LEASHLESS HELP

[ShadowandNikittasMum]

Aimee you were annoyed with my post

the only reason i said what i did was my aunt re-homed one of her beloved husky pups to someone who wanted an off lead dog (she didn't know until she got updates)

he was determined that his sibe would be an off lead dog.

Where's that dog now? Running over the rainbow bridge because she ran off after something on an off lead walk and got hit by a lorry she was 11 months old

I said what I did because im fed up of people thinking they could change a huskies instincts so that they could be 100% off lead

that's all, my aunt's still in pieces about it

[Lil Miss Bump]

i can understand that-it was just the way it came across was very sharp. x

[KSNS]

Dogs off leash will not only depends on you an ability to train but also the dogs personality. Some are just not ment to be ofleash you have a husky a working dog they were breed to run an that is exatly what they will do 90% of the time

Long leads do not count with recall because they are not off leash.

Sounds like you have a natural born runner easily distracted an highly playfull but that can change mostly with age. You need to find some thing that will keep her attention even when in busy surroundings dog classes are as distracting as it gets she will want to play with every one and everything huskies are not loyal dogs at best of times any one and anything for attention an chance to play

Use only enclosed spaces to try an train but need a big space to see if she will recall even then.

Coming back to you has to be a game so she would enjoy coming back not just prance about you an run of again there is loads to take in. I hate the whole idea of shock collars people trained dogs 100's years with out them why do it now.

oh and a garden does not count for recal training unless you have access to some one elses garden as they know their surroundings you need to try them in new area where they will have temptation to not come back an see how they react hide an seek is good way to train recall make them look for you shouting ,raising voice,panicking will all result in the dog running off they are not stupid do learn an know when you are gritting you're teeth an pretending to be playful. it's big gamble

[Jeff&Duke]

If I may I’d like to jump in here and some what disagree with people stating huskies aren’t an off lead dog in my opinion this is false but true in ways. Any dog can be a runner wither it’s a lab, collie, Doberman, Sheppard just to name a few. Yea those dogs mentioned are a hell of a lot easier to train and them wanting to “please†is greater, but husky shouldn’t be too far off it’s do-able. My husky has been trained off lead and I’ve done tons and tons of research and have trained him myself. I trust him off leash 199%. However, let me point out that I don’t let him off leash in busy public areas with cars zooming by or busy streets that’s just dangerous.

I used a shock collar to train him off leash and I did tons of research on this type of training method before using it. People really do get the wrong idea of training with a shock collar your not suppose to use the E-COLLAR to neither hurt the pup nor do any kind of negative behavior. It should be used just enough to as if the dog stepped on something, or flick of the ears or a slight head turn to say “What was that?†HOWEVER, you just can’t start out with an e-collar and dive head first your setting you AND your dog up for failure. My husky wore the e-collar for several months before I even used any kind of electronic stimulation (NOT SHOCK). This was for him to know that this new “collar†is a good collar we do cool things with this collar e.g walks, runs, bike runs, trips in the truck, to friends houses ect. Whenever I put the collar on Duke I made him touch it then I would use a POSITIVE marker “YES!†and put the collar on. Everything that came from the collar was positive reinforcement. First things first were finding something that Duke had an extreme drive for. I couldn’t use food as he would manipulate me for the food. He would do anything for the food, but if I didn’t have any food psshh aint going to happen. I used his rope toy which kind of looked like a squirrels tail to be honest. Whenever I had this toy out he would be all over it. So the tools:

e-collar on – Check

long lead (50-100ft) – Check

toy his prey drive – Check

Free open space without distractions - Check

Next I would attach the long lead to his collar I would then ignore him let him explore his surroundings pee, poop if he needed to lol. The whole time he doesn’t know I have this toy once he was ready I would call his name “Duke…†he’d look at me and I would say “COME!†and dangle the rope toy outwards so he would run and jump and “attack†the toy. Once he latched on the toy I would use a positive marker, which is “YES! Good COME, YES!†Next I would take the toy away and start walking. He wanted the toy still and I didn’t say anything to him but ignored him until he got side tracked and walked away. Once his attention wasn’t on me and I was 10FT+ away from him I’d call his name “Duke…†he’d look at me and I would say “COME!†and dangle the rope toy outwards he would run and jump and latch on the toy and again positive marker “YES! Good COME, YES!†After I about 5 minutes of this I would stop. You don’t want to drag out training sessions especially the first ones as they will get bored much quicker in the earlier “chapters†of training.

