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Training tool DISCUSSION


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Not a thread to start arguements so dont bother, any replys slating another member will be reported, so keep things constructive. We've managed this with the offlead debate, so we can manage it here!

soooo.... what are your thoughts on the following:

Check chains

Half checks

Prong collars

Headcollars like canny collars (behind the head)

Headcollars like haltis (under the chin)

Slip leads

and have you ever used any of them? how did your dog(s) react?

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All of the above are like any training tool, ok when used correctly (but not really for me but then perhaps thats just coz I've never had a difficult dog?).

None are supposed to be quick fixes for long term problems and shouldn't be treated that way, but used alongside proper training techniques, possibley with guidance from someone who knows what they are doing then fine. I think its an each to their own situation.

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They do work and I don't think they are cruel or anything like this, as long as used properly. And you can't deny the fact that they do offer relatively fast results and may make training easier.

For the average dog owner, in my opinion, you can achieve the same results with positive training, treats or play and lots of patience.

Obviously, it depends on each dog. But I think that for many dogs, these tools are not really indispensable.

Now to my experiences with these.

We tried using a halti with Kremlin, he absolutely hated it and we had to train him to stand walking with it, which obviously doubled as leash training. In the end, I found the halti itself useless, but at least it motivated us to do some leash training and that was a good thing. I don't think I would advise anyone to get a halti based on my experience, but I wouldn't completely rule them out either.

We also used a prong collar and still use it as it is the most effective way of keeping our dog under control in highly distracting places. The prong has also definitely been a huge help with his pulling. Although as I have said, we could have probably managed without it. Which is why I really disagree with trainers that put prongs on every dog because not so many dogs actually need them.

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As above, they're tools.

Myself, I've no experience with any of these collars. Until a few years ago a collar was a collar to me; you put it on and that was it (yeah, really clueless at one time :D). I plan to use a harness with my dog(s) but I do also plan to have a prong in case it's needed and learn all I can about it/how to use it before actually putting it (or any other kind of pinch) on my dog. Last I want is to hurt them even unintentionally.

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I taught my dogs to walk loose leash with the changing directions technique. As the dog is beginning to get ahead (to the point where they're going to pull) change directions and call them with quick happy noises (here! follow! focus!) and make it seem exciting to walk my direction. I guess it also helps the dog learn to keep their attention focused (at least partly) on which direction and pace you're going. I've also used the prong collar to fine tune heeling as well as other obedience type things.

Usually when we walk I have them on martingales (or semi-slip) if they don't have their usual collars on or if we're going someplace where I may need additional control (large gatherings of dogs, busy stores when I have all the dogs ect. ect. ect.) Otherwise I walk them on regular buckle type collars.

Personally, I really dislike the things that go over the head and or around the face and at any rate i've seen dogs pull through those as well.

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Check chains - never used a check chain - i know sum1 who does tho and it works for their dog - i would be worried that it would get caught in their fur, what i dont like as with other kinds of checks - this 1 has no stop point - it can keep closing - so if not used properly could cause damage (in my eyes)

Half checks - used 1 of these LOVE it tbh - works really well - but my half check when fully adjusted is still to big so i dont use it anymore so have changed to a semi-slip collar instead

Prong collars - never used 1 but tbh used properly ive never heard anything but good things about these collars n would use them on mine if mum would let me

Headcollars like canny collars (behind the head) - love it , it REALLY helps when im walking blaze - specially if we go somewhere new which excites him - i only have to use it for around 5 mins now then take it off n switch to his semi-slip

Headcollars like haltis (under the chin) - never used one of these so i dont really have an opinion - ive heard they rise up into their eyes tho unlike the canny - which i dont like - i dont like how the whip the dogs head round either

Slip leads - never used one of these so dont really have an opinion on it - never really seen one in action either - but i guess it would be abit like the check chain?

like has already been stated, they are tools and should be used as such - any training tool used correctly will work so long as its not just put on to be used as a quick fix

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Not a thread to start arguements so dont bother, any replys slating another member will be reported, so keep things constructive. We've managed this with the offlead debate, so we can manage it here!

soooo.... what are your thoughts on the following:

Check chains

Half checks

Prong collars

Headcollars like canny collars (behind the head)

Headcollars like haltis (under the chin)

Slip leads

and have you ever used any of them? how did your dog(s) react?

I believe that any training tool is good providing they are used correctly and with an appropriate training regime.

