Ravenwolf Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 You have a contract with this woman to supply a huskamute. A contract consists of three elements: offer, acceptance and consideration. She offered for sale a huskamute which she said was a specific age. You accepted her offer to purchase the pup on the terms set out. You paid a deposit which is part of the consideration. If the pup is not a huskamute she has committed fraud. Fraud is an intentional deception (she intends to sell a pup to you which is not a huskamute)made for personal gain or to damage another individual; Fraud is a crime, and also a civil law violation therefore the Police must investigate if asked to do so, however I think you may get more luck by speaking to your Trading Standards Officer based at your local Council, especially if you think that this has happened previously. They will in any case be able to give you more indepth advice. Hope this helps and I am so sorry to hear of the troubles you are going through. Not nice, especially as you have children who will be excited. It is better to be cautious now, even if it means walking away from the pup as you don't know the history and you could be buying a pup with a load of expensive problems. I would question why such a young pup is still not with its mother to start with as this is the period of time when the pup is learning its social skills, including bite inhibition. This is true - IF there is a signed contract. If they only had a verbal agreement and Emma foolishly supplied a deposit without signing an agreement she has little ground to stand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowpups Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 She doesn't look like a huskamute to me but the pic is hard to tell all huskies and mals look different I would go tomo if things don't add up walk away you can't trust someone who lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 A contract does not have to be written. She has what is termed an implied contract. A verbal agreement, however what makes it a contract is that the three parts to the contract. It is therefore a legally enforceable agreement arising from the conduct of both parties. In this case buyer and seller and due to the fact a deposit has been paid there is a legal relationship amongst the immediate parties. An implied contract is when one party accepts a benefit from anotehr party in circumstances where the benefit (in this case cash deposit) cannot be considered to be a gift. This means that the party accepting the benefit (the seller) is under a legal obligation to give fair value for the benefit received. In this case the fair value for the benefit received is a huskamute puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLuka Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 This is true - IF there is a signed contract. If they only had a verbal agreement and Emma foolishly supplied a deposit without signing an agreement she has little ground to stand on. hopefully this is not the case. if so, unfortunately the lesson of never handing over money without some type of contract in place has been taught. I would question why such a young pup is still not with its mother to start with as this is the period of time when the pup is learning its social skills, including bite inhibition. that is my major question!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLuka Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 A contract does not have to be written. She has what is termed an implied contract. A verbal agreement, however what makes it a contract is that the three parts to the contract. It is therefore a legally enforceable agreement arising from the conduct of both parties. In this case buyer and seller and due to the fact a deposit has been paid there is a legal relationship amongst the immediate parties. An implied contract is when one party accepts a benefit from anotehr party in circumstances where the benefit (in this case cash deposit) cannot be considered to be a gift. This means that the party accepting the benefit (the seller) is under a legal obligation to give fair value for the benefit received. In this case the fair value for the benefit received is a huskamute puppy. it would be the breeders word against hers. the conversation wasn't recorded probably. I know when we make contracts for work over the phone we always record them for this general purpose. You don't want to wind up in a he said she said battle. hard to prove your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 unless of course you are "going equipped" lol as in if you re stopped on suspicion of burglary, you only have to be in posession of certain tools which would be advantageous in order to break in somewhere Indeed, stopped but not done for it. You would actually get done for the equipt you are carrying which would then be a crime committed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 it would be the breeders word against hers. the conversation wasn't recorded probably. I know when we make contracts for work over the phone we always record them for this general purpose. You don't want to wind up in a he said she said battle. hard to prove your side. Is she has a receipt for her deposit then this would be the necessary evidence. You are right it is much better to have a written contract, however the woman has invited her around to collect the pup and if she is wise she will get Trading Standards involved or an independent witness when she goes along. to collect the pup as if she doesn't want the pup because it is not as described she needs to get her money back. Also I am sure in your business dealings you inform the third party that you are recording the conversation. It is a sad state of affairs and hopefully others will learn from what has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLuka Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 oh yes, we must inform that we are recording the conversation. I would get Trading standards or a witness to accompany me as well if i were in her position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenwolf Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 A contract does not have to be written. She has what is termed an implied contract. A verbal agreement, however what makes it a contract is that the three parts to the contract. It is therefore a legally enforceable agreement arising from the conduct of both parties. In this case buyer and seller and due to the fact a deposit has been paid there is a legal relationship amongst the immediate parties. An implied contract is when one party accepts a benefit from anotehr party in circumstances where the benefit (in this case cash deposit) cannot be considered to be a gift. This means that the party accepting the benefit (the seller) is under a legal obligation to give fair value for the benefit received. In this case the fair value for the benefit received is a huskamute puppy. It's true that verbal contracts can be binding, but when there are only two involved and you have a he said/she said kind of situation it's difficult to prove. The "breeder" (and I use quotations because this is clearly a BYB scenario