At the risk of sparking a big interesting debate.. What are people's views on the Census? (UK)

[instant-classic]

Well if it was to happen immediately they would... and if it happened further down the line, their company or their children, or their legacy etc would lose out? I wouldnt say that these people are particularly logical anyway. Any threat to the balance that tips in their favour would be an immediate threat to them mentally... theyd try nip it in the bud i would have thought.

Thats kinda my point !! there's pretty much zero chance of it happening immediately and little more of it happening to future generations (i'm not saying its right or wrong), i honestly can't see Mr Megabucks Corp LTD. losing any sleep over it.

[Simon&Sophia]

Thats kinda my point !! there's pretty much zero chance of it happening immediately and little more of it happening to future generations (i'm not saying its right or wrong), i honestly can't see Mr Megabucks Corp LTD. losing any sleep over it.

Im glad you agree

The way i see it is, every person ive told about it, or explained it to has said it would be awesome, and that itd work etc....if it was public knowledge, which it isnt yet as youve only just heard of it through this thread, Megabucks Corp would be quaking in their expensive boots, so they have to defeat its credibility before it becomes public knowledge.

[Aramek]

I dunno, friend. It is kinda hard maintaining that I'm better than everyone else without all my money to throw around.

What would I throw around if we didn't have money?

Not saying it is the best solution, but, money does make things easier, especially in regards to buying all my fancy monocles and cigars.

[Simon&Sophia]

I dunno, friend. It is kinda hard maintaining that I'm better than everyone else without all my money to throw around.

What would I throw around if we didn't have money?

Not saying it is the best solution, but, money does make things easier, especially in regards to buying all my fancy monocles and cigars.

haha, thats an awesome picture...monacles and cigars.

Well, money is just a tool of commerce. Money has never done anything for anyone has it?

Money cant build a house, or harvest crops, or cure cancer....money is totally not needed.

[Sid_Wolf]

do need money to buy the dogs food and stuff though! and vet treatment requires dosh lol

[Sparks]

All seems very farfetched to me.

[Simon&Sophia]

do need money to buy the dogs food and stuff though! and vet treatment requires dosh lol

i dont mean in an individual situation, i mean at all. Like, anywhere. lol

If there was no money in existence you wouldnt need to buy or pay for anything.

[Simon&Sophia]

All seems very farfetched to me.

What aspect of it?

[Celestial Echo]

I have no opinion on the UK Census, but, as for the US Census, it is a very important thing!

We only do it every 10 years, and it allows us to monitor population changes to adjust the need for local funding. Like, for roads, Stoplights, all that good stuff. If a city of 5,000, has grown to 12,000 in 10 years, you bet we need to know that, so the area gets the funding it needs to build more schools, and expand the city itself.

Sadly, we have some areas that are "No Gub'nint in mah bizness" that do not fill out the Census, and, sadly, this only ends up hurting the area, causing greater distrust.

"Group A doesn't trust the government, group doesn't fill out census, group doesn't get the funding it deserves for its area, they start to see that the 'other areas' are getting funding other than them, they start to get angry that they aren't getting the help they need, they trust the government less, they don't fill out the Census...etc."

It is a negative spiral. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to question "The Man" but Census shouldn't be one of them.

I love this, and couldn't have said it any better myself.

I think that all of the information on there is legit. It helps

with statistics so people who are buying in the area know

what kind of a community it is. It helps with funding of

schools, ect.

I don't have anything to hide. I am not an overly private

person. I am not overly suspicious of the government. I

am not bothered by the government. I pay my taxes on

time, and work honestly, ect. I feel filling out a small paper

that takes about 5 minutes isn't too much to ask.

[Simon&Sophia]

I love this, and couldn't have said it any better myself.

I think that all of the information on there is legit. It helps

with statistics so people who are buying in the area know

what kind of a community it is. It helps with funding of

schools, ect.

I don't have anything to hide. I am not an overly private

person. I am not overly suspicious of the government. I

am not bothered by the government. I pay my taxes on

time, and work honestly, ect. I feel filling out a small paper

that takes about 5 minutes isn't too much to ask.

Yes i agree. But the fat is that this years UK census is a front. A massive front. Look at Lockheed martin... massively corrupt! Why are they involved? Why are we giving more money to pay for more death? Why is the government being so secretive about them? I havent refused to do it, i just want some questions answered first, thats all

[Aramek]

We're just saying that you need to pick your battles. And weighing in on this may not be the best place to plant your flag.

