Removed #5 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 What will happen if she turns around one day and bites you because you have "trained her". as required by Ohio law, quarantined for 14 days for diagnosis of rabies and then destroyed. Unlike many other states, Ohio doesn't even have the common law one bite rule. If a dog bites, with certain very strict exceptions, it's impounded and destroyed. Also, again with very specific exceptions "Ohio's dog bite statute establishes an owner's liability without regard to the owner's negligence, and sets forth specific exceptions to that liability. Because of the statute's specificity, assumption of the risk is not a permissible defense to an action for a dog bite brought pursuant to R.C. 955.28. Pulley v. Malek, 25 Ohio St.3d 95, 495 N.E.2d 402 (Ohio 07/23/1986); see also Quellos v. Quellos (Ohio Ct. App. 1994), 643 N.E.2d 1173." Loose translation - if your dog bites someone in Ohio your are entirely responsible<period>. Just spent the last couple of hours reading Ohio's dog laws (Ohio Revised Codes, § 955 btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Sinley Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Sorta sad you'd look that far into it, take into consideration how many police actually follow the full extent of the law? The dog warden maybe but if the circumstance is explained. Also i like how you tried to turn it around on me what if one day she bites me, honestly. Some day she may nail me, whats the problem their? She's my dog an if I was at fault for her biting me then I was at fault am i gonna call the dog warden on myself? No? What I'm trying to do here is the same that police do with the K9 unit, only in husky form. So quit putting me down when your superiors under law are, do, and have done, the same exact thing. There is leniency with dog bites down here, there is a three bite rule with the police regardless you have to have record of the dog bite incident an you can reobtain custody of the dog after all is said an done. So once again I AM NOT trying to get my dog to randomly attack people as you keep accusing me of doing. She is NOT child agressive, if she was she'd have shown signs against the 2year old and 4 year old that live with me. Quit putting your own personal opinions into it. I'm asking for ADVICE not a lecture, nor does this constitute consistently downing what I want to do. It's possible and you all know it is but you refuse to freking just admit it through your own biased biggotry, though some of you may just be the pot callin the kettle black. Either way. ..Btw I already know I'm liable for dog bites? You just wasted your time to tell me something I already knew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Ok then. How about you explain to us what methods you are using to train her as an attack dog and where you found the information detailed enough to do so? The link you posted above about attack training clearly says the best way to do it is to get a professional to help you, is that what you are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanya-Meika&Keeva Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 You say you came here for advice? People have given it to you. What you are really wanting is for people to tell you what your planning to do is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Sinley Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Theres nothing wrong with what I'm doing I don't need an okay I was wanting methods of how to train but alls I'm getting is bullshit in the process. I've got her 'watching' her toys and tell her to 'get it' when I want her to tear it up. She's doing okay with it..I let me friend hit me an tell her to watch her, untill she hits me hard enough for me to say ow then I tell her to get her...Except my friend does all the grooming on her so it doesn't work to well with two people she trusts going at it lol.. She's almost ready for sleeve training. I wanted advice on better ways to get to to do what I want. I did not want, closed minded half baked lectures on why it's wrong, I did not want to see "oh i feel sorry for your dog" and "maybe she sees the owner as not worth protecting" I'm trying to be mature about this -.- Wish others would do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed #5 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 You want us to tell you that what you're doing is fine and to help you. Most (all??) of us do not agree that it's fine; sorry guy, you're not going to get the "support" that you're looking for from me. Personally I agree with "troll" I'm done with this ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Sinley Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 You want us to tell you that what you're doing is fine and to help you. Most (all??) of us do not agree that it's fine; sorry guy, you're not going to get the "support" that you're looking for from me. Personally I agree with "troll" I'm done with this ..... Right..read above, I'm not asking to be told it's fine. It IS fine, look at police dogs, as I said. Just because it's a different breed doesn't make it the same. Freaking Pomeranian bite people for no reason at all at least I'm training mine when it is and isn't okay too. No wonder dogs go off an snap on people because they got pent up aggression and don't know when it is and isn't okay to vent it or have owners that deal with it. Get over it. Troll? Rightt..I'm a troll for wanting to do something a bunch of bigots don't wanna do just because they don't believe in it well, that's fine with me but don't impose your own training techniques on me, I was here to learn but I'm only getting personal opinions against it OVER something helpful like pointing me in the direction of where I WOULD do something like this. I'll go to another forum maybe more open minded to seek help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid&BellaNTX Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Wait...did one of the regulars sign up as an alias and post up just to get a "rise" out of the board? Because this post seems to be a little too ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Theres nothing wrong with what I'm doing I don't need an okay I was wanting methods of how to train but alls I'm getting is bullshit in the process. I've got her 'watching' her toys and tell her to 'get it' when I want her to tear it up. She's doing okay with it..I let me friend hit me an tell her to watch her, untill she hits me hard enough for me to say ow then I tell her to get her...Except my friend does all the grooming on her so it doesn't work to well with two people she trusts going at it lol.. She's almost ready for sleeve training. I wanted advice on better ways to get to to do what I want. Ok then. Let's