BAGRI Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 What do you guys think of electronic collars? There's one dog that I always see on my walks that has very good recall. The owners live by their shock collar and they say it works wonders. They have a German shorthaired pointer. They got it from cabellas which costed them around 600 dollars! Do these work on huskies as they are pretty hard headed? Could it help with recall training? Mika is great indoors with most commands but right when we step outside not even the tastiest treats will motivate him to listen. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAGRI Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Oh and the collar isn't solely a shock collar it can be set to either shock or let out a distinct sound which can also be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebe03 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wouldn't use one as don't agree with E collars personally as I've seen the damage they can cause if used incorrectly. It's safer to practice recall in an secure environment such as your back yard and to allow your dog off lead in secure areas such as the dog park. Good luck with whatever you decide to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutsibe Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 They can be effective if used properly - the dog has to KNOW what's wanted, first, and the timing of the correction has to be perfect, as well. I think that with a Siberian and recall training, it would be more likely to make them bolt. I think you'd do better training with a long lead, instead, so that you can enforce the command to come by grabbing or stepping on a trailing lead and stopping them. As they learn that the lead is always long enough you can catch them, you could switch to a lighter line that is still long (STEP on it, don't grab, if it's likely to burn your hands! You can put knots in it at intervals to help keep it from slipping from under your foot.), and if your goal is to have him off leash, you can gradually shorten it. As long as any time he tries to take off on you, you can stop him, and you take enough time about shortening it, he should learn or at least believe that you're able to catch him. It's much easier to teach a dog that hasn't ever learned the lesson that he/she can take off, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephona Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Having tried an electric collar a long while ago, I can say that I am not convinced of how well it would work for a husky. I remember one particular instance when he was off-leash and we called him back. He just sat there and stared at us even when the collar was turned on. He was quite unresponsive and then casually started strolling in the other direction (mind you, he had been trained and knew very well what he was supposed to do; also we had a knowledgeable trainer, we weren't just trying this on our own). Thankfully he also had a training lead on so we got him back easily. But still, just goes to show that an e-collar is far from infallible. After that, we gave up on it as it seemed quite useless and I didn't like the idea of an e-collar anyway. The bottom line is that I find it quite useless with a husky, well, at least with ours. I think 600$ is very expensive even for a shock collar and unless you keep it on all the time, a husky will figure out the fact that he can do whatever he pleases when the collar is not on. Personally, I don't think it's worth the investment. You'd be better off just using positive training methods, even though I have to admit you would get faster results with an e-collar. But in my opinion, it is always better to have the dog come back because he wants to opposed to doing it because he will be punished with an electric shock. I think that even the most disinterested of dogs can be motivated somehow to listen you, even in high distraction environments. You just have to find the right method. I would recommend, rather than spending money on a (worthless) e-collar, finding a good trainer that will help you motivate Mika and make him listen to you outdoors. If you get an e-collar, you would need a trainer anyway to show you how to use it. There are also many training books out there that explain how you can catch your dog's attention when he/she is very distracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollynDiesel Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I think they probably do work, if used properly. Dont go shocking or whatever at every little thing that goes wrong or the poor dog will be a nervous wreck! But Yh i think IF used properly they can be a good training aid, but i'd still go for a long leash. Personally because if he did what i said then i'd feel like i've achieved more than if i used an Ecollar but thats just me Good luck with whatever you decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staceybob Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Here's my solution! *Hands you a 100ft lead*. Ta Da! Lol. Nah in all seriousness though, I support the kennel club trying to get them banned in the UK. Stacey xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husky princess Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 google pictures of dogs being burnt by them if that isnt enough try one on yourself and then deside whether its humane on a dog. i dont get why anyone would even consider it. sibes are known for their pants recall whihc is why the recommendation is to keep on lead at all times (or secure area). causing pain/shock is not an option in my opinion. any would they work if a husky decided to run off and hunt a bunny...not a chance i would say. their desire to run and hunt would be greater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I use a shock collar on both my German Shepard and my husky. It has worked wonders for us. I did a lot of research before trying it, resounding to timing, training etc. The beginning is the most difficult thing to start off with, as I had to use mine perfectly and as little as possible. My husky is very very intelligent (as this breed is known to be) and caught on very quickly. It has worked wonders for my husky's recall and his dog aggression issues; to the point where I don't even use it any more. Sometimes I take him out without even turning it on as I am confident both my dogs know how they are supposed to behave. I agree in that it is difficult to watch them suffer while using, but in the end it has made our lives a lot easier and their lives a lot safer since now they are trained they know what is expected of them. My German Shepard frankly isn't as intelligent as my husky but her loyalty allows me to never use the collar on her as her recall is superb. It really does depend on your husky's ability to grasp the concept of the shock collar. I would do research on it and I'm happy you asked this question on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BingBlaze n Skyla Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 i personally wouldnt , i love my 100ft leads and have managed to teach an ok recall on them - its a work in progress - but they are huskies so something is better then nothing - and i would only use the recall for emergancies tho - i wouldnt let them offlead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I