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Hey guys Im just looking for some

Opinion on prong collars? I only asked because I've used the chocke collar to train my puppy however he still pulls so I'm think on my next tool I can use and prong collar seem to work, I've also read about e collars however this tool I will use for diferent type of training such as off leash training, for now im working on getting him

To stop pulling...thanks

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I personally hate them....why not invest in a walk your dog with love harness...the should stop pulling...

I will enlighten my hate for them a bit more..we had a rescue GSD Jake who, with his previous owner, had a prong collar..it had taken us 6 months to even get used to any collar when we got him and he did have some serious scars on his neck...not to say that you would use it so hard..but now you do understand my statement...

Edited by robke
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I think they are actually better than choke collars as you cannot tighten them up all the way, so basically you can't get it any tighter than a certain point.

But I would certainly try a slightly different approach for the pulling - it doesn't look like the choke collar is working which, if you have been delivering the corrections at the right time/in the right way, would imply that probably different training is needed. I would try some positive reinforcement and a front leading harness, to be honest.

Or looking for the help of a professional trainer. Having the right tools is nothing if you don't know how to use them the right way, as I said, giving the corrections at the right moment and with the right intensity is crucial. Especially with prong/choke collars I would not recommend just ordering one off ebay and start using it with no training, you could end up hurting your dog without achieving anything.

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I don't like prong collars they actually cause serious injury to the dog Ive actually seen a few dogs where the collar has tore open the skin and the dog had to get stiches. Put one on and pulling on it yourself. I think you should try a no pull harness..on that clips in the front or the harness robke suggested.

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Definitely no to a prong/shock or choke collar. We tried a WYDWL harness as mentioned above but he soon learnt to pull in it and now we're working on training him not to pull, rather than stopping him by force.

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demon is now 20 month old i think he is 1 of the strongest dogs on here pulls like a train (anybody that has met him will know) but in the last few month with a bit of work i now have him walking to heel yes demon walking to heel no shock collar or anything else but voice comands,

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I don't like prong collars they actually cause serious injury to the dog Ive actually seen a few dogs where the collar has tore open the skin and the dog had to get stiches. Put one on and pulling on it yourself. I think you should try a no pull harness..on that clips in the front or the harness robke suggested.

That would have been due to pressure necrosis which is caused by the collar being left on the dog for an extreme length of time (think months) until it imbeds in the neck and becomes infected. I've seen horrific cases occur with flat collars. Abuse is in the user not the tool.

Prong collars are a super tool when used properly in the right circumstance, I've put one on myself many times and it isn't painful, you just feel the pressure. We've tested anti-pull harnesses and haven't found that the are anymore effective than training dogs on flat collars or martingales. At the end of the day all these things are, are simply tools, and they are ultimately only as effective as the handler and the training program we use them with. They provide you with leverage to implement training - dogs can learn to pull on any tool.

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The fact that your dog is a puller, tells you that moving forward is something he wants to do very much. Moving forward can be used as a reinforcer! So use the opportunity to move forward the same way you use any other reinforcer like food or toys or opportunity to play. If your dog will give you the behavior you want (slack leash) he gets the reinforcer (move forward). If he does not give you the behavior you want (he pulls on the leash) he does not get the reinforcer (you stand still and keep him from going forward.) Follow these steps:

As long as your dog is with you in any position that you find acceptable, keep moseing around. The rules of this game are, so long as he is not pulling. He gets to walk.

If the leash gets tight, stop moving. Don't give your dog any verbal or physical que or correction other than your cessation of motion. Be like a rock and stand there. You have to make a commitment never to move forward if your dog is pulling on the leash. The reinforcer is the opportunity to move forward. You give that reinforcer to your dog in exchange for keeping the leash loose. The instant there is any slack in the leash, move forward. Make it very obvious to your dog what the key is to forward movement. So long as you are consistent, it will not take long at all for him to figure out that pulling does not pay.

The rules of this game are simple - keep the leash loose, and you get to move forward. Tighten the leash and I will stop until you turn around and put some slack in the leash.

We hope this helps you out in getting the results you desire and we do not believe in choke chains nor prong collars. To us they are "Mid-evil."

Edited by SA DA KA
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The fact that your dog is a puller, tells you that moving forward is something he wants to do very much. Moving forward can be used as a reinforcer! So use the opportunity to move forward the same way you use any other reinforcer like food or toys or opportunity to play. If your dog will give you the behavior you want (slack leash) he gets the reinforcer (move forward). If he does not give you the behavior you want (he pulls on the leash) he does not get the reinforcer (you stand still and keep him from going forward.) Follow these steps:

As long as your dog is with you in any position that you find acceptable, keep moseing around. The rules of this game are, so long as he is not pulling. He gets to walk.