As personal preference I wouldn't ever use a check chain or prong collar out of the above. I find the full check chains used on a dog that pulls alot can often choke the dog and could lead to awful sore areas around the dogs neck. Again this is my personal opinion, I'm sure with the correct training it would work as it is meant to. With prong collars i think they look like some kind of tool used for medieval torture, I think they do more damage than good and can be quite a negative training tool but also this can be the case for any training tool!

I use canny collars on Marley and Bandit and a Halti on Gizmo. I tried the halti on all 3 but Marley and Bandit they didn't get along with it at all and found they fought against it more than walked with it! Then I tried a canny collar on them all including Gizmo and although they all walked well, when Gizmo got tense he would pull against it so hard that it rubbed on his nose causing sore spots. He walked so much better on the halti and Marley and Bandit walked better on the canny collar so that was my decision made.

As for slip leads Ive never used them. For dogs which are nervous being on the lead/having their lead put on I think they are a good tool to use but for pullers I wouldn't use one as like the check chain I feel they would choke the dog more than stopping the pulling.

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Not a thread to start arguements so dont bother, any replys slating another member will be reported, so keep things constructive. We've managed this with the offlead debate, so we can manage it here!

soooo.... what are your thoughts on the following:

Check chains

Half checks

Prong collars

Headcollars like canny collars (behind the head)

Headcollars like haltis (under the chin)

Slip leads

and have you ever used any of them? how did your dog(s) react?

We use ultra-thin check chains (they are not choke chains if you use them properly) for showing our dogs, but don't use them in any other circumstance.

We use (chain) half checks for normal walking and fabric half checks (racing collars) for working the dogs in harness.

Prong collars - never even seen one let alone used it, but I don't like the idea of them (a purely irrational emotional reaction as I have no experience of their use).

Headcollars of any kind - don't like them one bit and would never use them. I've heard too many stories of damage caused by them.

Slip leads - I don't like them. With a properly used check chain, the chain runs free and will automatically loosen when there is no pressure on it. With these "rope" leads, there is a lot more friction and a lot more likelihood of damage to the dog if the loop doesn't loosen.

Mick

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We use harnesses, but I have a friend who trained her Rotti who was a monster to walk on a prong collar, under the supervision of a trainer. He was on the prong for - I think it was one or two weeks - and now walks beautifully on a half-check collar.

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I used half checks and they are the only thing I use. Aslan doesn't really pull like a train (well when he knows I am paying attention to him, feel a bit of an idiot shouting back, back, back every 2 mins walking down the road :D ) and I find they are better for staying on rather than an ordinary collar due to the thick neck mane lol. An ordinary collar slips too easily. They only ever wear collars when out walking and although I do have Haltis etc I rarely use them, never on Aslan as he never pulls enough but sometimes on Mishka. I dont like using them mainly because uneducated folk by me seem to view them as muzzles :( duh lol. If used correctly and only when and if needed I see no problem with any of them. The only ones I would never use are the electro shock variety. But each to their own view as long as no missused.

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Check chains - Never used one. My male husky came with one, but I replaced it for a half check. I don't like the idea of the links digging into the dogs neck or pinching the fur, whilst half checks can still do this, there is a smaller chance of harm.

Half checks - Used a half check on my girl some time ago now. We now use semi-slips instead.

Prong collars - Never used one and don't think I ever will. Not my thing. I think there are a variety of techniques and people shouldn't have to resort to these.

Headcollars like canny collars (behind the head) - I've never used on extensively but I have used one briefly. They seemed to give decent control, but I found that if the dog pulled backwards, it was easy enough to slip the nose band off or the bit that attaches to the lead over their head. I would probably recommend them more than a halti though.

Headcollars like haltis (under the chin) - Haltis are pretty good if used properly. I see too many dogs tearing it down the street with a halti on because the owner is under some magical belief that it's actually helping when you can clearly see the material is riding up into their eyes and cutting their nose. I used a halti originally to help me gain more control so I could teach Aleu heel effectively. We havent used one for a long while now.

Slip leads - Slip leads are good when used properly. I see too many people that tighten the rubber piece right up to the dogs neck which defeats the purpose of having a slip lead and just chokes the dog. The lead should be really loose and allow gentle slip movements. In my opinion slip leads are for dogs that are very good with heel. We use ours regularly and have had no problems.

Stacey xxx

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Check chains- By this I assume you mean a 'choke' chain? I'm against these, as they have no stopping point and can strangle the dog. Only people who are trained to use it should be legally able to use it, in my opinion.

Half checks- Again, I assume you mean the 'choke chains' that close only half-way? I have one of those (Martingale) and it works wonders on Suka! But you still have to know how to use one properly and how to fit it properly.