personally haven't used one (nor would I), but I've heard of people's dogs developing psychological issues because their owners weren't using the e-collars properly or the setting was too high. And, I also heard that huskies don't respond well to e-collars because they quickly learn that if they run fast enough they can escape the range of the remote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAGRI Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thanks for the responses. I have a long lead but it gets really annoying when it gets tangled with other dogs and people at the park. I won't be using an e collar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Melsom Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I dont agree with using pain to teach anything and I dont agree with E collars. I dont think they would always work on a husky...they are going to do what they are going to do and one day they will find when they get far enough it doesnt work anymore. Terrible medieval invention imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazz Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Since the original poster has had their question replied to and is satisfied, and made a decision based on those replies, let's keep the topic civil as it has been so far. Sent from my HTC Desire using forumrunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 What do you guys think of electronic collars? There's one dog that I always see on my walks that has very good recall. The owners live by their shock collar and they say it works wonders. They have a German shorthaired pointer. They got it from cabellas which costed them around 600 dollars! Do these work on huskies as they are pretty hard headed? Could it help with recall training? Mika is great indoors with most commands but right when we step outside not even the tastiest treats will motivate him to listen. Thanks. Hi Bagri I use a Dogtra Surestim e-collar, it retails for around the $700 mark, a good quality e-collar will cost a lot of money but they are worth it if you use it correctly. There is a lot of misunderstanding about remote training collars and a lot of misinformation spread about them, the way I use my collar is not about hurting the dog or causing it pain but finding the lowest perceivable level on the collar for the dog (so the stim they can only just feel) and teaching the dog what that sensation means, and that they have the power to turn it off. My collar has 127 levels and my dog usually works on around level 12-16. Most people can't feel the level my dog works on. Anyone who whacks the collar on their dog and takes it to the park and lets it off and stims it expecting the collar to work is not using it properly, I actually start training the dog to respond to the collar on a long line in low distraction environment first. You have to teach the dog what the stim means and how to turn it off before you get to the point where you'd let them off leash even in a low distraction environment. I rarely ever use physical corrections in training, I rarely ever even use a leash or collar in training but that's why I decided to use the e-collar - because it's the most gentle and subtle correction you can give your dog and IMO is the most effective tool. My dog already had a good recall and was great off leash but she wasn't what I consider 100% reliable with her recall so I used the e-collar to get that last bit of reliability. Also, just because you use an e-collar does not mean you can't also use positive reinforcement. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I always reward my dog for responding to commands even when using the e-collar. If anyone has any questions on using remote trainers please feel free to ask, I'm happy to answer any that anyone has google pictures of dogs being burnt by them if that isnt enough try one on yourself and then deside whether its humane on a dog. i dont get why anyone would even consider it. HP can you share these pics please? E-collars can't burn dogs, it's not possible. My guess is what you've see in those pics is collar necrosis, when the collar being left on for weeks/months and not being taken off, it can (and does) happen with flat collars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 ANY arguements the topic will be closed and people warned ... Sorry for the abrupt response but same topic has ended in disaster over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hi Bagri I use a Dogtra Surestim e-collar, it retails for around the $700 mark, a good quality e-collar will cost a lot of money but they are worth it if you use it correctly. There is a lot of misunderstanding about remote training collars and a lot of misinformation spread about them, the way I use my collar is not about hurting the dog or causing it pain but finding the lowest perceivable level on the collar for the dog (so the stim they can only just feel) and teaching the dog what that sensation means, and that they have the power to turn it off. My collar has 127 levels and my dog usually works on around level 12-16. Most people can't feel the level my dog works on. Anyone who whacks the collar on their dog and takes it to the park and lets it off and stims it expecting the collar to work is not using it properly, I actually start training the dog to respond to the collar on a long line in low distraction environment first. You have to teach the dog what the stim means and how to turn it off before you get to the point where you'd let them off leash even in a low distraction environment. I rarely ever use physical corrections in training, I rarely ever even use a leash or collar in training but that's why I decided to use the e-collar - because it's the most gentle and subtle correction you can give your dog and IMO is the most effective tool. My dog already had a good recall and was great off leash but she wasn't what I consider 100% reliable with her recall so I used the e-collar to get that last bit of reliability. Also, just because you use an e-collar does not mean you can't also use positive reinforcement. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I always reward my dog for responding to commands even when using the e-collar. If anyone has any questions on using remote trainers please feel free to ask, I'm happy to answer any that anyone has HP can you share these pics please? E-collars can't burn dogs, it's not possible. My guess is what you've see in those pics is collar necrosis, when the collar being left on for weeks/months and not being taken off, it can (and does) happen with flat collars. Collar necrosis? Never heard of that and Suka hasn't gotten it and his collar has been on for 2 years (almost straight!). Although, he has a thick mane so its comfortable and doesn't chafe, but still...now I'm worried. :/ I guess we all have our opinions, but its up to the OP to decide what they want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I dont agree with using pain to teach anything and I dont agree with E collars. I dont think they would always work on a husky...they are going to do what they are going to do and one day they will find when they get far enough it doesnt work anymore. Terrible medieval invention imo. Just wanted to add, my e-collar has a range of 800metres so a dog would have to be very far away from you for the