When I stated to actually use the e-collar was in his home environment. My collar has increments of half up to 5 (5 being the strongest stimulation) so the levels are .5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, and 5. There’s two buttons on my remote “Prick†and “Continuous.†The prick is half second stimulation and the continuous is 4 second stimulation. Most you should use is the prick nothing more. First you need to make sure the collar is on CORRECTLY. Most people don’t know how to properly put a collar on a dog. The proper fitting should be high on the next almost just below the ears. It should be tight enough to where the pins are touching the dogs skin but no POKING or DIGGING into the dogs neck that’s not correct and you can do damage to the dog. Most collars have two pins these pins must make contact or the collar will not work. Once it’s properly fit start at the lowest setting on the remote which in my case was .5 use the “prick†button and observe the dogs reaction. What you’re looking at is a flick of the ears, a head turn, a paw move as if they just stepped on something, or a + is if the dog looks at you. HOWEVER, you want the dog to be occupied with something. Make sure he/she isn’t paying any attention to you, but you’re paying attention to the dog obviously. Try the setting once and wait if there’s no reaction from the dog try 2 more times if still nothing increase your setting. Duke’s setting is 2.5 which feels like if someone where to rub there feet on carpet for a minute and shock you. Once you know the setting, immediately STOP.

Once I found his setting the next day we went out for a 10 minute training session remember keep them short and sweet but gradually increase. Had the same tools mentioned above except we are going to actually use the collar. So moving forward to when the “prick†came into play was about the 6 minute mark Duke didn’t come I instantly hit the prick button and in a negative sharp voice I sad “NO†< [Prick] < Duke’s reaction < “DUKE COME!†He immediately came and I threw a positive party of “YES! Good Come.†After I ignored him and walked away he followed for a bit but then wondered off until his attention was distracted I said “Duke… (got his attention) COME!†He came for the remainder of the training session. Do NOT use the collar if the dog comes only use it if the dog does not come.

We eventually had the training sessions longer I then ditched the toy FIRST, and then later ditched the lead. I only did that when I felt confident in the collar and that it was working. I then threw in other people as distractions, kids, and then eventually other dogs. You have to make sure the space you’re using is large this really helped in the distractions. I can happily say that I can have Duke come to me 100 yards away while he playing with a dog, and he will come straight to me without using the collar. Here’s us playing fetch

Then him hiking up at Ruth Lake

Hope I brought some light into people that don’t think its possible and that e-collar training or “shock-collar†is not a negative training tool.

Jeff

[Miya]

I think part of it comes down to the dog as well as training. Miya is great off leash. She's about 15 months old now and I've been working with her since she was 10 weeks old. I make sure to grab treats before heading out and let her know where they are. Once we're in an area away from the roads, she gets to go off leash. I let her run about 10 feet and then recall her. This is just to reinforce with her that she gets a treat for coming back. Every once in a while I arbitrarily recall her. I've never had a problem with her off leash. That said, I am cautious with where I let her off leash. She's only allowed off if we're away from the roads and if I'm comfortable with it. Every husky is different, but for Miya off leash works.

[KSNS]

While I agree with some of what you just posted an a good read it is I have to disagree on one thing while pretty much any dog can run I agree. .

But all dogs have genetic traits in what they are breed to do not always on how they are raised Huskies are working running dogs they do it instinctivly to break instinct takes work lots of it gsd's for example very loyal one owner dogs same as rotweilers ect they have genetic traits which help them be how they are.

Huskies are as stubborn as they come and highly independent this is where the challenge is and in some sibes it can not be changed the prey drive is massive in a majority of them the wanting to run is there in almost all of them it comes to indvidual dogs (personality).

This collar training argument has been on here since the dawn of the site it comes to preference end of the day some may pre-judge it others may swear by it I just dont feel need for them when from dawn of man dogs have been used an trained with out them I just feel for my self there are better methods to get the same results even if it takes a little longer to achieve the reward for me is in the hard work paying off where you can say I trained my dog un-aided as I said thou this is for me an not for all. We all do different things and a lot of it is trial and error, but is the risk of the error worth the possible loss or death of a dog and this is what people are stuck on.

Most would never take the risk which is good others are lucky enough to have areas to test an train their dogs and some people just know their dogs and the limits an stick to it a safe bet is a good bet every time

[Bec]

Jeff&duke out of curiosity, why did you ditch the toy when you started using the e-collar?

[lyra]

We all do different things and a lot of it is trial and error, but is the risk of the error worth the possible loss or death of a dog and this is what people are stuck on.

Most would never take the risk which is good others are lucky enough to have areas to test an train their dogs and some people just know their dogs and the limits an stick to it a safe bet is a good bet every time

I think that's very well said. While it is a personal choice whether to take your dog off leash or not, assuming it is legal in your area to do so, I think of it this way:

To me it simply isn't worth the risk, not only because of how much time/energy/love/money we have invested in Lyra, but also because our choices affect her in addition to us. She can't advocate for herself because she's a dog. I'm sure she would love a chance to run freely and go places without a leash, but ultimately we are responsible for her. A domestic/pet dog is completely dependent on its owners, similar to how an infant is completely dependent on his or her parents. I think part of responsible pet ownership means trying to minimize the likelihood of anything dangerous happening to your animal. Huskies are notoriously bad off leash, so I have no desire to even take the smallest chance with it.