If the leash gets tight, stop moving. Don't give your dog any verbal or physical que or correction other than your cessation of motion. Be like a rock and stand there. You have to make a commitment never to move forward if your dog is pulling on the leash. The reinforcer is the opportunity to move forward. You give that reinforcer to your dog in exchange for keeping the leash loose. The instant there is any slack in the leash, move forward. Make it very obvious to your dog what the key is to forward movement. So long as you are consistent, it will not take long at all for him to figure out that pulling does not pay.

The rules of this game are simple - keep the leash loose, and you get to move forward. Tighten the leash and I will stop until you turn around and put some slack in the leash.

We hope this helps you out in getting the results you desire and we do not believe in choke chains nor prong collars. To us they are "Mid-evil."

Couldn't add to that if I wanted too :) great response

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I think a very good and competent handler can train most dogs to loose leash walk without the aid of tools like prong collars, but the average dog owner is often not a competent and confident handler who is capable of handling a dog larger and stronger than they especially when pulling has become strongly ingrained. It would be nice if that was the case but it's not reality.

Edited by Bec
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I also like the prong collar as a training tool, when properly used! Before using one, I would very strongly suggest that you have an experienced trainer help you fit it and learn how to use it properly, preferably in the context of a training class. While they can be very useful for getting a dog's attention, more important is the training that goes along with it - and no collar will teach a Siberian to be reliable off-lead! Some will be, some never will be, but YOUR relationship with the dog, in my opinion (built to a great extent through hours of partnership built through training and working together), is far and away the biggest factor after the dog's natural inclinations, in determining how reliably you can trust them off-lead!

Timing of any correction is very important to what the dog actually learns from the correction - the best given correction in the world that's timed a little off will teach the dog something entirely different than what you wanted it to learn. If your dog is doing something wrong, the correction needs to be given as you see the thought occur, if possible, or second best, during the action. If, on the other hand, you correct just as the dog stops, the dog isn't likely to connect the activity he was doing previously with your correction - whether you tell him "no!", tug on his leash, or any other correction you might apply...

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Every owner has their own tools. The prong, when used properly (which cannot be done without instruction provided to the handler) is just another tool in your training toolbox.

To be quite honest, I used one when training Ryn. She has no scars, no injuries, and has no fear of it. Why? Because before I used it to train her, I took training on it.

I like it because it gives immediate correction to the problem of pulling. As others have stated, if you are one second late in making a correction, you can teach your husky something entirely different than you had planned.

In addition to the prong, I also took Ryn to a behaviourist/trainer (yes, the trainer I chose was also a behaviourist taught at one of the most prestigious schools). Within two sessions, she was walking at hip and looking at me for direction.

The prong has since been put at the bottom of my basket of training tools. But it is still there.

I've been called a lazy owner, a bad owner and many other things for using the prong. I'm none of those and I have one of the very best behaved huskies around.

If you chose to use the prong, get yourself trained first. Don't use it 100 percent of the time. Once you've learned to properly time corrections, revert to your regular collar/lead.

And, yes - I did try a head halter. Even fitted by the vet in town (who swears by them and knows how to fit them properly). It wasn't two seconds and Ryn was out of it. Thankfully she sat down and asked what she should do next instead of running.

I must also add that I worked with Ryn in the manner suggested by SA DA KA and gained great success with her through that training.

The bottom line is you have to find out what works for you and for the husky. Keep trying and never give up. Use the tools you need to use, but never forget they are simply tools and nothing replaces the bond and the love and the time spent training your husky.

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The people that had Jessy before we adopted her used a prong collar on all of her 38lbs (now 45!) and for all the wrong reasons. They wondered why she would not stop pulling and always broke off the tie out...and decided if they put this on her, it would hurt enough that she would not break out. WRONG...she broke the tie out even when wearing the prong collar. We threw it away when we brought her home and used the behavior of the other two to help her learn. Honest though, none of them are great on lead...Jack is a spaz, Andy behaves unless he decides he wants to sniff something, and Jessy is a copy cat. I agree with all before that you have to learn how to use it as a training tool...personally, don't like it!