assume you ARE serious. Do you have a mentor or experienced trainer helping you? Training an "attack dog" is complex work that takes a long time and a lot of knowledge to do properly. I am sure you want to make sure that the training you are doing with your dog is not going to ruin her beyond repair, because I have seen dogs ruined with bad PP training and it is literally your worst nightmare. I recommend signing up to your local Schutzhund club or going there and asking them some questions. Schutzhund work is not exactly the same as training a PP dog, but it will put you in touch with people who know about this kind of training. If you think she's "almost ready" for the bite sleeve then I'd assume she has a very high and workable prey drive that you have developed so she reliably triggers into drive with a vocal command and can maintain drive for a good period of time. Having control whislt she is in prey drive is crucial. You'd then go from a tug toy to a bite pillow not direct to a bite sleeve. But you know everything, so I am sure you already knew that. The reality is that genetically, your dog is not going to have the drive and nerves necessary to complete this kind of training. There is a reason that Siberians are NOT used as police dogs. If you really knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be asking for advice on why your dog is failing to "bite" when you are "getting hit". The answer is obvious. ETA: If she has any decent prey drive and ok nerves you could do some prey drive work with her - won't be the same at all as doing attack work but it will give you good obedience - I teach people in my classes all the time how to use prey drive to their advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyse Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 If you want to train her well, and you're serious about this and you will not reconsider - get professional help. A professional guard/attack dog trainer will be more beneficial to you and her. Sure - it's more expensive, but the training will be done properly like a guard dog should be trained. The professional trainer, if they know their stuff, will teach you how to do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Sinley Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Ok then. Let's assume you ARE serious. Do you have a mentor or experienced trainer helping you? Training an "attack dog" is complex work that takes a long time and a lot of knowledge to do properly. I am sure you want to make sure that the training you are doing with your dog is not going to ruin her beyond repair, because I have seen dogs ruined with bad PP training and it is literally your worst nightmare. I recommend signing up to your local Schutzhund club or going there and asking them some questions. Schutzhund work is not exactly the same as training a PP dog, but it will put you in touch with people who know about this kind of training. If you think she's "almost ready" for the bite sleeve then I'd assume she has a very high and workable prey drive that you have developed so she reliably triggers into drive with a vocal command and can maintain drive for a good period of time. Having control whislt she is in prey drive is crucial. You'd then go from a tug toy to a bite pillow not direct to a bite sleeve. But you know everything, so I am sure you already knew that. The reality is that genetically, your dog is not going to have the drive and nerves necessary to complete this kind of training. There is a reason that Siberians are NOT used as police dogs. If you really knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be asking for advice on why your dog is failing to "bite" when you are "getting hit". The answer is obvious. ETA: If she has any decent prey drive and ok nerves you could do some prey drive work with her - won't be the same at all as doing attack work but it will give you good obedience - I teach people in my classes all the time how to use prey drive to their advantage. If I could've gotten that from the start instead of 'you can't/you won't/you're disgusting" everyone would've been cool Thank you for the information it's a great help and puts things more into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I suspect the OP is reluctant to get professional help because he'll be told his dog is not suitable for bite work, if he hasn't been told that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Please don't take my post as an instruction on how to train an attack dog. It was meant to demonstrate the fact you do not know what you are doing. PLEASE stop trying to train your dog to bite at least until you get professional help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laine Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Wow... Okay, William? Despite all the advice from the others, I'm going to take you seriously. Your original post was: "I have my friend mess around with me to try an get a rise out of Selene..so far she just runs in around me in circles. She's also horrible differentiating between 'watch' and 'get it' since she wants to get what shes watching..I mean granted someone comes over that isn't here often she starts barking or when she hears loud noises from downstairs. Considering she's the first dog I've ever had I'm not sure how to go about training her..She's gotten more protective in the past few months. She will be a year old on the 23rd..But don't hurt to ask" Okay, first question, why? Why are you training your dog to bite/attack? Are you doing so to train for protection sports - Schutzhund, French Ring, Mondio Ring, etc? - or are you doing it just to do it? Secondly - her running around in circles is because, as was mentioned before, she thinks it's a game, nothing more. The fact she's horrible differentiating between "watch" and "get it" is not because she doesn't get it, it's because she's a husky. Husky attention spans are like this. "My master is calling I should-OHPRETTYSHINYMUSTGOSEE!" With a lot of work and proper training, Huskies can do things like Agility and flyball and Obedience and even Rally. As others have said, Siberians do NOT have the temperament needed to be any kind of guard/attack/protection sport dogs. It's just not in them. For those very FEW who do naturally bite, yes they should be trained but not to encourage the biting, but to curb it. From the sounds of it, William, you are FORCING this dog to actually learn this behavior, which is counter to its breed. That is not how it's done in ANY kind of protection or protection sport training. If you went to any true protection trainer or protection sport trainer, you would have your behind seriously handed to you for doing this to your dog. A dog - any breed - that does protection work must have the MENTALITY to do it. Sibes