Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Are/should they be held in the same regard as wolf hybrids for how dangerous/unpredictable/difficult etc etc they are or can be? Or, are they domesticated enough that they are on par with Sibes and mals? One love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think they should be treated like wolf-dog hybrids. I think most of their lines are still bred with wolves every now and then, although maybe that's just a rumour. Also, they are very rare breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think they should be treated like wolf-dog hybrids. I think most of their lines are still bred with wolves every now and then, although maybe that's just a rumour. Also, they are very rare breeds. thanks for your response Ive not heard much on them to be honest. I know that theyre further away from wolves that wolf hybrids, but im definatley interested in learning more about them. I mean, im interested in possibly owning one one day, but mainly at the minute - just want to learn Im quite a geek really and like learning lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 In 1921, Dutch breeder Leendert Saarloos started crossbreeding a German Shepherd Dog male to a female Mackenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis). He aimed for an improved version of the German Shepherd Dog which would be immune to distemper, and succeeded insofar that the Saarlooswolfdog we know is a strong imposing dog, but it kept its wolflike characteristics; it is cautious, reserved and lacks the ferocity to attack; it is not the dog that Leendert Saarloos hoped to get. His theory was also proven wrong, as nearly all the first generation hybrids succumbed to distemper. Until Leendert Saarloos died in 1969, he was in full control over the breeding of his "European wolfdog". The Dutch Kennel Club recognized the breed in 1975. To honor its creator they changed the name to "Saarlooswolfdog". In 1981 the breed was recognized by the Fédération Cynologique Internationale (FCI). In the past, some Saarlooswolfdogs were trained as guide dogs for the blind and as rescue dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 It is considered a Wolf Dog Hybrid, and although they can be calm and non-aggressive that tendancy is there as with all wolf hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizadora Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Established_wolfdog_breed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Would any that are bred today not be more than 5 gens removed from full wolves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Found some info about the Saarloos: Living with an Saarloos Wolfdog The double coated fur should be brushed once a week; the dog does rather not smell. Raising the young dog requests patience: the dogs grow very fast and seem & look to be far more grown up than they really are. That makes the owner tend to ask too much of the young dog both in obedience and endurance. You should stay to short walks with long breaks; additionally do a lot of playing (in and outside the house). Why do so? A puppy with healthy instincts will do everything to stay with you. Even if it's really exhausted, it will struggle with all ist power to follow you. By the time the pup lies down and refuses to go any further, all jonts and ligaments are very outpowered and it is possible that irreversible damage has happened! The pup behaves this way because the instincts tell "you'll be left alone for dying!". If you read or see documentational material about wild dogs or wolves, you'll soon to learn that the youngsters stay "at home" until they are about 7 months old. Therefore stick to playing in and around your house - the puppy will quit playing as soon as it is tired, then. Since the adult Saarloos is a tall dog (75 cm), his need for moving (trotting) makes him an ideal dog for the countryside or the outer urban areas, where there is lot of free space to run. There it can be what it is: a dog, and satisfy his great need for running. Unfortunately the Saarloos often is a very passionate hunter, able to catch small animals and game( e.g. sick rabbits or mice). Fortunately he never makes the mistake to think a child being "dinner"! The Saarloos is absolutely peacful against humans! As long as not threatened to death, with no escape to see, he will not bite but always run away! This long-legged dog needs lots of mental and pyhysical activties. Walks cannot be long enough. His body is shaped for long endurance work. Long distance Tests (20 km = 13 miles) are nothing but jokes! The Saarloos is a very late developping dog - due to his wolf-ancestors. The female´s first heat seldom takes place before age of 1, often not before they reach their 15th month of lifetime. The interval between two heats is more or less 12 months, lasting longer than normal: up to 6 weeks. Males are late in maturing. Often they do not rise the leg while urinating before they are 1 year old. In a pack - if the male has a low rank - he may never lift up a leg. But nevertheless a Saarloos Wolfdog is a DOG and not a wolf! It is a breed with a strong selection on character. Competently risen, the Saarloos will doubtless respect the dominant positions of his human pack members. Problems with dominating Saarloos are very rare. They show a very good social behaviour and they totally lack the will to attack humans. Towards strange persons and / or circumstances they react suspicious or even shy. They adore their family and like to be with them all the time and everywhere! They cannot stand being left alone for longer periods - except they have been trained to from the first day on. Otherwise the can show very strong separation anxiety and turn to be very destructive then. They are no dogs to be locked up in a kennel: the pack-bondage is very strong, they need to have close contact with their human leaders. (Keeping dogs in kennels for main time is antisocial and a cruelty anyway!) This separation anxiety, when suddenly left alone, must be understood: a dog is in his psychological developement like a young wolf: dependent on the care of his adult pack members. Being lost means injury and death, so the young wolf will move heaven and earth to stay with his pack, to be safe. They are very peacful with other dogs, they do not like fighting but love to play with all friendly dogs. Having some dam´s will make it different. Obviously breeding means climbing up the ranking, so the dam will not stand any other female with the same ranking. Most of the time these females must be seperated from each other for all time when not supervised by humans. Its strategy of survival is to keep itself away from risky situations with humans. You cannot count on it to defend you. But therefore you can be sure it will never attack anyone. Maybe he will chase bikers, but does no harm to them. Believe it or not: Saarloos Wolfdogs are no fear-biters! Nevertheless will the self-confident Saarloos try to become leader in his family, if it has the impression that the humans fail. But even then their aggression is very low. Normal reaction toward strangers: coming into the house, they warn you with "barking" (sounds like this coughing wolves utter in similar situations). If the stranger does not leave, they back off. After a period of time it will come near to sniff on the strangers clothes. Same thing on a walk: after passing the stranger in a wide circle, they will follow him, to reach his rear end and shortly sniff at the clothes. As a family-companion the Saarloos is an ideal dog. Very indulgent with children, enduring their "caresses" without growling. If it gets too hard, they simply walk away or seek shelter at their owners side. With the own familiy and close friends the Saarloos shows