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Sutsibe and Austinville both wrote a wonderful statement and again it is all about the proper use of the tool you chose to use (training on how to use it is of utmost importance before it ever goes around a dogs neck) We, ourselves are against the choke chain and prong collar, we trained our Sasha, Dakota and Kayak not to pull with the method we posted on this thread earlier and enjoyed going anywhere we wanted with them without the "tug of war" going on. Here is a photo of the three of them on leads and this is how they walked always, the three of them together.

[ATTACH]50472[/ATTACH]

post-6713-13586055414047_thumb.jpg

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Sutsibe and Austinville both wrote a wonderful statement and again it is all about the proper use of the tool you chose to use (training on how to use it is of utmost importance before it ever goes around a dogs neck) We, ourselves are against the choke chain and prong collar, we trained our Sasha, Dakota and Kayak not to pull with the method we posted on this thread earlier and enjoyed going anywhere we wanted with them without the "tug of war" going on. Here is a photo of the three of them on leads and this is how they walked always, the three of them together.

[ATTACH]50472[/ATTACH]

They are so beautiful...and makes me think about ours on a walk. I'll have to go to you tube and pull the link to "our spaz Jack" and you can see how he "corrects" himself...skip, skip, jump, run back and walk behind daddy! It's very humorous...eventually, tires himself out!

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demon is now 20 month old i think he is 1 of the strongest dogs on here pulls like a train (anybody that has met him will know) but in the last few month with a bit of work i now have him walking to heel yes demon walking to heel no shock collar or anything else but voice comands,

how did u manage that? i cant get blaze to listen to me for anything! lol

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demon is now 20 month old i think he is 1 of the strongest dogs on here pulls like a train (anybody that has met him will know) but in the last few month with a bit of work i now have him walking to heel yes demon walking to heel no shock collar or anything else but voice comands,

Demon??? Walking to heel???? :eek:

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I personally have used the prong for my GSD mix and have had wonderful results. However, I not only took training classes that showed me the proper way to fit and use it I also had to join a GSD specific training forum as Diesel had broke three main stream ones (sold in our local pet store) and I nearly lost him once because of it. They pointed me to a website that sold a much better quality prong but also one that had a safety line which I was not told about in my classes. The brand you want is a Herm Sprenger or other German made one as those are the best quality on the market. I would highly recommend checking out these vids as well as they did help me make a decision on whether or not to use a prong with Diesel; which I ultimately did and would never look back given the awesome progress I've had with him thus far on one.

Particularly the Safety one and the one with how to properly fit it. I really like the vids on using a backup collar and why they will not sell quick release prongs it's something to seriously think about. There's also vids on e-collars and chokers which I haven't watched if you want an idea on those as well. I actually have not bought from them but the vids did help clear some stuff up.

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Thanks for the reply guys, it's interesting to see all the different techniques and tools everyone uses, I have taken classes where we used the choke collar however my puppy still pulls so I will speak to my trainer and see if he recommends me moving on to a prong collar or another tool...I decided to ask because I would want to buy something that will hurt my boy, so I'll keep trying with diferent methods and see what works best..thank you all

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That would have been due to pressure necrosis which is caused by the collar being left on the dog for an extreme length of time (think months) until it imbeds in the neck and becomes infected. I've seen horrific cases occur with flat collars. Abuse is in the user not the tool.

Prong collars are a super tool when used properly in the right circumstance, I've put one on myself many times and it isn't painful, you just feel the pressure. We've tested anti-pull harnesses and haven't found that the are anymore effective than training dogs on flat collars or martingales. At the end of the day all these things are, are simply tools, and they are ultimately only as effective as the handler and the training program we use them with. They provide you with leverage to implement training - dogs can learn to pull on any tool.

Even if it is the user and not the tool...90% of people aren't going to read a book or take a class to figure it out they are just going to use it :/

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My experience with prong collars:

They work and if they're fitted properly should NOT CAUSE DAMAGE. They were rather vital to getting the dogs walked when I was pregnant. However as soon as the prong is no longer on or used the pulling resumes. Switching between harnesses and collars and teaching the dogs when they should and shouldn't pull is something to work on. There isn't really a miracle fix it out there. There are alot of tools and a ton of work to be done though. Good Luck!

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Even if it is the user and not the tool...90% of people aren't going to read a book or take a class to figure it out they are just going to use it :/

While I think saying 90% of owners who use prong collars misuse them is a gross exaggeration, the same can be said for all tools. Prong collars are no more dangerous (even less so in some cases) than head collars; check chains; martingales etc. All tools can be misused. Abuse is in the user not the tool. :)

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