Lockheed Martin, and Bowing are (I think) not only our largest aeronautics firms, but they hold the largest military contracts. They do a lot of things that do not involve bombing brown people, but, yes, there is always that. I sympathize with your trepidation, especially if one is not a fan of our current government's foreign policy and its ramifications, but, boiling it down, this seems to be akin to "I won't pay my parking tickets because the police brutalize people."

[Simon&Sophia]

We're just saying that you need to pick your battles. And weighing in on this may not be the best place to plant your flag.

Lockheed Martin, and Bowing are (I think) not only our largest aeronautics firms, but they hold the largest military contracts. They do a lot of things that do not involve bombing brown people, but, yes, there is always that. I sympathize with your trepidation, especially if one is not a fan of our current government's foreign policy and its ramifications, but, boiling it down, this seems to be akin to "I won't pay my parking tickets because the police brutalize people."

I see where youre coming from, although its not quite the same in comparison, as in Lockheed Martin's case, people are actually dying.

Also, i wouldnt pay parking tickets as i dont believe its right for someone to own a piece of nature, telling you you cant use it when its actually public land. If it was in a disabled parking space or blocking an emergency exit of something, then fair enough. But the majority of parking "violations" are ridiculous.

[deeppurple]

sounds intense

And did this cause you distress? Did you feel intimidated? .............. further demonstration of the Gov't breaking the law. Its BullSh*t..... the reason theyre putting so much pressure on people is because they need to get all the data they can for the people that are really behind it all .... big corporations. Otherwise they wont help the Gov't out.... one big example as i keep saying is Lockheed Martin - would you want to piss off the second biggest arms manufacturer in the world? Probably not? Especially when they provide you with all your weapons for "defence" and illegally obtaining oil.

Im sorry to hear that this happened to you You do totally have rights, and you did NOT have to fill it in. Well done for trying to stand up for what you feel is right though. It fills me with optimism

well the only reason i did not want to fill it in was not because i was hiding my details or who lived here they know all that anyway, it was because i felt that some of the questions about who stays in my house, or who visits were wrong, i mean we have laws to protect others personal information yet they are asking me to give someone elses personal information that was what made me not want to fill it out. it seemed hypercritical to me. but i did it in the end to stop the what i feel was harassment!

plus on the first visit that this man came to my door he said why have you not done it yet i answered him that i have had a lot on my mind and would try to sort it out soon, and he stood there and said to me yes a lot of people have used that excuse, but if you do not do it i will be having to come back .....i said to him both my mother and father in law were told they have cancer and my OH has had to leave to go to care for them 170 miles away and i had to leave work to become a single parent, all in a month my whole world was upside down, how dare he say that is an excuse, that so annoyed me. yes it is intimidating

[Simon&Sophia]

well the only reason i did not want to fill it in was not because i was hiding my details or who lived here they know all that anyway, it was because i felt that some of the questions about who stays in my house, or who visits were wrong, i mean we have laws to protect others personal information yet they are asking me to give someone elses personal information that was what made me not want to fill it out. it seemed hypercritical to me. but i did it in the end to stop the what i feel was harassment!

plus on the first visit that this man came to my door he said why have you not done it yet i answered him that i have had a lot on my mind and would try to sort it out soon, and he stood there and said to me yes a lot of people have used that excuse, but if you do not do it i will be having to come back .....i said to him both my mother and father in law were told they have cancer and my OH has had to leave to go to care for them 170 miles away and i had to leave work to become a single parent, all in a month my whole world was upside down, how dare he say that is an excuse, that so annoyed me. yes it is intimidating

you should have asked to see his ID, taken his name and reported him to the Police for breaching your peace. The people that come round have no legal power at all! The census form is only an offer, you dont have to accept it

[deeppurple]

you should have asked to see his ID, taken his name and reported him to the Police for breaching your peace. The people that come round have no legal power at all! The census form is only an offer, you dont have to accept it

well i have done it now and its over but i do have to say that you have taught me that it is not compulsory as i did not know that

[Simon&Sophia]

well i have done it now and its over but i do have to say that you have taught me that it is not compulsory as i did not know that

everything is compulsory. No one can tell you what to do unless you cause harm, damage or loss to another human being. Every other rule or "ACT" of law, needs your consent.

[Marc]

Oh I love the fact that I have only just read this thread in its entirety now.

