just here to help. http://connectwithyourk9.com/a/ Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoBD Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Stacey can you expand on that? What complications do they avoid? Walk your dog with love harnesses do not work with a strong willed dog. Not everything works for everyone. Some dogs need that primal reminder to straighten up. WYDWL did NOT work with Moro. He was annoyed and pulled harder. I put a choke chain on him and as soon as it began to get snug, NOT tight but snug he immediately slowed down. I of course gave the heel command at the appropriate point. Please do not bash things you haven't tried. When used CORRECTLY prongs/chokes have better results than harnesses. I only say this because I gave WYDWL two months to work and it did not. I AM assuming you do NOT use those collars. I'd like to add that the most amazingly disciplined and obedient dogs I've ever seen were with Police and my military experience, 95% of them wear those collars proudly and they are extremely healthy and HAPPY doing so. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinzess Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I am not an advocate of Prong Collars. I can see what you are saying by it isn't the tool but the tool of a trainer (my humor sorry) But...none of these tools were around back in the Husky's or any dogs ancestry time period. They used other methods and must have been successful as we still have a great dog today. I have to ask...have we become so busy with our lives that we must resort to all these different methods of tool training when many many moons ago they just were not used. Maybe I am stupid but I like to gain the dogs trust, respect and put plenty of time in with the dog. Consistency. Not saying none of you don't either, so please don't take offence. I am questioning why do we have to have the latest E Gadget for our dog training when simpler successful methods were used by the tribes that reared our Siberian Husky's say. I do hope I have not offended anyone with my views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoBD Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I am not an advocate of Prong Collars. I can see what you are saying by it isn't the tool but the tool of a trainer (my humor sorry) But...none of these tools were around back in the Husky's or any dogs ancestry time period. They used other methods and must have been successful as we still have a great dog today. I have to ask...have we become so busy with our lives that we must resort to all these different methods of tool training when many many moons ago they just were not used. Maybe I am stupid but I like to gain the dogs trust, respect and put plenty of time in with the dog. Consistency. Not saying none of you don't either, so please don't take offence. I am questioning why do we have to have the latest E Gadget for our dog training when simpler successful methods were used by the tribes that reared our Siberian Husky's say. I do hope I have not offended anyone with my views. Its hard for me to put into words how my husband and I work with our dogs. There is an overwhelming amount of love but there is respect too. I know what you mean and I'm with you. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king tyson Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Staceybob I do walk my 9 month puppy with love, but he like other huskies loves to pull, so I have tried different techniques and no I haven't given up because I know he will learn soon enough, all I was asking was for opinions on prong collars since there are mix emotions on them..thanks everyone I'm learning a lot just from reading this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinzess Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Tyson, I am going to do something with my Husky x that was suggested by someone else on this forum. Use a flat collar for Luka on our normal walks. But when I want him to pull train him in a harness and while he has this harness on he is allowed to pull. I thought that was a great suggestion and sorry I cannot remember their name. I took Luka for his first walk on the leash other day. He for the most part was great. As for all my other dogs I have had in my lifetime this is what I do. it is work but the results have been great. I have always been complimented on how well behaved my dogs are. But again loads of time has been put into this. I put a flat collar on them. I hold the leash so they only have enough of it to walk beside me, not so they are choking. I ask them to heel if they pull and tug the leash back slightly so they do. Any dog can pull not just the Husky If they do not heed I stop, get them settled and ready to go again. If they quit pulling after doing this for a week, I will let more of the leash out to let them earn my trust. If they pull they get the shortened leash again. Dogs are very intelligent and soon learn, hmmm if I want more freedom, I must act this way. I have been successful thus far and yes consistency is the key. I also had to train my boyfriend to keep to this too. He would let our hound dog just bolt across a road. I told him no, she must sit at the curb until we say go. It just wasn't safe to allow her to do that. Once he started to do this he found her much more controllable and safer. I wish you the best with your pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Walk your dog with love harnesses do not work with a strong willed dog. Not everything works for everyone. Some dogs need that primal reminder to straighten up. WYDWL did NOT work with Moro. He was annoyed and pulled harder. I put a choke chain on him and as soon as it began to get snug, NOT tight but snug he immediately slowed down. I of course gave the heel command at the appropriate point. Please do not bash things you haven't tried. When used CORRECTLY prongs/chokes have better results than harnesses. I only say this because I gave WYDWL two months to work and it did not. I AM assuming you do NOT use those collars. I'd like to add that the most amazingly disciplined and obedient dogs I've ever seen were with Police and my military experience, 95% of them wear those collars proudly and they