Pulling on lead

[andy holgate]

In my defense, not that I have a need to defend myself however, using a bottle does not lead to a fearful dog. In fact Mya drinks out of the very same bottle, not an action she would do if she was afraid of it. Also I am by no means lazy nor am I a bad trainer when it comes to my girls. Most unbiased literature states there is a place for many different styles of training as apposed to just religiously sticking to on idea. Like I said, before giving 'my' advise I expected some degree of recoil from people with different ideas and philosophies, each to their own. Also there are very few, if any, animal societies that thrive on positive reinforcement alone, including, that of our canine friends.

[Bec]

In my defense, not that I have a need to defend myself however, using a bottle does not lead to a fearful dog. In fact Mya drinks out of the very same bottle, not an action she would do if she was afraid of it. Also I am by no means lazy nor am I a bad trainer when it comes to my girls. Most unbiased literature states there is a place for many different styles of training as apposed to just religiously sticking to on idea. Like I said, before giving 'my' advise I expected some degree of recoil from people with different ideas and philosophies, each to their own. Also there are very few, if any, animal societies that thrive on positive reinforcement alone, including, that of our canine friends.

Sorry, I'm a bit lost. Where in my post did I state that you should only ever use positive reinforcement in your training?

In fact, my post mentioned nothing about positive vs negative reinforcement. I was explaining how dogs learn and why it's unfair to punish them for something that isn't their fault but the fault of poor training. I have no problem at all with using negative reinforcement or positive punishment when and if it's appropriate. But punishing your dog because you're essentially asking them to run before they can walk is unfair. If your dog is too distracted and unable to focus on you that is a training problem you have created, not a problem with your dog, and spraying it in the face (a method I wouldn't recommend even IF it was a situation that required NR or PP) is not a fair or appropriate solution, and one that will undoubtedly fail to produce the best results.

I explain to the people in my obedience classes, that IF we use punishment or corrections I then want to ensure I see them set their dog up to win and reward it for the right behaviour. I would NEVER accept anyone spraying their dog in the face or punishing it for a lack of focus because of handler error in one of my classes.

[Arooroomom]

When training a dog you need to take it in steps. Just because the dog heels in a training classroom doesn't mean it's going to heel in a parking lot, or on a walk, or at a park. These are all "new" and "different" areas to your dog. Bec is saying that you are punishing the dog for being distracted when you haven't trained the dog on what it should be doing in the presence of those distractions.

My Border Collie was untrained when I got him. Didn't even know how to sit. He was a handful for the first few months and became much more Border Collie like as he lost the excess weight he had. I worked with him and would recall and listen brilliantly around the house and the pool. We began to go to the lake (to swim and fetch, just as we were doing in the pool) but now there were more dogs, more toys, more water... more everything. And he went right back into being "locked" into his Border Collie spaz-ness. He couldn't handle it. It was all too much and he wanted to do it all. I could have kept him on a lead and popped him a correction whenever he would get over excited and not return toys, ignore recalls, take other dogs toys, become obsessive over the water reflections (as these were already things he "knew" how to do.) Essentially this is what the spray in the face is equilevant to. I'm not saying you popped a correction... but the thinking is the same. "My dog knows how to do these things correctly, but is choosing not to. I need to correct my dog."

Essentially, the dog actually doesn't know how to behave in these situations. Because to a dog.. sitting in the house is not the same as sitting at the park. These are 2 different actions. They are linked by the same cue... but they are different. So instead of correcting him for not doing things as he should, I worked on showing him how to succeed. Bring the ball back to me at the lake, no matter who else is throwing a ball. Go fetch your toy, not everyone else's. Focus on me when the water starts to reflect.

All in all it's better to show and teach a dog what it should do, rather than correcting them for what they are already doing.

[TreyRust]

In my defense, not that I have a need to defend myself however, using a bottle does not lead to a fearful dog. In fact Mya drinks out of the very same bottle, not an action she would do if she was afraid of it. Also I am by no means lazy nor am I a bad trainer when it comes to my girls. Most unbiased literature states there is a place for many different styles of training as apposed to just religiously sticking to on idea. Like I said, before giving 'my' advise I expected some degree of recoil from people with different ideas and philosophies, each to their own. Also there are very few, if any, animal societies that thrive on positive reinforcement alone, including, that of our canine friends.

I should've said that I do condone negative reinforcement. I just think there are rare occasions when it is better. And punishing a dog for not knowing what to do isn't good.

Trey.