Regarding Lockheed Martin. The fact that they have been accused of being a corrupt company does not make it fact, any more than it makes it fact that a UFO landed in New Mexico. If it had been proven in a court of law then it wouldnt be happening, and if it hasnt then it is speculation. Cant have it both ways. I do however agree that they have supplied weapons to suppressive regemes in the past ..... As have the UK government which you would rather have doing the census... As have any other number of arms manufacturers.

Speculation. Have you ever bought a Burger from McDonalds? If you have then you are supporting terrorism ... True? I dunno but Ive heard it so many times that it must be true, right?

Now for the UK Census. The UK census is needed for everything from judging how many roads we need in different areas, to which different language leaflets will be required in each area in the UK. Im not saying it is the best way of going about it, however it is a way of doing it accurately.

However there is cost which is a problem? Indeed these things cost a lot of money to do, however you are comparing this against nothing. Compare this to the cost of building roads in the wrong places, then having to build more in the correct places. Employing an incorrect and high number of government employees for a town and some of them high paid because they a multilingual.

Your comment on Legislation is completely incorrect and you can be prosecuted for not filling in the UK census. Before you argue this point ask yourself if you could be prosecuted for breaking any of the following:

Data protection Act

Disability Discrimination Act

Health and Safety

Health and Hygiene

The recent digital ecomomy act

Or here's one for you ... Because on your theory regarding legislation, every company in the UK must have got this wrong with all their Lawyers etc .... Christmas Day (Trading) Act

So ..... The back onto the wasting of UK money on pointless exercises ... IMO the biggest waste of money in the UK is caused by its inhabitants. Chasing people who have not paid their council tax, prosecuting people who avoid taxation, and indeed chasing people who do not fill in the UK Census which IS required by law.

[Lil Miss Bump]

this thread had annoyed me greatly-it just seems to be provoking arguements with very little to back it up (and very little concept of laws, legislations etc) and trying to force one persons views and opinions on others and picking anyone who thinks to disagree with these opinions to pieces. this is NOT what i am on this forum for and think there is a time and a place to treat people like this oh wait-NEVER. i will not be commenting further on this nor will i be drawn into an argument but i am very annoyed.

[Simon&Sophia]

Oh I love the fact that I have only just read this thread in its entirety now.

Regarding Lockheed Martin. The fact that they have been accused of being a corrupt company does not make it fact, any more than it makes it fact that a UFO landed in New Mexico. If it had been proven in a court of law then it wouldnt be happening, and if it hasnt then it is speculation. Cant have it both ways. I do however agree that they have supplied weapons to suppressive regemes in the past ..... As have the UK government which you would rather have doing the census... As have any other number of arms manufacturers.

Speculation. Have you ever bought a Burger from McDonalds? If you have then you are supporting terrorism ... True? I dunno but Ive heard it so many times that it must be true, right?

Now for the UK Census. The UK census is needed for everything from judging how many roads we need in different areas, to which different language leaflets will be required in each area in the UK. Im not saying it is the best way of going about it, however it is a way of doing it accurately.

However there is cost which is a problem? Indeed these things cost a lot of money to do, however you are comparing this against nothing. Compare this to the cost of building roads in the wrong places, then having to build more in the correct places. Employing an incorrect and high number of government employees for a town and some of them high paid because they a multilingual.

Your comment on Legislation is completely incorrect and you can be prosecuted for not filling in the UK census. Before you argue this point ask yourself if you could be prosecuted for breaking any of the following:

Data protection Act

Disability Discrimination Act

Health and Safety

Health and Hygiene

The recent digital ecomomy act

Or here's one for you ... Because on your theory regarding legislation, every company in the UK must have got this wrong with all their Lawyers etc .... Christmas Day (Trading) Act

So ..... The back onto the wasting of UK money on pointless exercises ... IMO the biggest waste of money in the UK is caused by its inhabitants. Chasing people who have not paid their council tax, prosecuting people who avoid taxation, and indeed chasing people who do not fill in the UK Census which IS required by law.