are extremely healthy and HAPPY doing so. Huh? Not sure why you aimed this at me? I work for a dog training company and we use and sell prong collars. I have nothing against the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) I am not an advocate of Prong Collars. I can see what you are saying by it isn't the tool but the tool of a trainer (my humor sorry) But...none of these tools were around back in the Husky's or any dogs ancestry time period. They used other methods and must have been successful as we still have a great dog today. I have to ask...have we become so busy with our lives that we must resort to all these different methods of tool training when many many moons ago they just were not used. Maybe I am stupid but I like to gain the dogs trust, respect and put plenty of time in with the dog. Consistency. Not saying none of you don't either, so please don't take offence. I am questioning why do we have to have the latest E Gadget for our dog training when simpler successful methods were used by the tribes that reared our Siberian Husky's say. I do hope I have not offended anyone with my views. Not offended at all, but I don't really understand the comparison. Society has changed hugely since that time 'many moons ago'. Do you really think that back then dogs were perfectly behaved and lived with people with no problems? Back then dogs that had issues would have been killed without a second thought, because dogs that couldn't work were redundant. People weren't going to go to see trainers to work with dogs that had serious psychological issues or behaviourial problems. Back then, dogs weren't vaccinated, there were no vets, and their average life span would have been many years less than how long our dogs live for today. Still sure that those dogs were better, happier than our dogs today? And that advancements in technology are pointless? My training method of choice doesn't involve any physical corrections, but training other dogs and owners isn't about what works for my dog working for all dogs and owners. Often by the time clients come to us they are so desperate and have completely lost hope with their dog that if they don't see results in that one session, and have hope restored that their dog can get better, their next action will be having the dog PTS. Tools like prong collars can give the owner some leverage so that they can get control back quickly so behaviour modification can take place. It means they leave with hope and knowledge their dog can get better which means rather than having the dog PTS they will go home and put the work in to modify the dog's behaviour. Simply saying 'put some time and consistency in with your dog and one day you will get results' is not going to be enough to save these dogs or help their owners. Edited July 1, 2012 by Bec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Stacey can you expand on that? What complications do they avoid? By leading from the front of the dog and not from the neck, you avoid any form of neck injuries that can be caused by normal collars or choke and prongs. In America, WYWDL are running prong/choke trade-in's for free walk your dog with love harnesses, and the feed back has been amazing. We're hoping to bring the campaign over to the UK. Walk your dog with love harnesses do not work with a strong willed dog. It didn't work on your dog. There are plenty of strong willed pullers here that have been amazed by the effectiveness of this harness. There are particular ways to use the harness effectively and quite often those that don't think it work, see that it does when I've visited them and shown them how to do it properly. Staceybob I do walk my 9 month puppy with love, but he like other huskies loves to pull. When you say that, do you mean you already own a "Walk Your Dog With Love Harness". I know working huskies that work on command and then use this harness for walks and become amazing heel walkers. My girl is trained to pull my scooter but on a walk she will walk to heel. Pete and his dog are a fantastic example of a hard working dog that can learn how to walk to heel without the use of a tool like the prong. It takes hard work, repetition and effort, but it's worth it in the end. Stacey xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 By leading from the front of the dog and not from the neck, you avoid any form of neck injuries that can be caused by normal collars or choke and prongs. In America, WYWDL are running prong/choke trade-in's for free walk your dog with love harnesses, and the feed back has been amazing. We're hoping to bring the campaign over to the UK. What kind of neck injuries have you seen caused by prong collars? I am genuinely interested as we have sold 1000s of prong collars and have never had neck injuries occur. We've seen skin irritation occur from dogs wearing anti pull harnesses, and in testing we haven't seen results that are as effective or better than results we get from teaching LLW with flat or martingale collars. Good to hear you've had good results though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siberian_wolf Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 just thought I would intervene and say I'm finding this conversation very interesting to read peoples different views on walking training tools and for it to be going so well rather than it being more like a heated argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 What kind of neck injuries have you seen caused by prong collars? I am genuinely interested as we have sold 1000s of prong collars and have never had neck injuries occur. We've seen skin irritation occur from dogs wearing anti pull harnesses, and in testing we haven't seen results that are as effective or better than results we get from teaching LLW with flat or martingale collars. Good to hear you've had good results though. Bec, you probably educate people that you sell prong collars to. WYDWL have seen dogs with necks in terrible states from hundreds of US owners using prongs inappropriately, they are very much a common practice tool in the US and some poor dogs have been left with marks and punctures to the neck. I have used a prong collar on myself and my instant thought was, I