Prong collars- No. Just No. These 'tools' only teach the dog to fear the owner - and fear isn't respect in a dog's eyes. It might provoke defense/fear biting in the dog, which is bad. I know people say they only feel a pinch, but I doubt it when they are sharpened to a point!

Headcollars like canny collars (behind the head)- No opinion/never tried it.

Headcollars like haltis (under the chin)- Have heard too many horror stories about this one, so I returned it and went for the Martingale collar instead. Besides, Suka hated it.

Slip leads- Never tried it/no opinion.

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Prong collars- No. Just No. These 'tools' only teach the dog to fear the owner - and fear isn't respect in a dog's eyes. It might provoke defense/fear biting in the dog, which is bad. I know people say they only feel a pinch, but I doubt it when they are sharpened to a point!

.

Who the hell would do that?!?!?!?!?!?!

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course they're not sharp!!:lolman: I use one! Wouldnt even consider it if they were sharp! lmfao

They prongs are completely dull, and you can get rubber tips for the ends to :)

Oh, lol, right then.

Still, I'm still against that whole thing. I wouldn't like someone pinching me for a correction. xD

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Oh, lol, right then.

Still, I'm still against that whole thing. I wouldn't like someone pinching me for a correction. xD

seems more like a Poke.

I've seen Grey on the Prong and I can assure you he does NOT feel any pain from it, Infact all it seems to do is make him go "oh I'll slow down abit" I Know grey is a total badass but still! :P, Also it definitley hasn't made him scared of Sid lol! She went to the loo and he just wanted to follow her -_-', He is still a very happy chappy with the prong on! :D

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I need to try one of these on myself or something because I can hardly see as how a tool that just "pokes" your dog would make them walk a billion times nicer. I'm sorry but there's got to be something about prong collars that makes them such a last resort and have had the ability to cause great mental distress to dogs in the past.

Yes the mental distress is usually caused through over use of the collar, but initially to get such dramatic results with dogs there must be something about those collars that isn't nice.

Stacey xxx

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Lol Greys no badass, hes a mummys boy!

... though i think he would prefer to be called a badass at the dog park, especially if Marleys about... cant be calling my boy a softie in fornt of the other boys!

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I need to try one of these on myself or something because I can hardly see as how a tool that just "pokes" your dog would make them walk a billion times nicer. I'm sorry but there's got to be something about prong collars that makes them such a last resort and have had the ability to cause great mental distress to dogs in the past.

Yes the mental distress is usually caused through over use of the collar, but initially to get such dramatic results with dogs there must be something about those collars that isn't nice.

Stacey xxx

Oh dont get me wrong, you yank a dog about with it and yea, its gunna hurt, so many people give over zeilous corrections which would hurt a dog on any type of collar, and thats what you really shouldnt do

but if used properly it doesnt hurt. Canny collars cause dogs to slow down and walk nicely (in most cases), does that mean that they hurt the dog?

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Well I'm no dog trainer professional or anything so it took a while to find something that worked on Jake. I think one of his problems is that he's already learned to ignore pain/discomfort when he got shot in the foot and just had to deal with it for months. He is definitely the opposite of a drama queen lol

Check chain or choke chain - tried this first and it did exactly as the name says.. I tried "checking" him with it, quick sudden jerks, just to get his attention, but after a week he ignored it and just tried pulling constantly so that was a loss.

Haven't tried a half-check, unless this includes martingales. He's got one of those to use as just a regular collar for now.

Prong collar - what I use now and have found to be the least damaging and most effective. I got a small (and very dull! :P) one from a trainer friend who thinks he's been trained on one before because of how well he responds to it. He's definitely not afraid of it nor has it given him any fear or aggression towards me. When I get it out for walks he's still super excited to go. Problem is he knows when it's there and not there so I haven't been able to figure out how to get him off of it and on to a regular collar..

Halti or similar - tried a "gentle leader" and that lasted a whole week of very short walks -_-. Made sure I fit it correctly and everything, got Jake used to wearing it before taking him out on it, and I was appalled at how fail it was :( He was only able to pull once, then it got stuck in his hair and it wouldn't release, so I'd have to fix it -every time- he put pressure on it. Otherwise it got into his eyes and it looked terribly annoying/painful. Plus he hated it (for good reason), which made walks no fun :(

Never tried the others!

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Lol Greys no badass, hes a mummys boy!

... though i think he would prefer to be called a badass at the dog park, especially if Marleys about... cant be calling my boy a softie in fornt of the other boys!

Ok he's a Badass, but a big softie mummies boy on the inside! :D

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