United States ex rel. Beattie, et al. v COMSAT

Cable & Computer Technology v. Lockheed Martin (Unfair Business Practices)

Campbell v. Lockheed Martin (Jet Navigation Contracts)

Unlicensed Exports to South Korea

Emissions Violations at the Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory

Groundwater Cleanup Violation (at the Burbank area of the San Fernando Valley Superfund Site)

Korea Supply Company v. Lockheed Martin (Bribery)

Nuclear Safety Violations (Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory)

Nuclear Waste Storage Violation (Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory)

Procurement Fraud

Space Launch Information Transfer to China (Arms Export Violation)

Aircraft Sale to Egypt (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act Violations)

Falsification of Testing Records (Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory)

Violations of the National Labor Relations Act (1991-1992 Strike)

Embezzlement of PAC Funds

Racial Discrimination and Retaliation

Violations of Arms Export Control Act and International Traffic in Arms Regulations

Bid-Rigging on NAVO MSRC Contract

Ok, so these are just a few instances. But the post is getting pretty long now :/

I dont eat Mcdonalds, so i couldnt possibly speculate.

I agree, it is neccesary to conduct something similar to the census to find out how many roads need building and repairing etc, and im not disputing that fact, im quite happy to do the census as i keep saying. All i want is for the government/ONS to answer, under attestation and penalty of perjury, a few simple questions.

My comments on the requirement to complete the census were not incorrect, more; ambiguous. So i apologise. By current legislation, i.e The Census Act 1920, and its provisions. It is required that you fill in the Census, unless you refuse to do so for religious reasons. As found in section 8a in footnote 12 and 13. Im sure it says explicitly somewhere within the act that you can refuse upon religious grounds. Moreover, it states in the act that it is a for peoples who are "required under this act". Now, if the government cant prove that youre required to follow said Act, then it has no jurisdiction upon you. As in, the government would need to prove that you are obliged, more than just saying "its a requirement under the census act 1920." And so if it can not be proved beyond doubt that you are who they think you are, or that you are a member of the UK.

Other points not found within the Act itself, and understandably so, are things such as the definition of a statutory act. The definition of such is, a legislative rule of a society, given the force of law with the consent of the governed. This is found in Blacks Law dictionary. So if you do not consent to an act of law, i.e a rule acting as if it is law, then you are not bound by it. All legislative "laws" work on the basis of contract, if you do not consent to the contract, or are not party to the contract, you have no duty to it.

As for prosecution of for breaking any of the details laid down in the Data protection Act, Disability Discrimination Act, Health and Safety and Health and Hygiene (act?), most if not all breaches of such would be a breach of Common Law, i.e law of the land. That is, they would cause damage harm or loss to another human being. So yes, you should be prosecuted under common law, but this is not the way it works in this country any more although it is professed that we are still a common law jurisdiction. So yes you should be prosecuted and yes you are prosecuted, but these days it is under different means, and under a different guise. Your reference to corporations will help me explain how.

There is a difference, in law between human beings, and people/corporations. A human is a living flesh and blood human being with a soul. A person/corporation is a created legal fiction that has no soul. Think about it, all companies, at the end of it are just words on a piece of paper. Its the same for people. The name on a piece of paper for people is their birth certificate. MR SIMON POWELL is the legal fiction that has been assigned to me. But that isnt me. Thats just my title so that i can act in commerce and be controlled by other soulless entities. this is how we are bound to follow legislation, because its nonsense for someone/thing with a soul, to follow the orders of one that is not thus blessed. My example to back this up? Well, if no one ever told you that you should pay or needed to pay tax - would you still pay it? No, you pay it because you are told you have to. But you do not have to, your Legal fiction does. Your parents were conned into signing a contract for you at birth which says that you consent to all the contract offers (legislation) that is ever put before you, even if you didnt vote for it, you still agree that the government can do whatever they want.

So how do you not have to follow legislation? Seperate yourself from your legal fiction, and remove your tacit consent.

If i started talking about my views on taxation we'll be here alot longer. So i will close in saying that you are half right. the Census is required. But by legislation. It is a legal requirement, but not a lawful requirement.

*let me just say that i am not intending to force anything on anyone, or make anyone looks silly or stupid, or that their point is not valid. It is not my intention to offend, or demean anyone. I apologise if anyone has felt such feelings from me, but i can promise you that i certainly did not intend to. Everyone's point is valid. thats why i have agreed with alot of people that have said that i am wrong. Because as i see it, from what we've all been told. you are right. But it is my opinion that we are not always told the full story. Mark my posts down if you like, all i ask is that you think about what i am saying, and do some research before you judge my opinion or my character. As i have clearly offended some people, or caused them some sort of distress/dissatisfaction, i would ask the moderaters to feel free to lock this thread if they so wish If anyone else has any questions, pm me *

Peace and love

xxx

[Val (Zebedee)]

this thread had annoyed me greatly-it just seems to be provoking arguements with very little to back it up (and very little concept of laws, legislations etc) and trying to force one persons views and opinions on others and picking anyone who thinks to disagree with these opinions to pieces. this is NOT what i am on this forum for and think there is a time and a place to treat people like this oh wait-NEVER. i will not be commenting further on this nor will i be drawn into an argument but i am very annoyed.