nothing of the caution that it shows towards strangers. At home it bahaves as normal as any dog, asking for lot of love. It can also be a very cheeky fellow : respectless. It is important so mention this, because many guys think the Saarloos being as shy with me as it is with them. far from that! The relationship is bulid up with trust on both sides. The Saarloos is sure, nothing his owner asks of him will embarras or even endager it. With this base, a Saarloos will do all for you! Without this trust, the Saarloos Wolfdog will miss lot of self-confidence. It is hard work, but it pays! Plan the learning period, avoid any uncontrolled conditions and protect the puppy. Meeting new people, the Saarloos wants to take the first step! Best is to ignore the dog until it cannot stand any longer to come near. Although it is very cautious, the Saarloos is very curious too. Besides they recognize immediately wheter someone likes them or not or if he even is scared. In general (without being sexist ;-), Saarloos tend to like women more than men. Maybe this is caused on the higher tone of voice and the women´s more intuitive acting. This was only taken from one website, though, so you might want to cross-check your information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Found some info about the Saarloos: This was only taken from one website, though, so you might want to cross-check your information. thanks!! im just watching something on tv, then im gonna read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Found some info about the Saarloos: This was only taken from one website, though, so you might want to cross-check your information. Love this post, thanks for the info Im gonna keep looking and researching. When i say i would like to bring one into the family, im not talking anytime soon, but the Saarloos does strike me as a breed that i would possibly like in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 They should both be regarded as domestic dog breeds. Like all dog breeds they have their particular characters and instincts, but they are far enough removed from wolves not to be regarded as hybrids. As far as I am aware, both breeds, likes sibes, are not ideal for inexperienced owners, and unlike the sibe, can be very shy which can sometimes manifest itself in fear aggression. Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow01 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 They can be more demanding than a Sibe, but then again they can be less head work lol. You need to be very strong willed and lots and lots of patients. But then saying that they are a lot more trainable having been even used as guide dogs in Europe. There are several people over here now owning and breeding them. It is in my understanding that they used to be a restricted breed over here, but after much championing of the breed, also that European dogs were able to be brought over here for Crufts expos, they are now allowed to be owned here without DEFRA intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_p Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Coincidentally, I pointed this forum out to a group of people who own Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, so they might join up and give some inside information! Here's some photos from a recent walk I had with some... The one on the left is 88% Czech wolfdog (12% N Inuit) the huge monster on the right is plain N Inuit Same dogs as above + a malamute and a huskamute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed #3 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 we have 2 timberwolf x husky we treat them the same as a husky but are more powerfull they are 50/50 % x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_p Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 And just for fun here's the CSV colliding with my GSD foster, Simba. The CSV cross may look ferocious, but the two played beautifully all afternoon. He's only eight months old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robke Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 what a beauty of a pic Mike.. the only thing I know about saarloos dogs is that they can be very one owner dogs, and in that point be very protective. At least that is what I was told by a local guy who used to own one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 we have 2 timberwolf x husky we treat them the same as a husky but are more powerfull they are 50/50 % x As 1st generation hybrids, I assume your dogs are licensed with DEFRA. Is that a complicated process? What restrictions do they put upon the dogs? Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed #3 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 As 1st generation hybrids, I assume your dogs are licensed with DEFRA. Is that a complicated process? What restrictions do they put upon the dogs? Mick they are dogs not wolfs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Angel n Auroras Mum Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 as far as im concerned Petes dogs don't need any restrictions on them, they are as friendly as any husky you will meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-wolfdogs.pdf that might be worth a read. As I hate to say it but it is illegal to own wolf hybrids in this country without a license. So riot chaos demon anarchy mayhem it may be worth removing your last post mate, never know what beady eyes read these forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 http://archive.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/wildlife/protect/documents/dwa-wolfdogs.pdf that might be worth a read. As I hate to say it but it is illegal to own wolf hybrids in this country without a license. So riot chaos demon anarchy mayhem it may be worth removing your last post mate, never know what beady eyes read these forums I agree. I think it's illegal in Canada to own a wolfdog without a license either, no matter what percentage it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow01 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes Pete no matter what if they are 'just dogs' to you, any dog that has been crossed with a wolf needs to be reg with DEFRA as it will be classed as a hybrid. They will impose very strict guidelines as to what you can and cant do with your dogs. So I would either delete your post and also not tell too many people locally unless you want the dog warden to come knocking :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I hate to agree Pete but theyre right But that said, your dudes are so so soft! I loved your guy at the Sutton meet. Such a soft arse. Is the offer to try walk him still open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon&Sophia Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 So, the consensus seems to be that they are indeed domesticated dogs, and not considered hybrids? Which is kinda what i thought after some research. Also, the trainability is on par (?) with Sibes, although different in some aspects, as in; 'easier' in some ways, while some characteristics are more 'difficult'? After a lot of reading, it sounds like Czechs are abit closer to wolves than Saarloos? Like, the owner needs to be a bit more wary of their possible wolf like nature? Im still speaking subjectively here, please note. Lol. I would love one in the future though i still think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow01 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I wouldnt say the owner really needs to be wary of the wolf ness, its more likely to matierialise to strangers by being aloof and wary. Pacing and circling someone might appear threatening to someone not in the know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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