could not use that on my little girl, I don't find there is a need to. I didn't pull the collar particularly tight but it left indent marks on myself and that is enough for me to say I wouldn't use it on my dog. We're bound to disagree no matter how we discuss this as I am anti-prong and am supporting the Kennel Clubs campaign in the UK to get them banned apart from in necessary cases for working dogs like search and rescue and army dogs (but even then I still don't like the idea of them). Aleu is loose leash walked on her collar because she is trained to do so, but I do find the harnesses help to get some people to that stage. Stacey xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Bec, you probably educate people that you sell prong collars to. WYDWL have seen dogs with necks in terrible states from hundreds of US owners using prongs inappropriately, they are very much a common practice tool in the US and some poor dogs have been left with marks and punctures to the neck. I have used a prong collar on myself and my instant thought was, I could not use that on my little girl, I don't find there is a need to. I didn't pull the collar particularly tight but it left indent marks on myself and that is enough for me to say I wouldn't use it on my dog. We're bound to disagree no matter how we discuss this as I am anti-prong and am supporting the Kennel Clubs campaign in the UK to get them banned apart from in necessary cases for working dogs like search and rescue and army dogs (but even then I still don't like the idea of them). The only time I've seen marks on dogs necks from prong collars have been from collar necrosis which I mentioned earlier in the thread. That's something I've seen caused by flat collars, so I really don't understand why it's used as an argument against prongs. I don't understand how any good can come from banning training tools like prongs. I simply don't understand the logic when there is no proof that shows prong collars inflict more harm or cause more damage to dogs than tools like head collars, check chain, martingales, e-collars etc and I will never understand why some trainers feel the need to run down other tools and methods to force their own methods on to others. Not saying you do that, but every trainer or individual I've met that pushes for the banning of x tool does so because they want to push y tool instead. I am far more interested in seeing the results they get in training their clients dogs than what their opinion is on x y or z tool. Prongs collars are one of many tools we have available for owners to use depending on their handling ability and their dog, as this thread proves, no one tool works on all dogs. Edited July 1, 2012 by Bec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 no one tool works on all dogs. No you're right there, but I continue to support trying to get the ban in the UK to stop them from getting in the wrong hands. Stacey xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 saw this on facebook. think its good so I thought Id share. No doubt it will generate some comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 No you're right there, but I continue to support trying to get the ban in the UK to stop them from getting in the wrong hands. Stacey xxx So let's ban all training tools as all have the risk of falling into the wrong hands. Or maybe we should just ban stupid people from owning dogs, so there's no one to misuse or abuse training tools in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 saw this on facebook. think its good so I thought Id share. No doubt it will generate some comments. I will be sure to tell the next desperate owner who comes to us for training saying the next stop will be having their dog PTS that all they have to do is just train the dog. Easy right? The reality is that all tools are just that, a piece of equipment, and are only as effective as the training program they are used with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyshqa Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Getting a bit repetitive, just putting that out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Walk your dog with love harnesses do not work with a strong willed dog. Not everything works for everyone. Some dogs need that primal reminder to straighten up. WYDWL did NOT work with Moro. He was annoyed and pulled harder. I put a choke chain on him and as soon as it began to get snug, NOT tight but snug he immediately slowed down. I of course gave the heel command at the appropriate point. Please do not bash things you haven't tried. When used CORRECTLY prongs/chokes have better results than harnesses. I only say this because I gave WYDWL two months to work and it did not. I AM assuming you do NOT use those collars. I'd like to add that the most amazingly disciplined and obedient dogs I've ever seen were with Police and my military experience, 95% of them wear those collars proudly and they are extremely healthy and HAPPY doing so. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Worked wonders no blaze who is so stubborn it's unreal nothing worked with him but this has with training ov corse it's not a quick fix its a tool to help training he still has his moments but he's much better Sent from my ST18i using Forum Runner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Storm is a very strong puller, very strong willed. Stacey is going to come visit us as soon as shes back from ipswich to help me re-train Storm into not pulling me as much. Without prong, choke or electric collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 So let's ban all training tools as all have the risk of falling into the wrong hands. Or maybe we should just ban stupid people from owning dogs, so there's no one to misuse or abuse training tools in the first place I can see where you're coming from but when I used a flat cushioned webbing collar I feel no discomfort. When I wore a prong collar, I felt instant discomfort and had the marks to show the discomfort afterwards. Not for me. I train with minimal corrections to avoid any injuries to the dog. Stacey xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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