While on the major part I agree, Diz, this is what certain people want, a reaction, that is why I have read but not commented as, per forum rules, I would not have anything constructive to say. There are many threads that have been posted, like this one, that seems to only incite heated responses and, in your opinion, try to force views on others. I too will not be drawn in to the argument so I will not state whether I am annoyed, angered or laughing at this or any other like topic, I just let those who are "interested" in it to continue making their points & my blood pressure remains the same!

[Simon&Sophia]

While on the major part I agree, Diz, this is what certain people want, a reaction, that is why I have read but not commented as, per forum rules, I would not have anything constructive to say. There are many threads that have been posted, like this one, that seems to only incite heated responses and, in your opinion, try to force views on others. I too will not be drawn in to the argument so I will not state whether I am annoyed, angered or laughing at this or any other like topic, I just let those who are "interested" in it to continue making their points & my blood pressure remains the same!

Very respectable

all i can say is that im not trying to draw anyone into anything. Talk to me if you want to, dont if you dont. Im not attacking peoples posts or peoples opinions etc, because ive got nothing against anyone. I dont want to cause a massive stir, im still only a newbie and i like it here! lol. I just want you to think about what im saying, and think about what youve been told, and why youre saying the things that you are... if you dont want to, or have done and still cant see what im saying, its alright Dont worry about it!

Peace and love to all

xxx

[Marc]

United States ex rel. Beattie, et al. v COMSAT

Cable & Computer Technology v. Lockheed Martin (Unfair Business Practices)

Campbell v. Lockheed Martin (Jet Navigation Contracts)

Unlicensed Exports to South Korea

Emissions Violations at the Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory

Groundwater Cleanup Violation (at the Burbank area of the San Fernando Valley Superfund Site)

Korea Supply Company v. Lockheed Martin (Bribery)

Nuclear Safety Violations (Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory)

Nuclear Waste Storage Violation (Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory)

Procurement Fraud

Space Launch Information Transfer to China (Arms Export Violation)

Aircraft Sale to Egypt (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act Violations)

Falsification of Testing Records (Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory)

Violations of the National Labor Relations Act (1991-1992 Strike)

Embezzlement of PAC Funds

Racial Discrimination and Retaliation

Violations of Arms Export Control Act and International Traffic in Arms Regulations

Bid-Rigging on NAVO MSRC Contract

Ok, so these are just a few instances. But the post is getting pretty long now :/

I know you have not been a member for very long, but please do not serve me with a massive list of links. One would have sufficed to put the point across and to post up that many serves to do nothing but annoy. There would have been nothing wrong with posting the following link which would have served the same purpose. http://contractormis...011&submit=sort

This one however I will give you. However it is nothing more than has been done by our own government whom you would have do the Census instead. Also please bare in mind that they were not picked out, they won the contract. Therefore costing us less than other contracts when considering all the options.

I dont eat Mcdonalds, so i couldnt possibly speculate.

I agree, it is neccesary to conduct something similar to the census to find out how many roads need building and repairing etc, and im not disputing that fact, im quite happy to do the census as i keep saying. All i want is for the government/ONS to answer, under attestation and penalty of perjury, a few simple questions.

Then do so through your local MP and go through the correct procedures. Wanting someone to answer for why they have chose a specific contractor does not give you the right to refuse to comply with a legislation.

My comments on the requirement to complete the census were not incorrect, more; ambiguous. So i apologise. By current legislation, i.e The Census Act 1920, and its provisions. It is required that you fill in the Census, unless you refuse to do so for religious reasons. As found in section 8a in footnote 12 and 13. Im sure it says explicitly somewhere within the act that you can refuse upon religious grounds. Moreover, it states in the act that it is a for peoples who are "required under this act". Now, if the government cant prove that youre required to follow said Act, then it has no jurisdiction upon you. As in, the government would need to prove that you are obliged, more than just saying "its a requirement under the census act 1920." And so if it can not be proved beyond doubt that you are who they think you are, or that you are a member of the UK.