Or as they would say in The Girl Next Door, the juice is not worth the squeeze.

[GBUCK]

wow what a great post Jeff&Duke, this is the exact instruction i need. it sums up my previous training with the shock collar and the results. probably the one thing i did wrong was i didnt let my pup get use to the collar and make it a positive comfortable thing for her. i'm going to do what your post suggests and have her toys, a long lead and my shock collar. i know her settings on the collar and i know how to use it. i really think that might work. if you could give me further instructions about how long this all took you, how old is your husky and when you started the training with her. thank you for your post.

[Bec]

Personally I wouldn't use the e-collar in the way Jeff outlined. If you want good professional instruction, gbuck, I can PM you some info on where to get it. What kind of collar do you have?

[GBUCK]

i'll take all instructions about the E-collar i would like to hear whatever methods have worked for people. i am using SportDog camo 1 mile shock collar.

[sutsibe]

well i wanna take her hiking and to the beach without her wandering. the shock collar is very helpful but like i said again i rarely have to shock her, BEC i appreciate the other shock collar opinion! haha i think i still take it a little personal too that she runs off, it makes me a little upset and i feel like it says a lot but i do know its has to do with her instinct. she obeys me in all circumstances except for off-lead 30% of the time.

i stopped the K9 class because i was running out of money haha but i loved it, i would go back if i could. dog training has become a passion for me and i have actually helped a lot of my friends with there dogs.

she likes some toys but gets bored of them quickly. the sand crabs at the beach are a little more entertaining.

One very good reason to not let her off-lead while hiking is the wildlife she may encounter. A friend who lives in Colorado was hiking with her two Siberians off-lead, and they found a porcupine - you can imagine the results! While the poor dogs were pretty miserable and had to spend time at the vets having the quills surgically removed (under anesthesia), it was very fortunate that with all the quills in their faces, they didn't end up with any in their eyes! I don't know what other wildlife you might have in your area, but keep it in mind! You might find it fun to backpack with her instead - I've done that with my dogs in the past, and we've had a great deal of fun with it. The Siberian Husky Club of America offers a Working Pack Dog Title you can earn, too, which is kind of cool (http://www.shca.org/shcahp6e.htm).

I also have had several Siberians that were close to totally reliable off-lead, and I truly believe that it's largely dependent on personality! I have several dogs that I believe I could train to be almost completely reliable, say 98%, but that 2% of doubt makes me unwilling to push it in certain situations - such as hiking in really wild areas where they might come to harm from local wildlife or in heavy traffic areas. I also have several dogs that I think would never be likely to be reliable, no matter how great a reward I had; the reward of following their instincts, chasing the squirrel, leaf or butterfly or just seeing what's beyond the horizon would be greater than any I could offer.

That said, your girl might be one that would be quite reliable off-lead, especially as you work with her and build your partnership with her through your various training exercises. I would suggest you might want to try doing agility work with her, which will likely reinforce working off-lead at a near distance but generally (here in the US in my experience) in an enclosed area to begin with. Agility is a sport that most dogs really enjoy, and Siberians who will work off-lead and listen can really excel in it! It will build your working relationship with your dog - you'll find that moving your body just a tiny bit - one shoulder tilted forward, for example - is enough to send her in the direction that shoulder pointed! The physical and mental activity provided by agility is also good for draining and focussing excess energy, and after a good training session, you might find her more willing to work off-lead reliably with you!

The way I've trained my dogs to be off-lead involves something similar to the 100 foot leash. You buy a 50-100 foot length of thin, very strong cord (like the cord in a Flexi-lead), and cut a piece off that's about 8"-12" long, double it over and knot it so it forms a loop. You can pull the loop through the ring on the dog's collar, and pull the knotted end through the loop, so that it's attached to the ring. You then have a short "handle" on the collar, a "tab", it's called. Take the remaining length of rope and tie knots in it every couple of feet, and tie it to the tab (use a knot that you can easily untie!), and let the dog drag it. STEP on the rope, DO NOT grab it!!! Once you have the dog stopped, you can pick up the rope, but if you grab it, you will have a horrible rope burn!! Over time - slowly - gradually shorten the length of the trailing rope, putting the dog in situations where it will be tempted to not listen. The point of this is that it will have the opportunity to learn that you can always catch it. As the length gets shorter, you obviously need to be near enough to stop the dog, but if you are gradual enough, the dog shouldn't notice how short the rope is getting, and that you're making an effort to stay nearer - it just knows that you can use the rope to stop it from taking off! After time and work, you should be able to get to having just the tab on the collar - and the dog should be used to the idea that you will be able to stop escapes! Like anything else, it's not 100% fool=proof, but I've had success with it. (There are still a couple of Siberians I have that might continue to "test" getting away occasionally, no matter how much work I put in with this or any other method...)