naturally do not. In a properly controlled training environment for any kind of bite work/protection work, it isn't just people "messing around". They are professionals trained in how to get the dog going, and they are wearing proper bite suits for THEIR protection. From the stuff I've read that you've posted, it's not real but you are just "messing around". This is dangerous. You are teaching a dog to bite without any knowledge of what you're doing or why. You are actually creating a DANGEROUS situation not just for you and the dog, but anyone else around you as well. You might think your sibe is learning things properly, but I guarantee you she's not from the posts you've put up here. I know people who do protection sport work and what they tell me that goes into their dog's training is not "messing around" but serious, hard mental and physical work. If you want a protection type dog, then get a breed known for it. I've even seen off-breed dogs do Schutzhund - a lab in one instance, a terrier (Jack Russell I think) in another - so I won't say that it's totally impossible for off breeds to learn. What I'm saying is that it seems - to me - you aren't even doing that. You aren't doing this under the supervision of a club, you aren't doing this under the supervision of an experienced trainer and you aren't doing this under the supervision of an experienced handler or helper. IF you really want to pursue this with your Siberian, your first, best step is to go talk to someone who knows about the protection work and protection sports in your area. http://www.gcschutzhund.org/index.shtml That's one place to start. You can also look online in your area for Schutzhund clubs. And if they suggest that you stop what you're doing with your dog, I would suggest listening to them. THEY are the experts and you aren't. For the record: I don't agree with this either. I don't agree that you should be training your dog to do anything bite related. I think you are seriously lacking in the correct knowledge of protection/bite work to train any dog, much less a headstrong Siberian. While it might seem "cool" to try and deviate and do something new with an off breed, you also have to know what you're doing when you're doing it. You, clearly, do not. Even if your Siberian was good for bite/protection work - and she could be, who knows - I would STILL say you are ruining a good dog by doing what you're doing. Go to professionals, ask their advice, email them, talk to them, then decide. But IMO, a Siberian has NO place in the protection/bite work arena, because, as the others have said, it goes against everything the breed is about. Sorry so long, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laine Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Bec - beat me to the punch Ah well, at least he's got three sources now (you, me and Elyse) to look at. As it is, your last comment was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Wonder if he's any better with computers and can sign back up.......... BANNED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tan J P Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna's Mum Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 God that guy was scary!! Why the hell would you want to train any dog to "get" people?!? What would happen if his mates were p*ssing about in the garden and the dog took the play fighting the wrong way? Jeeeeesus!!! Also, did someone post that he got the dog as payment?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bec Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 In case the OP is still reading this as a guest - I forgot to mention that the reason your dog was letting you get hit is because she knew it was a game and you weren't seriously in danger. Next time, get your friend to hit you with a brick, several times, to your head, and I am sure your dogs "natural protective instinct" will kick in and she'll jump at the chance to save your life, as long as she senses you are genuine danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
<3Jess<3 Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 :banghead::banghead::banghead: oh my god...reading this just makes you wants to scream...and then go take the husky off him what an idiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowpup Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Was extreemly upsetting. Some of the people on this forum have had huskies before he was born Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranormal Wolf Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Just another case of irresponsible dog ownership if you ask me. "Training" like that is what leads to breeds getting banned and black listed by breed specific legislation. Most people think BSL just applies to pit bulls but it applies to many breeds. There is a list of 75 breeds that are targets for BSL and Alaskan Malamutes and Siberian Huskies are already on the list no need in making more stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 aghh really he sat going on about police dog yeah police dogs go through intense training not someone who doesnt even like dogs!!!!!!!! i see u said thats why u got her? thought u had no choice in the other post, you seem full of BS , do you ever see a husky police dog? cos i never have!! silly LITTLE boy ... if i was where r you are id look into get that dog off youu!!!!:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissu & Aara Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Another way to put it, take a dog who is bred to be protective. Say GSD (I've personally never known a non-protective pure bred GSD). Say it has great potential to be a police dog, but you don't want it to be protective it all. For a reason, we will say that the last GSD you had died while protecting you. So you don't want your next to die protecting you either. So, you start training him to be playful, loving, trusting, child like and not so loyal. It is in his BLOOD to be naturally protective. Blood is hard wired and thick. You can't just teach him to be that way. You will be ruining him because he will now be confused. He knows what you taught him, but everything else is telling him to protect you. He will be constantly fighting HIMSELF about what to do. That could lead to a very aggressive dog. That wasn't totally hypathetical. That is what happened to an uncle of mine. He was assaulted one day, and Spirit attacked the assaulter, but then he attacked my uncle after. He was confused, and had to be PTS because he didn't know what to do with himself. You are pretty much doing the same. And while you are a bit ignorant (ok, a lot ignorant), I do not wish that to happen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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