collar not to work. I've never had that be an issue for me or anyone I know, though, and with the amount of training and proofing you do before having a dog off leash I can't imagine that actually happening if you've trained it properly. And just to lighten the thread, I think it's funny people refer to e-collars as medieval, when they are pretty complex electronic tools LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Collar necrosis? Never heard of that and Suka hasn't gotten it and his collar has been on for 2 years (almost straight!). Although, he has a thick mane so its comfortable and doesn't chafe, but still...now I'm worried. :/ Have you ever watched any of those Animal Cop shows on TV? They rescue dogs with collar necrosis quite regularly, the dogs have to have surgery to have their collars removed. It's horrible, but only happens in cases of extreme neglect, it wouldn't happen to a someone like yourself who is a responsible owner. ETA: You might hear it referred to as pressure necrosis as well. I guess we all have our opinions, but its up to the OP to decide what they want to do. Absolutely, hence why I posted to share my experience with using the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Melsom Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just wanted to add, my e-collar has a range of 800metres so a dog would have to be very far away from you for the collar not to work. I've never had that be an issue for me or anyone I know, though, and with the amount of training and proofing you do before having a dog off leash I can't imagine that actually happening if you've trained it properly. And just to lighten the thread, I think it's funny people refer to e-collars as medieval, when they are pretty complex electronic tools LOL I ment as in torture buts its your own choice if you want to use one I was just giving my opinion ^.^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I ment as in torture buts its your own choice if you want to use one I was just giving my opinion ^.^ One of my favourite "party tricks" is putting my e-collar on people who get really scared about getting "shocked" and are scared about how much it will hurt, and then having them say "Ok just do it and get it over with!" only for me to reply I've already stimmed them a dozen times and they just haven't felt it LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephona Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 One of my favourite "party tricks" is putting my e-collar on people who get really scared about getting "shocked" and are scared about how much it will hurt, and then having them say "Ok just do it and get it over with!" only for me to reply I've already stimmed them a dozen times and they just haven't felt it LOL Now I am well aware that if properly used, the e-collar is by no means a torture device. I was wondering about something though. Why would the e-collar make the recall perfect? Granted, you can correct the dog gently and in a subtle way. But you have still invested time into that training and taught your dog to respond to such a low level correction. So the dog is already in the right frame of mind. If the dog would decide to run away, then you apply the correction and he comes back, but what guarantees the fact he will come back is not necessarily the e-collar and the low level correction, but all the training you have invested in this. Then why get an e-collar in the first place? I hope I managed to get my point across. I am not a trainer, but this something I am interested in. As I said, after my experience, I am that convinced of the infallibility of an e-collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Now I am well aware that if properly used, the e-collar is by no means a torture device. I was wondering about something though. Why would the e-collar make the recall perfect? Granted, you can correct the dog gently and in a subtle way. But you have still invested time into that training and taught your dog to respond to such a low level correction. So the dog is already in the right frame of mind. If the dog would decide to run away, then you apply the correction and he comes back, but what guarantees the fact he will come back is not necessarily the e-collar and the low level correction, but all the training you have invested in this. Then why get an e-collar in the first place? I hope I managed to get my point across. I am not a trainer, but this something I am interested in. As I said, after my experience, I am that convinced of the infallibility of an e-collar. It's probably easiest to explain my reasoning by describing why I chose to use the e-collar - I already had a dog who is very reliable off leash when we are 'working', and very reliable off leash when I was just letting her run around and enjoy herself. She's a scent hound with an incredibly high scent drive and her recall pre e-collar training was probably what I'd consider around 90-95%. That means 90-95% of the time she'd come when I called her within two seconds of me giving the command (and I only ever give the command once. If I had to give a second command I would consider that a 'fail' even if she did come back the second time). However, I wanted that last bit of reliability. The only time she wouldn't come was when she was so stuck on a scent, she literally could not hear me calling her and would get a surprise if I walked up to her. The way I use the e-collar involves first teaching the dog what the stim means, and how responding to it in a certain way will turn it off. When training recall with the e-collar I don't use any commands to begin with because I want to know for sure that it's the stim that cues the recall and the stim the dog is responding to, not my command. When we do introduce the command back, we stim the dog before giving the command, and the dog is the one that turns the stim off by responding. It's not a correction for failing to respond to the recall command, the stim is the cue for the recall. Using the e-collar with my dog allowed me to communicate with her more clearly when she was really stuck on a scent, regardless of how far away I am and if she could actually hear me calling her, it has given her recall that much more reliability. It's not a tool you can whack on and just use (not that there's really any that you can do that with) but I've seen MANY dogs trained to recall using e-collars and it's one of the fastest ways of training a reliable recall regardless of the age, breed, history etc of the dog you are working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Melsom Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 One of my favourite "party tricks" is putting my e-collar on people who get really scared about getting "shocked" and are scared about how much it will hurt, and then having them say "Ok just do it and get it over with!" only for me to reply I've already stimmed them a dozen times and they just haven't felt it LOL well that doesnt seem effective how does it work then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 well that doesnt seem effective how does it work then? The stim is used as a cue, as I've explained in my other posts in this thread, the dog's working level is the lowest perceivable level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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