[RoseWillow&Dexter]

to all those who have a 100ft lead, are they heavy to carry?? i think i might have to invest in one....ive never seen one for sale anywhere so i will go on a hunt!

[Staceybob]

I own a 9v electric collar which we got just in case we needed it when we were getting our kitten. I have tested it on myself and from what I've seen the majority of dogs that have been taught with it still have a high chance of just buggering off, and once their out of the shock range - you're screwed.

In my opinion people should just stick to traditional recall methods and accept what will be.

Stacey xxx

EDIT: Forgot to mention I also go hiking with Aleu on lead.

[kaptainkiely]

i have mine off lead very very rarely now due to his prey drive seeming to increase all the time its really not worth it with sibes i have another dog that is amazing off lead so much she never wears it but you can never fully trust a husky to return to you i used to have huge supply of cheese and fresh meat to distract his attention which only works for so long.

it was nix on this forum who advised me to get 100ft leads from ebay since then mine loves it gives him a great chance to run with fear of losing him.

my advice is to give up trying to work on off lead training with yours. if was stubborn as a pup it wont get any better with age

great photo by the way

[Staceybob]

I would love a 100ft lead but I'm worried about getting tangled up lol. Sure would beat the 16ft lead she's got though.

Stacey xxx

[Bec]

I own a 9v electric collar which we got just in case we needed it when we were getting our kitten. I have tested it on myself and from what I've seen the majority of dogs that have been taught with it still have a high chance of just buggering off, and once their out of the shock range - you're screwed.

Keeping in mind that there is a HUGE difference between cheap and nasty collars and proper e-collars that will cost you upwards of $400...

I've not met any dog that has been trained PROPERLY on an e-collar that had anything other than a totally reliable recall, a good quality collar will work up to distances around 800m, that's a long way for the dog to get out of the range of the collar.

In my opinion people should just stick to traditional recall methods and accept what will be.

What do you class as "traditional recall methods"??

[Sid_Wolf]

stacey you can get 30 & 50ft ones aswell, we have a 30ft

[Staceybob]

Keeping in mind that there is a HUGE difference between cheap and nasty collars

What do you class as "traditional recall methods"??

O.o I took that quite offensively towards the product I've actually brought. Just because it's not an "E-Collar" doesn't mean it's a pile of crap. And Becs, please don't type LIKE THIS at me. There's just no need when all I am doing is sharing a contrasting opinion from someone else with experience with shock collars.

And by traditional, I mean a long line, a call or a clicker with a massive reward of either play or treats. I have personally found that shock collars just give more of a negative effect where as to encourage dogs to do things I think it should be postively motivated.

And Sid, have you got any videos of your dogs on one? Just want to see how much freedom they're getting with one that size.

Stacey xxx

[Kells xx]

O.o I took that quite offensively towards the product I've actually brought. Just because it's not an "E-Collar" doesn't mean it's a pile of crap. And Becs, please don't type LIKE THIS at me. There's just no need when all I am doing is sharing a contrasting opinion from someone else with experience with shock collars.

And by traditional, I mean a long line, a call or a clicker with a massive reward of either play or treats. I have personally found that shock collars just give more of a negative effect where as to encourage dogs to do things I think it should be postively motivated.

And Sid, have you got any videos of your dogs on one? Just want to see how much freedom they're getting with one that size.

Stacey xxx

hey stacey

the 100ft leads are terrible for getting tangled...we use a 60ft retractable attached to a 50ft long line when darwin gets a run around.....plenty of run space and is safe...

clickers can work great...

i use the clicker and a high pitched noise for encouraging the dogs...

hope you find something that works for you hun xxx

[Staceybob]

Wow where did you get a 60Ft Retractable??

Stacey xxx

[Sid_Wolf]

No i havent sorry hun, will try and get one soon though, it is a lot but not so much its hard to control iyswim

[BingBlaze n Skyla]

not heavy - and mine have got tangled a couple of times - but doesnt take long to untangle them - the only reason mine get tangled is because when im finished i dont put it away properly i just shove it into my bag n dont care

when i HAVE put it away properly its never gotten tangled

[Kells xx]

Wow where did you get a 60Ft Retractable??

Stacey xxx

um..ill have to ask my dad.... he got it!!

will pm you when i know hun x

ok he says its 26ft!!!!!

someone needs to make a longer one

[Staceybob]

I would love a longer one but then I wonder how big it would be XD Got to be better than having dangling leads though.

Stacey xxx