OK religeous beliefs are a completely different subject which tbh I have never agreed with anyway. As far as I am concerned you comply with the laws a ethics of your country, end of story. The fact that one person has to do something, yet another person does not is quite frankly ridiculous. If me and my wife moved to some muslim countries, she would be expected to wear a burkah. Why are we any different?

As for the proving you are a member of the UK that is the worst arguement I have ever heard......... If you live and reside in the UK then you have to comply to UK legislation. It doesnt matter which way you want to put it and I would love to see you prosecuted to the full extent of the law and try to fight it. You would be made mincemeat of.

Other points not found within the Act itself, and understandably so, are things such as the definition of a statutory act. The definition of such is, a legislative rule of a society, given the force of law with the consent of the governed. This is found in Blacks Law dictionary. So if you do not consent to an act of law, i.e a rule acting as if it is law, then you are not bound by it. All legislative "laws" work on the basis of contract, if you do not consent to the contract, or are not party to the contract, you have no duty to it.

As for prosecution of for breaking any of the details laid down in the Data protection Act, Disability Discrimination Act, Health and Safety and Health and Hygiene (act?), most if not all breaches of such would be a breach of Common Law, i.e law of the land. That is, they would cause damage harm or loss to another human being. So yes, you should be prosecuted under common law, but this is not the way it works in this country any more although it is professed that we are still a common law jurisdiction. So yes you should be prosecuted and yes you are prosecuted, but these days it is under different means, and under a different guise. Your reference to corporations will help me explain how.

As you said perfectly well above .... You SHOULD be prosecuted .. and yes you probably would be.. But just because you shouldnt be prosecuted for not filling out the census does not mean that you can not be which is what you have stated repeately.

There is a difference, in law between human beings, and people/corporations. A human is a living flesh and blood human being with a soul. A person/corporation is a created legal fiction that has no soul. Think about it, all companies, at the end of it are just words on a piece of paper. Its the same for people. The name on a piece of paper for people is their birth certificate. MR SIMON POWELL is the legal fiction that has been assigned to me. But that isnt me. Thats just my title so that i can act in commerce and be controlled by other soulless entities. this is how we are bound to follow legislation, because its nonsense for someone/thing with a soul, to follow the orders of one that is not thus blessed. My example to back this up? Well, if no one ever told you that you should pay or needed to pay tax - would you still pay it? No, you pay it because you are told you have to. But you do not have to, your Legal fiction does. Your parents were conned into signing a contract for you at birth which says that you consent to all the contract offers (legislation) that is ever put before you, even if you didnt vote for it, you still agree that the government can do whatever they want.

And Im guessing you tie yourself to trees to stop the building of motorways too, right? Do you even realise how ridiculous and condicending what you have put above sounds? You are speaking to someone who considers themself to have quite a high level of intellence and speaking to them like they are an idiot. Once again its annoying.

So how do you not have to follow legislation? Seperate yourself from your legal fiction, and remove your tacit consent.

You do not HAVE to follow it .. But you can be prosecuted for not doing so.

If i started talking about my views on taxation we'll be here alot longer. So i will close in saying that you are half right. the Census is required. But by legislation. It is a legal requirement, but not a lawful requirement.

No, I am totally right. My comment was that you can be prosecuted for not doing so, which I have stated over and over and over again. However as shown more than once in this post you refuse to listen to anyone at all.

*let me just say that i am not intending to force anything on anyone, or make anyone looks silly or stupid, or that their point is not valid. It is not my intention to offend, or demean anyone. I apologise if anyone has felt such feelings from me, but i can promise you that i certainly did not intend to. Everyone's point is valid. thats why i have agreed with alot of people that have said that i am wrong. Because as i see it, from what we've all been told. you are right. But it is my opinion that we are not always told the full story. Mark my posts down if you like, all i ask is that you think about what i am saying, and do some research before you judge my opinion or my character. As i have clearly offended some people, or caused them some sort of distress/dissatisfaction, i would ask the moderaters to feel free to lock this thread if they so wish If anyone else has any questions, pm me *

Peace and love

xxx

This is fair enough. However I have responded to your post in such away because whether intending to or not, you are forcing your opinion on people, you are intentionally going out of your way to start debates and get people backs up. This is not the only post in which you have done so. We get it, you do not agree with 'the establishment' or even the fact that it exists at all and it is all fictional. You do not need to post it in multiple topics across what is a HUSKY FORUM not a debate forum. If you want a debate I suggest you find one of those.

i would ask the moderaters to feel free to lock this thread if they so wish

Do not need your permission thankyou.