and thus use the term very loosely! ) can totally backpedal and say they thought their dog bred with a malamute and the pups were husky/malamute crosses to the best of her knowledge. Without a written agreement to back it up, there are many ways out of it and honestly going through legal pathways would cost more than it would be worth. Although, thinking more about it - and it depends on the way laws in Scotland work - if there is no contract, then there can likely be no "non-refundable" stipulation possible. No puppy - no payment, deposit or no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Jones Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Even without a receipt from the breeder/seller she will be able to get the deposit back as long as she’s got the advert she used to contact them. If its off the internet then print it out. Anything that states Huskamute with the sellers contact number on will be enough for trading standards to pursue the seller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 That is why it is important to get Trading Standards involved, because if this person has been trying this on before then they may have a record, or at least after this incident they will have a record on this person. One way to get a BYB stopped is through the Inland Revenue because if the person is breeding a significant number of puppies for financial gain then she needs to be registered with the Inland Revenue and not to be is a legal offence so she would then have them to deal with as well. And, as the saying goes, you can't cheat death or the taxman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Jones Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 you can't cheat death or the taxman. So true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-o-emz-o-x Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 I have changed the avatar pic to the other photo we have of her, She doesnt have any of the typical marking i have seen on other pups, the colour around the eyes or head. We did get to see Pedigree papers for both the mom and dad, 5th generation and 7th generation and her driving license to show the names have matched. Obviously i had my heart set on a Huskamute or siberian huskey, and if it was a collie cross it could take the collies looks.. and more or less look like a collie. My partner text the number tonight to see if the puppy was advertised for sale, she said it had been sold. Which is a little confusing. If the person was scamming then surely she would have offered the pup to him. Also she did say that they had 4 dogs living with them, The siberian Husky, Malamute father a Collie and a Jack Russel.... Bad times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 I have changed the avatar pic to the other photo we have of her, She doesnt have any of the typical marking i have seen on other pups, the colour around the eyes or head. We did get to see Pedigree papers for both the mom and dad, 5th generation and 7th generation and her driving license to show the names have matched. Obviously i had my heart set on a Huskamute or siberian huskey, and if it was a collie cross it could take the collies looks.. and more or less look like a collie. My partner text the number tonight to see if the puppy was advertised for sale, she said it had been sold. Which is a little confusing. If the person was scamming then surely she would have offered the pup to him. Also she did say that they had 4 dogs living with them, The siberian Husky, Malamute father a Collie and a Jack Russel.... Bad times could u post the pic on here, its abit small and hard to see in your avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Jones Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 The seller sounds honest, i dont think its a scam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-o-emz-o-x Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Sorry the photo is a bit large, i had to quickly upload it to FB to get a link to here Thoughts?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Sorry the photo is a bit large, i had to quickly upload it to FB to get a link to here Thoughts?? its not the best pic but *and im no expert* it does have a husky look about it , how old was it in the pic? (if its ears were up it would be easier to tell i think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Jones Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Chunky pup i'm sure it will be fine emma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLuka Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 it looks like it has husky in it to me. too soon to tell about the malamute. i'd need a better picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-o-emz-o-x Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 i took this pic 2 days ago when we saw her so she would be 7 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Jones Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 I think go for it........ She looks lovely i'm sure her ears will be up in no time. did they have anyother pups? how do they look? ears up or down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleLuka Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 can you post the other picture bigger on here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 i took this pic 2 days ago when we saw her so she would be 7 weeks. id go for it , she looks husky to me , even if shes got collie in her she looks mostly husky and im sure she will grow up to be such a gorgeous girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskies On The Go Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 I have just heard that i may have been scammed......... the more i look at nushka in her photo i am starting to think she is not a huskamute??? the person who we have bought her from says she also owns a collie.... i have asked her if nushkas parents will be there an she has now informed me that dad isnt and mum may not be!! i feel sick that i may have been scammed and my son is heart broken. can you please look at my picture and let me know if you think she is a huskamute?? Thanks everyone Well I know how you feel about being scammed, when I was back in FL I was offered two very beautiful huskies and Oh I wanted them so bad, but in reality they were NOT huskies they were MUTS and my friend tolded me that those type of people that they say they have huskies but they were people that get your credit card number and take and buy with it, there's more to the story but I won't go into it. But I'm not so sure about your husky because the image well can't truly make it out, so sorry if you have other image I can take a look at it and I might be able to tell you if so and if not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-o-emz-o-x Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Hi, I have attached the previous avatar picture so you can take a look at it, it is a good angle as you can see the face shape pretty well. My partner thinks if we can get the pup we should take it, as even if it does have collie in it, it would grow to be a beautiful dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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